</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by FYRARMS:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1LT1:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ls1cam:
<strong>To answer the first question under 25,000. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just for comparison's sake, a '98 or '99 LS1 F-body goes for under $14k right now (and newer than 1994 obviously) leaving one with potentially over $10k in cash before the modding even begins.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You get what you pay for. Add the cost for a bulletproof transmission, bulletproof rearend, and a 4-piston brake kit. Now the used LS1 will be on even ground with the stock Supra...costwise, too. Also, stock Supra shortblocks have held over 900rwhp.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, a possible good point there but we hear this a lot and I've often wondered....are these allegedly bulletproof parts put through the same stresses and rigorous launches week after week, dragstrip pass after dragstrip pass to get that title or do they make a couple quick passes per year, a few highway runs maybe and then entered into car shows the rest of the time? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Same goes for that 900hp capability....is that constant, all day for hours on end, or STRICTLY for temporary, turn of a boost ****, race gas only, short bursts?
Keep those things in mind when trying to point out some supposed shortcomings of an LS1 F-body, and do consider just how many hard high hp/tq, low 60 foot launches those trannys and rears go through before they give in.

 

I went to BullishRacing's site, but the quickest Supra they mentioned only ran 9.56@150.7, and that one broke in the 1st round... Idonno where those 6 second passes at almost 200mph are. There were no results available for 2002. But then, I can't see them knocking off over 3 seconds in one season. There were pics of the tube chassis Solara's but, no indications of their ET's, just the 1000hp thing...And it said the car was unvieled in April of this year.

They did mention a Focus running mid 7.60's@175, a mere 7 tenths and 25mph from 6's&200mph itself. Oh and it's a RWD... Think it's got a stock block? heh

One thing I find weird is those cars almost always seem to run really high mph to match the ET of American V8's... There are reasons for that and RWD cars help even it out. Anyway, when I see a Mustang (for instance) Pro5.0 car run 6.90's, I usually see 198-202mph speeds with it. How could these 6cyl. cars manage the same ET's at less mph? If there's a 6 second import, it's one I haven't heard of. I did hear that Matt Scranton was the 1st to break the 200mph barrier and he ran low 7's in doing so. He also used a V8.

Bullish states they're making over 1000hp... That's hardly enough to run 7's, much less 6's(2000hp). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

 

Bulloish racing 2 soloras r running low 7,s maybe 6's. But look at hks racng cars and look at there drag cars 180 sx 4cyl., sk;line, etc

 

Man I thought this was LS1Tech.com?? civics and integra's are <img border="0" alt="[gay]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_rainbow.gif" /> Let's talk about American V-8's as is the point of this website. If you like weak little imports like civics and integras, well thats your thing, but go else where to talk about them. I should mention though, that Supra's are due some respect.

<small>[ December 16, 2002, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: VTStang ]</small>

 

The first import in the 6's was Venom Performance's Pro Class Tundra using a Supra 2JZ-GTE engine. It happened right here in IL at Rt.66 Dragway.

Bullish Racing has 2 Solara's also using 2JZ-GTE engines. One of the cars broke in to the 6's. The other still is running 7.0's.

Any factory LS1 blocks running in the 6's? Any C5R blocks? I didn't think so.

As far as the reliability issue is concerned, there are quite a few 800+rwhp Supras that drag/road race every weekend, and are driven daily. Visit Supraforums, as most of the owners are on the site regularly.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by FYRARMS:
<strong>As far as the reliability issue is concerned, there are quite a few 800+rwhp Supras that drag/road race every weekend, and are driven daily. Visit Supraforums, as most of the owners are on the site regularly.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And you're trying to tell us that those very same cars (ie: 800rwhp, raced hard constantly) NEVER break transmissions/clutches or rears?
And once again, are they 800hp ALL the time, or just during short spurts on the dyno?
I mean, a 200 shot might make a daily driven 400hp car into a 600hp car temporarily, but I certainly wouldn't call it a daily driven 600hp car. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1LT1:
<strong>And you're trying to tell us that those very same cars (ie: 800rwhp, raced hard constantly) NEVER break transmissions/clutches or rears?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course I'm not. However, the chances of one of them breaking is a LOT less than an F-body making similar power using the factory transmission, block, and rearend (which, of course, there is no such thing).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>And once again, are they 800hp ALL the time, or just during short spurts on the dyno?
I mean, a 200 shot might make a daily driven 400hp car into a 600hp car temporarily, but I certainly wouldn't call it a daily driven 600hp car. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Any time the car is operating on race gas and it's high boost setting, it will be at it's maximum horsepower level. There is no car that operates at it's maximum horsepower level ALL of the time. That would be a bit hard on the brakes in traffic... <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

<small>[ December 16, 2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: FYRARMS ]</small>

 

vw paradise rail has been running 6.80's for a couple years now with an air cooled vw 4 cylinder. supras run good if you stick a gm powerglide in em <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> btw, you ever notice that "all those videos" you see of supras beating everything else is from a 100mph bpu+++++ highway race? they run good strapped to a dyno or at twice the speed limit on the highway thats about it.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by hondakiller:
<strong>you ever notice that "all those videos" you see of supras beating everything else is from a 100mph bpu+++++ highway race? they run good strapped to a dyno or at twice the speed limit on the highway thats about it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Uh-huh. Here ya go, sport:

http://www.racingflix.com/downloadvideo.asp?v=96

 

This thread has some good moments, I like Sean's recount of his 'Teg buildup.

My GF has a 95 VTec, I think if I ran 7psi on it, I would lose the clutch in about an hour of driving. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

I'm pretty sure after a month of running around with say 12 psi the car would be coming apart and would need a new engine, that's if I didn't crash from losing the CV joints or transaxle.

We are all smart, we all know cars like that are not gonna hold up with 300hp to the wheels.

Lately my thing is to race Civics and other sticker'd, spoiler'd, body kit'd monstrosties with the 99 Tahoe and put a car or two on them from a roll... it's ugly. My old 88 Comanche P/U with the T5 and 3.42's would walk a stock civic. :

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by hondakiller:
<strong>and how did we get to single turbo supras from ricers? those are two different categories.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well yes and no, that raises another interesting debate. Let's say you have a mechanically bone stock Supra TT (or even an NA one, or even a highly modded single turbo) that has ALL the full riceboy memorabilia tacked on it, underbody neon lighting, park bench wing, shiny chrome 22s, DVD/CD/TV/PS2, Asian lettering/GReddy stickers all over it etc.....is that not also a ricer? <img border="0" alt="[pimp]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_pimp.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by FYRARMS:
<strong>Any time the car is operating on race gas and it's high boost setting, it will be at it's maximum horsepower level.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So you are admitting that just like a car with nitrous, these cars you speak of are usually not generating 800hp/900hp ALL the time. Ok, just checking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

I'm not sure who ran 6's first. I was able to find 4 imports recording NHRA certified 6's... The quickest I found was Matt Scranton, with a 6.89@202, next was George (Bullish), with a 6.939@196 and they list the other Bullishracing car having run a 6.98. Two of the four I found were using V8 power, and the quickest is one of those. It dawned on me why these cars may run very high 6's and not go over 200mph... They're only required to weigh 2200 lbs. and are apparently allowed multiple power adders and methonal as a fuel. I can't say I'm sure about the rules though....Not my thAng...

The HKS car uses a 2.8L engine, but hasn't run 6's yet, apparently.

Quickest 4 cyl record holder is none other than, John Lingenfelter (ya hearda him?), who's gone 7.08 in his Ecotec turbo Cavalier.

Any way you look at it, as good as some of these cars look and run, there's no replacement for displacement if you want to have the quickest, fastest car in drag racing. Call me crazy but... If you had LS1 cars only weighing 2200 lbs and using methanol, and/or dual power adders, I think you'd see 6's pretty regularly. And the 351W based, single power adder engines used in Pro5.0 have already run 6.40's... TWO power adders, or even a twin turbo would be unreal. Some of these Mustang guys ar knocin' HARD on the door of 6's with 10.5" tires and no tubs, at much more than 2200 lbs.

BTW, it looks like there's a 3.0L (Jaguar) Mercury Cougar in the 7.0's, which kinda surprized me. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

I would like to say a few things. One, I love imports and domestics. Both are great in their own ways. Domestics are fast, no doubt about it. They are made for going fast and have large engines. Imports are generally slow, however there are some out there that would take out the ocasional camaro. Imports and domestics are of 2 different worlds.

Import owners generally focus on looks. It's an art for them. They want to express themselves through something that they are seen in daily (although many don't have the artistic talent ie. fat wings and stickers, but the same goes for painters as well). Domestic car owners usually want one thing, speed (although some are following the import scene now days)

Most people who tune imports (mechanically) do it for the sole purpose of proving that their cars can beat big v8's and what-not. There really isn't a better fealing than stomping on a guy twice your size in a fight, right? Well it goes for cars as well. To be able to kick v8 *** with a 4 banger, that really proves something.

Yes it is more expensive to make lots of power from a 4-cylinder, and yes it would be wiser to chose a bigger motor for racing, but you have to admit it's more fun to be the underdog right?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LS1LT1:
[QB][ Let's say you have a mechanically bone stock Supra TT (or even an NA one, or even a highly modded single turbo) that has ALL the full riceboy memorabilia tacked on it, underbody neon lighting, park bench wing, shiny chrome 22s, DVD/CD/TV/PS2, Asian lettering/GReddy stickers all over it etc.....is that not also a ricer?

lol no thats just bad taste. being a ricer is putting those greddy stickers on your car with no greddy parts on it. neons and huge wings are just horrible taste not technically "rice". but since it seems that ricers are also the ones with bad taste they do kinda go hand in hand.

also i agree with the post above mine too about imports going for looks rather than speed most of the time. beating a v8 with ten times the money invested in a stripped out trailered honda with a turbo and motor swap isnt really being the underdog though. its racing a race car with a tiny motor that can keep up for decently quick street cars. ive seen civic hatchbacks come off the trailer with no interior and spray their way to 12's. if thats what import racing is all about ill stick to my "low-tech" v8's. besides you can also turbo or spray the v8 and your motor is still bigger <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>I have heard of some NA Hondas going into the 13's.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Johnny, there are actually faster NA Honduhs than that. There are a few low-12 second NA cars roaming the streets. However, at that point they don't look too much like a street car...

 

Actually, there are faster Hondas than that. There are some running high 10's at over 123mph.

 

I just wanted to say that I like both imports and domestics. I happen to have both. I have a 00' civic si and 00' camaro ss. Both are heavily modded and my camaro is much faster. I work at a honda performance shop and have tuned many street honda's to around 325-350hp on pump gas. Most of the cars are daily driven running 1-1.3 bar. I went to Budds Creek for the import vs domestic race and imports completely dominated the street renagade class. There where many street civic's running 10.4-10.9 in the 1/4. I also have friends with stock bottom end (with exception for a head gasket) honda's running mid to low 11's with full interior on slicks. I dont think it should matter import or domestic if it has power and is fast I like it.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 25psi:
<strong>Actually, there are faster Hondas than that. There are some running high 10's at over 123mph.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually there are even faster ones than that. You can check them out at this site.
Click Here!!!
Personally I have a NA Honda Civic ex that runs low 6's in the 1/4 with traps over 250 mph. It also uses the stock block, heads, cams, and all the internals are stock too. I'm a bit suprized that I got this $11,000 car to run over 250 mph in the 1/4 so I got it dyno'd at the local dyno shop. The 1.8L 4 banger put out 270 HP TO THE WHEELS!!! (front wheels of course) I also have a stock mustang. I drove out of the dealership the day I bought it and took it straight down to the track. My first pass was done at 5.2 sec @ 314 mph That was with a little wheel spin. By the end of the day I was able to shave it down to a 4.9 @ 316 mph. Not bad for a car with 20 miles on the odometer.
Well if any of you guys don't believe me you can check out all the facts at this site.

<img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> Click Here!!!

<small>[ December 17, 2002, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: mlambrecht82 ]</small>

 

fastest all motor honda runs 10.60's but its a tube frame race car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

they dominated the street class running high 10's? i guess no domestics decided to show up <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> . last i checked the fastest street legal domestic was running somewhere in the 8's.

edited again to show my sig. im slow but still fast enough to make fun of 99 percent of ricers.

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: hondakiller ]</small>

 

hondakiller: Out of curiosity, what do you drive? What is your best ET?