I have wasted 14K on parts alone on this car and im having trouble finding any more $$ to waste. I would LOVE to have someone verify that it is what it is, but I just cant risk losing more $ on this car. I have gotten my dad to consent to loan me $1-200 (im a bit short) on a new double pumper if thats what the tech guy thats going to look at it says I need, other than that. I am out of $$ and means to poke and prod.

 

I went carb b/c EFI was terrible. It wouldnt idle and it surged and had a whole mess of problems. THe car with me and 11 gallons of gas is 3540# DOT verified.
Dyno #'s. I am expecting 190whp or so.

Track experience zero, but the 1/8 mile was 9.3?@76 and the 1/4 was 14.4?@97(almost 98) and so I think from the 1/8 to the 1/4 it shows the car is just slow, its not me. I know someone could prolly get a 14.0@99 out of it, but still, im not impressed.

I would love to see this car in the 12's too, but i doubt its going to happen guys, maybe with an LSX car I could be there, mustangs just arent the way

I would like to see

 

if u never see it then go to a track more often. i saw a 302 5.0 run mid 14s with intake/exhaust. and yes i knew the guy and looked at the car afterwards

 

I suppose. Who knows. Perhapse my combination cancels itself out somehow. THe calculator said that I had 257 whp. My race weight was around 3500 that day and I trapped 97.8? as I recall. I smell the thing in my cloths, everywhere, Maybe the secondaries are rich and can be leaned down.

I took a trip and smelled it all in my cloths (which traveled in the hatch back area) the next day when I dressed. I think this is a sign of running a bit rich? or just having no emmisions and dumping pre-axle? I dont know. The carb tuner guy should let me know something and if it can be leaned out that would help maybe?

 

I had to register to ask...

WHy are you using an X303 camshaft with that combo? That cam is way too large for GT-40 heads. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the sole reason your combo is unusually slow. That camshaft's peak torque doesn't hit til 3600RPM and it's peak HP is reached at 6200RPM. You aren't even revving the engine high enough for the cam's full potential to be realized. It's too radical a cam for what is basically a mild combo.

It's not that N/A 302's are slow...it's that your combo is slow. I was running those same times as you with my stock motor. A set of GT-40's and a TFS stage 1 cam put me into the mid 13's...with an AOD. Every car i have put gt-40's on has been solid 13's and trapping over 101MPH in the quarter. A friend of mine is even running low 13's with GT-40P's a B303 cam, Cobra intake and 65MM TB and supporting bolt-ons and other mods. He traps 106MPH.

Also why did you ditch the EFI? A tuner could have easily tuned the car to it's potential by modifying fuel curves. If it ran terrible with the EFI that should have been a sign that something was wrong. Converting to carb just made troubleshooting a lot harder.

 

this is what i'm thinking. running the fuel injection and running like ****, you were probably running RICH AS ****! i bet you're practically flooded. the carburator just masked the symptoms. if you switch back to EFI and get it tuned, i bet not only will you pick up a full second plus in the quarter mile, you'll pick up mpg as well. something is seriously wrong here and i'm damn near POSITIVE you're running ultra-rich.

 

Allright first off the x cam with gt-40 heads? Good luck. The cam is way too big for those heads. I'd only consider using TFS Heads or if you wanted to spring the extra cash, like you've needlessly already have, go with AFR's. With such a huge cam I'm suprised you don't have valvetrain issues. Next, GT-40's are a pretty decent head it just depends upon your application. Don't expect to run bloody 12's on them. I definitly fail to see why your not churning up better numbers with all the money you've invested you, not the car, are definitly doing something wrong when a 302 with ported GT-40 heads, GT-40 intake and a couple of bolt ons runs mid 13's easy. Now I'm a lover of great wrench work but maybe you should go to LS1's they come with more power from the factory, call it a handicap just for you. Leave the 302's to people who know how to make power out of them. Hope you can get your malfuntion resolved soon.

 

I could feel the emotion

 

I've seen too many stock cubed 5.0's in the 13's to know there's something wrong with your setup.

 

I'm with everyone else. My uncle has three 5.0s ranging from an 88 to a (i think 95) that are all under 12.4. They all have superchargers, but over 2 seconds in the 1/4 is alot. He was trying to sell me the 90 Boss 5.0 that ran consistant 11.4s with the bad air in Lubbock, TX and Hobbs, NM and was still street legal. It is a 5 speed with 3.73s (I believe) but I have never liked Fords since my 1st 2 vehicles were POS Fords. I should be home Wednesday and I will go ask him what he thinks of your mods and if he has any suggestions. He has built nothing but 5.0 Mustangs for the past 7 years. His fastest was running low 10's last I heard. Also gives me a reason to see what my car will do against a fully ported and polished 347 with a Kenne Belle (the 95 street car).

 

I know nothing about mustang builds but it looks like everyone is saying your came is what is killing your power. I have stood beside and raced his car car many times and it sounds very mean. I guess mean sounding doesnt always make power. So basically he needs to either replace the heads or the cam.

 

Have you done a leakdown test on all of the cylinders? I had an 89 Iroc fully modded with AFR's and 219 Lingenfelter, headers, etc that only put out 258rwhp about 80rwhp short of everyone else with that combo. Turned out that the rings never seated on half of the cylinders, probably from running overly rich during the break-in period. Oh yeah, I checked the compression on all cylinders on that engine and they checked out to be within spec for that cam. Don't pay attention to the compression check numbers and DO a leakdown test if you suspect an engine problem.

 

Alright, I had to come here and remark. I hate that this is my first post, but I guess I dont belong to this site (I belong to a few Fbody ones). I have to say this, why give up on your first outing? I realize you have a lot of money into the car, but it sounds like with some fine tuning it WILL run the number. I agree with the cam thing, and will say in this day and age, why even use an alphabet cam? Run something better, make sure the valve train components are all on the same page, and the car will wake right up. Also those heads might not be the best, but with some work to them, that cam I mentioned before, and all the necessary hardware, the car should go deep 12s, and even 11s on a sticky tire with some good driving...

I personally run mid 12s with E7 heads (no porting, but GT40 valves and a good valve job), stock cam, stock bottem end, as well as stock injectors, stock suspension, and very little weight reduction. The 91 in my sig runs low 12s with GT40 Ps, stock cam, stock bottem end, and bolt ons.

Being frustrated is one thing, it takes time to go fast. But to say Mustangs suck, and you dont believe times because you didnt run well one day, is kind of uncalled for. The 91 in my sig ran 13.0s its first time out. With that same motor combo went 12.11 @ 110 a year or so later, with nothing more than tuning, driving, and a few small changes. I say stick with it, your not getting that money back, and with a little more, you could have a fast car.

 

The combo was built by a company, much like a ford crate motor. This motor SUPPOSEDLY dyno's 290/290 whp/wtq and 5.0 magazine even did a VERY favorable writeup on this setup. With my 24# injectors, PRO-M MAF, 70mm TB, and typhoon intake, I was running quite lean, no fouling or even color on the plugs at all. The car was hanging with C5 vettes from a roll. I am thinking the 670 Vac carb is my issue, because damn sure 97.XX traps WILL NOT HANG WITHIN 1 CAR OF A C5 VETTE FROM A 50-85 ROLL RACE.
As to the car not performing with that cam, I agree, cam is big, but the valvetrain was specially designed for the cam. yes I could pick up 5-15 whp from a custom cam im sure.
No, Lonestar Dyno (Dallas, TX) told me there was nothing they could do, but for $500 they would "try" and I would be better served by a carb than by them.
Point being, I think the carb swap has hurt me because the vacuum carb just isnt doing well. I have read on a article of a 345 hp ford 302 crate motor where a Holley DP 750 did PERFECT. I am going to try this combo as my dad has just such a carb sitting in the shop. The worse that can happen is the waste of a hour's time and a rich condition and some bogging and a bit more wasted time.

Other than that, I am having one of the meanest carb tuners look at the thing.

My initial anger and dismay has passed and I am now in the "wtf why isnt it working?" stage. Because there has to be a reason for such a **** poor showing after hanging with C5's and actually pulling a Z28 A4 from 75-105. Nothing internal happened, and the only thing changed was the induction. The MSD ignition works great. I changed the oil and cranked it over with the wire off the coil so as to get the oil circulated before firing it up and my dad watched. Said fire shat all over everything ina 2" radius of the ccoil tip. Impressive.

Anyways, I apologize for the outburst and yes, my cam isnt the greatest for my heads, but my exact combo dynoed 290whp when the company dynoed it. 3500# race weight and 98 mph trap is a 250whp according to a calculator and 40 whp can be lost to partially opening secondaries, wrong jetting, etc. etc. etc. that good tuning can eliminate. I have a feeling a DP (of some size, noto sure what) will be going on the car.

Again, sry for the anger, had to vent somehow, and this messageboard is cheaper than a slug through an engine block, give me credit for anger management

 

Hrmmm, all cylinders came in within 5psi and I have no felt blowby when I remove the PCV and breather and feel over the holes, I guess its still possible, but I really dont think thats it. As stated, it hung with C5's and pulled A4 Z28 LS1's before the swap. Something is up w/ my combo I think.

 

Hit up the dyno to see what kinda numbers you are making. The more you know...the better you can troubleshoot.

What do the plugs look like?

 

i register here just to post this

even the LS1 guys are telling you something is wrong with your combo and there right

i would say that you should go back to efi for one easier to tune
and 2 way easier to trouble shoot

and 3 take it to people who know mustangs.

taking your ford to a chevy guy wont help you.

your in texas right? there are plenty of speed shops down there that do mustangs

and 3 take this over to stangnet.com

you will get more help becasue the 5.0 is what they know

our 86 5.0 uns mids 14's and that with me in it and im 14 and not knowing how to work the clutch the best yet.

you will be in the 12's after you getting your tuning problems out of the way

take it to a dyno and do base line run

get it tuned by a mustang shop take it back to the dyno and you will have much inprovement

but if your 88 is only making 190hp you got more problems then you think

in 1988 the ford mustang came with 225hp that was when it was a efi though. go bake to efi get it tuned


but first go here and get some help www.stangnet.com

 

Yeah, something is seriously wrong with your combo. If that X-cam is that wild, making all its power @ 6200 rpm and you running rich as ****, thats part of the problem. It is NOT true that "Mustangs can never be fast, etc, etc." That's bullshit and only ignorant people say that. Those Fox stangs especially, seeing as how they weigh alot less than their SN95 counterparts (and better looking IMO). Get it checked out and tuned and you should be in the upper 12s lower 13s in no time. Also, what are you launching at? Do you have sticky tires? You had better not get a Prelude over your stang.

 

I don't believe that the X-303 is your problem at all. We used to run them on unported and ported stock heads all the time with great results. Stepping up to the GT-40p heads would only be an improvement, especially considering you're running a lot more compression than stock.

It sounds more like the intake/carb, tuning, or just that you are shifting way too low for that cam. Get yourself a shift light and mount it on the steering column! The factory tach is garbage in a 5.0, you've already indicated that yours is also way off so you're just playing a guessing game with shift points.

One last point... the "mechanics" and "SERIOUS car builders" that you have been talking to sound like a bunch of retards. I wouldn't let them come within 100 feet of ANY of my cars. If you aren't comfortable doing the work or troubleshooting the car yourself, find a shop in the area that specializes in Mustangs, go to a local message board and see if you can find someone good to help you on the side, hang out at the track and find some fast Mustang guys to work on it, or something.

Your car has an excellent foundation and a good selection of parts for the long block. If you already have $14k in parts invested, what's another couple hundred to make it right?

Do you still have all of your EFI pieces? If it were me personally, I would swap them back in. Even on a stock tune you should be running circles around the current performance. You might have to play with the idle set screw to bring the idle RPMs up some so it will keep running, but that would be about it. A tune will help even more, but I'd say this swap will pick up a BOATLOAD of rwhp over where you are now (60-80 rwhp).

 

Not to pour salt in your wounds, but this doesn't exactly co-incide with the statement that all 5.0s are slow either.