BMW M6 mid to low 11sec car?
08-13-2006, 08:33 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Sprayed1998
I really hope your joking about the TQ thing, not even worth getting into. The Z06 is faster by far, it is way lighter, has just as much power, more torque, way more aeodymanic, it's not even worth discussing bro. Like i said, I know you wanna come heer and be mr. **** talker, but this one is a lost cause, just stupid.
All bs aside, I am not joking about the torque thing. I would really like for you to answer the question. Name one instance that torque has become a deciding factor in a race, where to cars make nearly the same power.
Weight is more of a factor than torque.
Tell me why a Ferrari F430 makes over 150lbft of torque less than a C6, but traps slightly higher. They weigh about the same. Tell me why an s2000 is faster than a v6 mustang. Even though the mustang makes over 100lbft of torque more. Just a simple question, not trying to start ****.
08-13-2006, 08:36 PM
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The S2000 is faster than a V6 mustang because it has more power and weights alot less. the ferrari prob has more HP than the vette, I really dunno. When me and you run and I instantly jump you 2-3 cars because of the insane TQ nitrous gives you will understand. Anyhow, im gonna go "relax" 
and watch some football, ill be on later.
and watch some football, ill be on later.
08-13-2006, 08:40 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by Sprayed1998
The S2000 is faster than a V6 mustang because it has more power and weights alot less. the ferrari prob has more HP than the vette, I really dunno. When me and you run and I instantly jump you 2-3 cars because of the insane TQ nitrous gives you will understand. Anyhow, im gonna go "relax" and watch some football, ill be on later.
and watch some football, ill be on later.Actually the F430 makes a little less than the vette.
But your answering my own question. More hp is the key, rather than more torque.
When did you jump 3-4 cars on me? Maybe it was becuase we have different powerbands and different rpms that we have to shift at.
08-13-2006, 09:04 PM
#25
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Above 5250 IMHO and expirience, its all about HP. Below that its all about torque.
Why?
Because HP is torque, with RPM taken into account.
So for your average LS1, they matter pretty equally, unless you guys are shifting at 7500.
For a car the runs past 8, it does not matter so much. Which is why a ~150lbft S2000 runs low 14s while the average ~150lbft car runs 15s or 16s or god knows what. It bounces between 6 and 9 for most of the run.
So that F430, which makes less torque, but almost as much HP, is almost as fast as a Vette. Everything I have seen shows the Vette walking the Ferrari. If the Ferrari had the same overall numbers and shape on the dyno but shifted at the same points as the Vette, it would get walked much worse despite the same numbers. But since it has that broad HP band up top its nearly as quick despite being way down on torque.
Basicly, what matters is where you are. If your over 5250, you want HP. If your below, you want torque. Big blocks dont kick *** because they have torque off idle. They rock because they have friggin psychotic midrange where they make great torque at 5 and then back it up with power from some nasty solid roller cam all the way to 7. So they are putting down serious force the whole time, and dont need to constantly shift since they can stay in each gear a long time while making power.
That is all.
Why?
Because HP is torque, with RPM taken into account.
So for your average LS1, they matter pretty equally, unless you guys are shifting at 7500.
For a car the runs past 8, it does not matter so much. Which is why a ~150lbft S2000 runs low 14s while the average ~150lbft car runs 15s or 16s or god knows what. It bounces between 6 and 9 for most of the run.
So that F430, which makes less torque, but almost as much HP, is almost as fast as a Vette. Everything I have seen shows the Vette walking the Ferrari. If the Ferrari had the same overall numbers and shape on the dyno but shifted at the same points as the Vette, it would get walked much worse despite the same numbers. But since it has that broad HP band up top its nearly as quick despite being way down on torque.
Basicly, what matters is where you are. If your over 5250, you want HP. If your below, you want torque. Big blocks dont kick *** because they have torque off idle. They rock because they have friggin psychotic midrange where they make great torque at 5 and then back it up with power from some nasty solid roller cam all the way to 7. So they are putting down serious force the whole time, and dont need to constantly shift since they can stay in each gear a long time while making power.
That is all.
08-13-2006, 09:14 PM
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Exactly^^^ So everyone in this thread shutup.
1) The M6 is not a 11 second car.
2) It will not beat a C6 Z06
3) Torque does matter
4) If 2 cars weight the same, with the same everything, same hp, and one has more torque, the car with more torque will win.
5) This thread is gay.
1) The M6 is not a 11 second car.
2) It will not beat a C6 Z06
3) Torque does matter
4) If 2 cars weight the same, with the same everything, same hp, and one has more torque, the car with more torque will win.
5) This thread is gay.
08-13-2006, 09:22 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by LSINA7
Exactly^^^ So everyone in this thread shutup.
1) The M6 is not a 11 second car.
2) It will not beat a C6 Z06
3) Torque does matter
4) If 2 cars weight the same, with the same everything, same hp, and one has more torque, the car with more torque will win.
5) This thread is gay.
1) The M6 is not a 11 second car.
2) It will not beat a C6 Z06
3) Torque does matter
4) If 2 cars weight the same, with the same everything, same hp, and one has more torque, the car with more torque will win.
5) This thread is gay.
08-13-2006, 09:23 PM
#28
Originally Posted by LSINA7
Exactly^^^ So everyone in this thread shutup.
1) The M6 is not a 11 second car.
2) It will not beat a C6 Z06
3) Torque does matter
4) If 2 cars weight the same, with the same everything, same hp, and one has more torque, the car with more torque will win.
5) This thread is gay.
1) The M6 is not a 11 second car.
2) It will not beat a C6 Z06
3) Torque does matter
4) If 2 cars weight the same, with the same everything, same hp, and one has more torque, the car with more torque will win.
5) This thread is gay.
08-13-2006, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 25psi
I make almost 100lbft of torque more than you(480 something at 8psi).
08-13-2006, 09:42 PM
#30
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My brain tells me that if you take one car with 500HP/380TQ that weights 4000 pounds with a driver (3750 at BMW.com) and take it against a car that has 500/500 and weights 3300 with a driver the lighter car is gonna win. And thats not even mentioning the MASSIVE aerodynamics advantage the Z06 has. If you think anything else you are 1.) Stupid or 2.) Just trying to start **** and doing a **** poor job of it.
08-14-2006, 12:22 AM
#33
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You guy's are missing one incredible simple detail here. You're outstanding gear ratio's that mate so very well with your engines.
Given, if the vehicles are exactly the same in every aspect, except tq and gearing, guess who wins? The one with more tq and a better 1st and 2nd gear ratio.
Oh, and one more thing, 5-800 lbs difference is a HUGE deciding factor at almost any speed. I will not arque on this, it is stupid to think otherwise.
Given, if the vehicles are exactly the same in every aspect, except tq and gearing, guess who wins? The one with more tq and a better 1st and 2nd gear ratio.
Oh, and one more thing, 5-800 lbs difference is a HUGE deciding factor at almost any speed. I will not arque on this, it is stupid to think otherwise.
08-14-2006, 12:40 AM
#34
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horsepower = mep x displcement x rpm / 792,00
torque = mep x displacement / 150.8
mep = hp x 792,000 / displacement x rpm
Three ways to increase hp/tq... displacement, rpm, and cylinder pressure basically. You set up your gears and tranny around your tq numbers because in the real world tq is the force that gets you off the line.
An example would be a grand national or a turbo fox 5.0 running a stock motor. They will peak out on hp under or around 5200 rpms but have huge tq numbers. Gear it right and your fast. Like 370hp and 550tq running solid 10's fast. So yeah....why am I wasting my time explaining this?
torque = mep x displacement / 150.8
mep = hp x 792,000 / displacement x rpm
Three ways to increase hp/tq... displacement, rpm, and cylinder pressure basically. You set up your gears and tranny around your tq numbers because in the real world tq is the force that gets you off the line.
An example would be a grand national or a turbo fox 5.0 running a stock motor. They will peak out on hp under or around 5200 rpms but have huge tq numbers. Gear it right and your fast. Like 370hp and 550tq running solid 10's fast. So yeah....why am I wasting my time explaining this?
08-14-2006, 12:49 AM
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Because on a roller dyno, your tq #'s are a subsequent factor of your actual hp. Your hp determines your tq #'s, basic physics.
Only reason either of us are wasting our time is because we have nothing better to do right now...
Only reason either of us are wasting our time is because we have nothing better to do right now...
08-14-2006, 08:42 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by Sprayed1998
Durrrr, watch the vid man. You jump me on every race because of your TQ!!! Unless you were just leaving early you tell me? Your TQ got you up in your powerband quicker than mine did, causing you to pull me off the bat, my powerband and HP were what pulled me by you. From 5500-6800rpm's my car is pulling like a freight train.
It wasnt your mid range power, more of my boost leak that enabled you to pull(sometimes). Didnt you remeber me telling you that, I would not be able to run you past certain speeds, due to my stock injectors and my egt readings. Talk to your boy Hassan, hell tell ya.
You guys still havent answered my questions. Since when has two identical cars been decided on torque? Ford GT has more torque as well as the Viper, but still gets pulled on by the Z06!
Torque only measures where hp will end up. Horsepower is a measurement of work and torque is defined as being a rotational force. I would rather have torque in higher rpm's with a linear curve than peak hp down low. What if you had an engine that made 10,000ft/lbs of torque easily. But it ran at 1rpm. (10000ft/lbs * 1rpm) / 5252 = 1.904 hp. I would love to see you try and a tractor through the quarter mile.
Heres an example:
(3 ft/lb of torque @ 2 RPM) / 5252 = .0011424 HP
(1 ft/lb of torque @ 8 RPM) /5252 = .0015232 hp
Which is bigger?
08-14-2006, 09:25 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by 25psi
It wasnt your mid range power, more of my boost leak that enabled you to pull(sometimes). Didnt you remeber me telling you that, I would not be able to run you past certain speeds, due to my stock injectors and my egt readings. Talk to your boy Hassan, hell tell ya.
You guys still havent answered my questions. Since when has two identical cars been decided on torque? Ford GT has more torque as well as the Viper, but still gets pulled on by the Z06!
Torque only measures where hp will end up. Horsepower is a measurement of work and torque is defined as being a rotational force. I would rather have torque in higher rpm's with a linear curve than peak hp down low. What if you had an engine that made 10,000ft/lbs of torque easily. But it ran at 1rpm. (10000ft/lbs * 1rpm) / 5252 = 1.904 hp. I would love to see you try and a tractor through the quarter mile.
Heres an example:
(3 ft/lb of torque @ 2 RPM) / 5252 = .0011424 HP
(1 ft/lb of torque @ 8 RPM) /5252 = .0015232 hp
Which is bigger?
You guys still havent answered my questions. Since when has two identical cars been decided on torque? Ford GT has more torque as well as the Viper, but still gets pulled on by the Z06!
Torque only measures where hp will end up. Horsepower is a measurement of work and torque is defined as being a rotational force. I would rather have torque in higher rpm's with a linear curve than peak hp down low. What if you had an engine that made 10,000ft/lbs of torque easily. But it ran at 1rpm. (10000ft/lbs * 1rpm) / 5252 = 1.904 hp. I would love to see you try and a tractor through the quarter mile.
Heres an example:
(3 ft/lb of torque @ 2 RPM) / 5252 = .0011424 HP
(1 ft/lb of torque @ 8 RPM) /5252 = .0015232 hp
Which is bigger?
08-14-2006, 10:01 AM
#38
Tech Resident
Originally Posted by 25psi
It wasnt your mid range power, more of my boost leak that enabled you to pull(sometimes). Didnt you remeber me telling you that, I would not be able to run you past certain speeds, due to my stock injectors and my egt readings.
i'm not saying you're lying, i'm saying "run what you brung". ricer excuses =
08-14-2006, 10:24 AM
#39
Originally Posted by LSINA7
Exactly^^^ So everyone in this thread shutup.
1) The M6 is not a 11 second car.
2) It will not beat a C6 Z06
3) Torque does matter
4) If 2 cars weight the same, with the same everything, same hp, and one has more torque, the car with more torque will win.
5) This thread is gay.
1) The M6 is not a 11 second car.
2) It will not beat a C6 Z06
3) Torque does matter
4) If 2 cars weight the same, with the same everything, same hp, and one has more torque, the car with more torque will win.
5) This thread is gay.
Wow! A first?