OK, that's cool. Thanks for the reply. BTW, it does NOT take too much to get those things ('stangs) to go left and right VERY well!

 

yep, was behind a dark grey evo IX today, single lane and he kept goosing it lmao
but I gotta say I find them Fugly (same w/ the triangle grill versions of the WRX - awful)

put that techno badness into a sweet little eclipse

 

Your looking for a epic battle where there is none. I dont deify **** and you know it. My car was made in the US by a US company. My next car will be an LS1. Call me a fanboy all you want. I am not the one leading a crusade against anything that does not worship one type of car. You are. So whos the fanboy? I love how on here some people call me an import guy and on import boards they will call me a domestic guy. Never ceases to make me laugh.

I guess you are just so "sick and tired" (your having a ball, so am I and we both know it. So dont pout about being all angry.) We should all just bury our heads in the sand and say that outright performance/dollar is the only real important thing. Its not. Thats all he said. If you cant handle it, move to North Korea. People dont speak their minds there very much. It'll be more comfortable.

And who the hell mentioned any interior aspects at all? I missed that I guess. I sure as hell did not.

Your still waiting for your answer because we all agree with what you are saying. Do you get that? We already know the F-Body is about the best combo of attributes for a fast economical new-model street car in most peoples cases. I dont get what your point is at all. So everyone should only drive 98-02 F-Bodies? That would suck.

 

First off, I am NOT looking for an "epic battle". It just always seems to turn into that when we get into economic/trade issues, which, yes, we should try to avoid. But in my case that is almost impossible to do since that is the ONLY reason (unlike almost everyone else on here) I would/could NEVER own/buy (even used) an import nameplate vehicle. IF some of the imports out there were made here by a truely FULL U.S. based and headquartered company, with U.S. supplied/sourced/manufactured parts, then I would have NO problem owning/driving them. But then they wouldn't be imports/import nameplates, would they?? Of course you will now turn around and say that your DSM fits this bill and is more "American" than my Z28. Somehow I don't think DSM is THAT autonomous from Mitsu in Japan, are they?? They don't/didn't have to answer to them at all?! NONE of their profits ever went back to Kyoto (or wherever Mitsu is HQed)?? Then they are NOT a U.S. company. Granted, they are the absolute BEST of the "transplants" in that regard, but still NOT really American.

Next, I apologize if you are not one of those that deify certain imports over EVERYTHING else out there (we all know which one(s) I'm talking about). I guess I mistook you for the majority of this board (including domestic owners) that states these rides just CANNOT be beaten in ANY race/circumstance/situation, NO MATTER WHAT. Also, I never directly called you a "fanboy", that was aimed at those who truely are, to the point of HATING domestic V-8s because they think that they are pure s***, solely for being domestic (there's that econ/trade thing again ). See where I'm coming from?? Neither am I a one make/model "fanboy". I love various Mustangs/Ford GT as much as I do f bodies, and I'll take a Vette (especially a new Z06) over almost ANYTHING else on the planet! So, I will own up to being a "domestic fanboy", again solely due to econ/trade issues, NOT (like most of the others on here) due to "engine sound"/looks/etc. NO "crusades" here, except to keep THIS country's manufacturing base alive and ahead of foreign competitors. (Yeah, that's a SIN nowadays, I know. ) I NEVER said EVERYONE "should be driving" a '98-'02 f body. I did not even imply that, I was just defending against the usual import worshippers bashings against my (and most domestics) car, and their belief that I "should have" bought an import like them. That ain't gonna happen so they might as well save their hot air!

If "elevens" was not implying crappy interiors (like a lot of import boosters do) in domestics/f bodies, etc., and he was not talking about performance/mileage/handling/reliability, then what exactly was he (and yourself) talking about (re; "the only real important thing")???!

 

Interiors on imports are supposedly better? Wow. I'm guessing whoever said that hasnt seen the giant horsecock of an e-brake 1g eclipses have.

 

That car is at the bare minimum, thirteen years old... not sure where that would have any weight in this conversation...

 

Fair enough.

When I talk about other attributes (cant speak for anyone else) its a lot of different things. As an example: I would have loved an LS1 when I got my Laser. But it was '02. I was a student, and my requirements were mileage, cheap speed, ability to go on dirt roads with slush and ice. An LS1 was simply out of my price range, and an LT1 would have been a handful for my inexpirenced *** and probably not quite as good on gas. So I got the Laser. I dont think I could have made a better choice at that point in my life. Its been reliable, fun, and gotten into areas that had my freinds scratching their heads in confusion. Love that last part. Especially on on AT tires .

For others its a certain nimble feeling. Vettes feel very nimble to me, but for others they dont. Can't explain that. But those guys will enjoy something like an FD RX7 more. Its not nessesarily that one car will out handle the other, it just feels like it. And unless were all racing 24/7, that fun factor is the most important thing.

The list goes on. Theres about as many criteria as there are consumers.

Then too, there are certanly a bunch of retards who really do beleive that poor HP/L and GM together mean a slow heap. I hate those guys too. I try not to ever mention that I am a car guy when meeting people. They instantly assume I wear my hat sidewayz (JO ) and blast M&M at 2 AM. We can thank the import fo' life crowd for that.

I like pretty much any car that does what its intended to do well.

Sorry if I was a hard ***. I do that. Its a major character flaw. Being perfect would be boring anyway.

As for the trade thing, US exports are up just now. Weak dollar gives us the edge that other have had for years. Airbus does not like them apples just now against Boeing. Freind of mine (DSMer) is a Boeing military consultant. Nice to know he has some job security I'll admit.

I would like to know how the revenues got divied up between Plymouth, Eagle, and Mitsu. I suspect that they all split the costs of the normal plant, and paid the same price per car off the line, then took whatever their respective dealers could get for each car. Thats probably simplistic though.

I'm of the opinion that comerce in general is good. I have a lot of trust in a fairly unregulated market to right itself. This country can counter low cost production with quality and reliability. The US after-market companies have done this for years. Detroit is heading in an OK direction, and will figure it out eventually. Cerberus the demon dog of a equity firm wont let DCX be uncompetitive. GM today is not GM 10 years ago at all. Much better. And Ford will eventually get it through their damn heads that all the sweet chassis work that gives them a good rep in Europe will help here too. Might be a bit of a wait on that last unfortuneately. You would think the Focus was an nice object lesson in that, but I guess not. People would line up to buy Mondeo ST220s here.

 

For once, I agree with you.

Evos handle nicely. I'm definitely not crazy about the looks, but the performance/dollar isn't bad at all.

 

NOW you sound like the intelligent, rational Sparetire I recall from past threads! I agree with everything you've stated above. I'd REALLY like to see a street/production version of the Focus WRC (you would think the Blue Oval would at least try to duplicate the success of the Evo/STI?? And this would make for one WICKED Group N car!!), as well as an AWD/turbo new Astra from GM.
As I've said in past threads, I used to work EVERY Pro Rally event in the northeast. So YES, I can appreciate (and was often quite envious of/wishing I'd had one as well) the capabilities of the other workers' (not to mention the competitors' ) AWD rides (including MANY DSMs, BTW)!

 

Bah!

We are not supposed to have common grounds and "agree" on issues.

Fight...round 2.

 

DSM's suck, Evo's are much better

 

Respect your elders.

We can still teach you EVO boys and girls a thing or two.