700rwhp supra vs LT1
11-14-2007, 08:11 PM
#221
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WOW, the Nippon fanboy noobs are coming out of the woodwork now. Just like the roaches in their own homes.
Since you're sooo set on "factory based", why don't we go all the way to bone f'ing stock (as in C6Z06), right down to the shitty runflats. How many of your pure stock MKIVs are in the very low 11s/high 10s?? Don't give me the "10 years newer" tech **** either. If your Nippon wonders are sooo amazing they could kill this car, right fanboiee?? Not to mention what that same bone stock Z06 would do to your (stock) "epitome of perfection" on a road course.
Since you're sooo set on "factory based", why don't we go all the way to bone f'ing stock (as in C6Z06), right down to the shitty runflats. How many of your pure stock MKIVs are in the very low 11s/high 10s?? Don't give me the "10 years newer" tech **** either. If your Nippon wonders are sooo amazing they could kill this car, right fanboiee?? Not to mention what that same bone stock Z06 would do to your (stock) "epitome of perfection" on a road course.
And while you're at it maybe you should stop changing the subject evberytime you have no valid point either.
11-14-2007, 08:29 PM
#222
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WOW, the Nippon fanboy noobs are coming out of the woodwork now. Just like the roaches in their own homes.
Since you're sooo set on "factory based", why don't we go all the way to bone f'ing stock (as in C6Z06), right down to the shitty runflats. How many of your pure stock MKIVs are in the very low 11s/high 10s?? Don't give me the "10 years newer" tech **** either. If your Nippon wonders are sooo amazing they could kill this car, right fanboiee?? Not to mention what that same bone stock Z06 would do to your (stock) "epitome of perfection" on a road course.
Since you're sooo set on "factory based", why don't we go all the way to bone f'ing stock (as in C6Z06), right down to the shitty runflats. How many of your pure stock MKIVs are in the very low 11s/high 10s?? Don't give me the "10 years newer" tech **** either. If your Nippon wonders are sooo amazing they could kill this car, right fanboiee?? Not to mention what that same bone stock Z06 would do to your (stock) "epitome of perfection" on a road course.
You do understand that there were limitations on how much power Japanese cars could make right? Why do you think they were rated a 280hp
11-14-2007, 08:34 PM
#223
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WOW, the Nippon fanboy noobs are coming out of the woodwork now. Just like the roaches in their own homes.
Since you're sooo set on "factory based", why don't we go all the way to bone f'ing stock (as in C6Z06), right down to the shitty runflats. How many of your pure stock MKIVs are in the very low 11s/high 10s?? Don't give me the "10 years newer" tech **** either. If your Nippon wonders are sooo amazing they could kill this car, right fanboiee?? Not to mention what that same bone stock Z06 would do to your (stock) "epitome of perfection" on a road course.
Since you're sooo set on "factory based", why don't we go all the way to bone f'ing stock (as in C6Z06), right down to the shitty runflats. How many of your pure stock MKIVs are in the very low 11s/high 10s?? Don't give me the "10 years newer" tech **** either. If your Nippon wonders are sooo amazing they could kill this car, right fanboiee?? Not to mention what that same bone stock Z06 would do to your (stock) "epitome of perfection" on a road course.
Why arent there any 6sec ls1's, ls2's, ls3's etc...... with all this displacement advantage and so called "torque monsters"?
Sub 3.5 liter 6 sec car:
2jz
13b
VQ
Rb
Matter of fact, the fastest 4cyl is quicker than any time listed on this site.
11-14-2007, 10:03 PM
#224
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I'm done. You just want to argue and keep coming up with new stuff to say.
OBSCURE? The two mentioned were some of the highest hp record holders that you clearly don't care about. You already forgot a lot of my points from previously posts.
The HKS drag Supra ran sub-7's, the boost logic supra ran in the 7's.
Woon ran low 8's, Marco a low-mid 8 and these were 6-speeds.
OBSCURE? The two mentioned were some of the highest hp record holders that you clearly don't care about. You already forgot a lot of my points from previously posts.
The HKS drag Supra ran sub-7's, the boost logic supra ran in the 7's.
Woon ran low 8's, Marco a low-mid 8 and these were 6-speeds.
11-14-2007, 10:22 PM
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11-14-2007, 10:24 PM
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Ok someone please tell me why were comparing N/A motor internals to FI motor internals and motors that come in entry level cars with motors that come in sports cars?
The myth is that Supra's can put out 1,000 to the tire. Easily, reliably, and cheaply is the myth, when that is just not fact. There is nothing easy, reliable and cheap about 1,000 to the tire unless were talking about a BBF or BBC or maybe Big Cube Hemi(not cheap!).
Read this below, I should sell my Vette and go get my Cobra back because of what kind of boost it can hold on the stock block. And keep in mind building a stroker mod motor isn't any more expensive than building a Supra. In fact its much. much cheaper.
The Teksid's are in plentiful supply, the stock one aren't. I have an excellent supply line of the Teksids, but I have searched all over and can't seem to find any 05+ blocks without having to buy the entire engine or pay an arm, a leg and one small child for them. The general concenus is that the stock 05+ block is as strong as the Teksid...The Teksid has a proven ten year track record to back up is reputation, the 05+ block doesn't yet. There are 05+ blocks pounding out 1400 HP, but not too many...Time will tell....
And this seems like a good opportunity to tell you all just how strong a teksid block is...I have an experiment that I do to determine the "flex" in the cylinders of a block....it is generally accepted that the top of the cylinder bore is round and the bottom of the bore is not. you can see this on an old block that has 100,000 miles on it...There are actually places in the cylinder walls that haven't been touched by the piston because they are so warped that the piston never gets close to it....
Anyway, what I do is take a inside mic and place it down towards the bottom of the bore and cinch it up so that it is touching the sides of the cylinder and can hold itself there. Then I attach the main caps and torque them down to spec. In every case, every block, every mfg, through out the years as I torque the main caps, the cylinder warps just enough to let the mic fall. That means about a .003 out of round condition. I did this to a Teksid and it just sat there, never moved, never fell.....In forty years, I have never seen any block, 4cyl, 6, cyl, 8 cyl, 10 cyl, 12 cyl, Ford, Chevy, Mopar, Ferrari, Jaguar, none of them, hold the mic. The Teksid did.
The myth is that Supra's can put out 1,000 to the tire. Easily, reliably, and cheaply is the myth, when that is just not fact. There is nothing easy, reliable and cheap about 1,000 to the tire unless were talking about a BBF or BBC or maybe Big Cube Hemi(not cheap!).
Read this below, I should sell my Vette and go get my Cobra back because of what kind of boost it can hold on the stock block. And keep in mind building a stroker mod motor isn't any more expensive than building a Supra. In fact its much. much cheaper.
The Teksid's are in plentiful supply, the stock one aren't. I have an excellent supply line of the Teksids, but I have searched all over and can't seem to find any 05+ blocks without having to buy the entire engine or pay an arm, a leg and one small child for them. The general concenus is that the stock 05+ block is as strong as the Teksid...The Teksid has a proven ten year track record to back up is reputation, the 05+ block doesn't yet. There are 05+ blocks pounding out 1400 HP, but not too many...Time will tell....
And this seems like a good opportunity to tell you all just how strong a teksid block is...I have an experiment that I do to determine the "flex" in the cylinders of a block....it is generally accepted that the top of the cylinder bore is round and the bottom of the bore is not. you can see this on an old block that has 100,000 miles on it...There are actually places in the cylinder walls that haven't been touched by the piston because they are so warped that the piston never gets close to it....
Anyway, what I do is take a inside mic and place it down towards the bottom of the bore and cinch it up so that it is touching the sides of the cylinder and can hold itself there. Then I attach the main caps and torque them down to spec. In every case, every block, every mfg, through out the years as I torque the main caps, the cylinder warps just enough to let the mic fall. That means about a .003 out of round condition. I did this to a Teksid and it just sat there, never moved, never fell.....In forty years, I have never seen any block, 4cyl, 6, cyl, 8 cyl, 10 cyl, 12 cyl, Ford, Chevy, Mopar, Ferrari, Jaguar, none of them, hold the mic. The Teksid did.
11-14-2007, 10:37 PM
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Please explain to me how they are overrated and overpriced. Show me vids of two similarly powered ls1 vs supras. Supras have stronger rear ends, stronger blocks, stronger tranny and the list goes on. Not exactly sure I agree with you on these statements.
11-14-2007, 10:53 PM
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Anything can be made to go fast, and when LS1-based vehicles are so much cheaper to buy when stock, it makes them the more cost-effective solution for doing so. Thanks to a better power and torque curve, LS1-based cars (especially Corvettes due the light weight) would be faster than a Supra with the same power. In addition, high-horsepower LSX vehicles can make the big numbers with pump gas. Who wants to put in race gas everytime they want to go fast?
When you want to get into ultra-extreme examples, Supras end up more "tame" than LSX vehicles when single-digit cars, but they're still race cars through and through, far from the street cars people make them out to be.
Why hasn't there been an 8-second 6-speed Corvette? It beats me since they're lighter than Supras by a couple hundred pounds (300 with an FRC), they have a better power curve, they have more torque, and their shape is very aerodynamic. Sure, the rear and and transmission would have to be upgraded, unlike the Supra, but I don't see how that is a big issue to overcome.
11-15-2007, 12:03 AM
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Well, considering that Supras "windowed" for around $40k in 1998, the fact that they sell for the same amount today is ridiculous. They're overpriced, for almost the same money a new (BRAND NEW) C6 Corvette could be purchased. They went up in value thanks for Fast and the Furious and hype. Period. Hell, for $40k you could get a very low mile GTS Viper and walk all over Supras all day when modded. Everyone knows that TT Vipers are KING, and no Supra can touch the Viper 6-speed record, not by a long shot.
Anything can be made to go fast, and when LS1-based vehicles are so much cheaper to buy when stock, it makes them the more cost-effective solution for doing so. Thanks to a better power and torque curve, LS1-based cars (especially Corvettes due the light weight) would be faster than a Supra with the same power. In addition, high-horsepower LSX vehicles can make the big numbers with pump gas. Who wants to put in race gas everytime they want to go fast?
When you want to get into ultra-extreme examples, Supras end up more "tame" than LSX vehicles when single-digit cars, but they're still race cars through and through, far from the street cars people make them out to be.
Why hasn't there been an 8-second 6-speed Corvette? It beats me since they're lighter than Supras by a couple hundred pounds (300 with an FRC), they have a better power curve, they have more torque, and their shape is very aerodynamic. Sure, the rear and and transmission would have to be upgraded, unlike the Supra, but I don't see how that is a big issue to overcome.
Anything can be made to go fast, and when LS1-based vehicles are so much cheaper to buy when stock, it makes them the more cost-effective solution for doing so. Thanks to a better power and torque curve, LS1-based cars (especially Corvettes due the light weight) would be faster than a Supra with the same power. In addition, high-horsepower LSX vehicles can make the big numbers with pump gas. Who wants to put in race gas everytime they want to go fast?
When you want to get into ultra-extreme examples, Supras end up more "tame" than LSX vehicles when single-digit cars, but they're still race cars through and through, far from the street cars people make them out to be.
Why hasn't there been an 8-second 6-speed Corvette? It beats me since they're lighter than Supras by a couple hundred pounds (300 with an FRC), they have a better power curve, they have more torque, and their shape is very aerodynamic. Sure, the rear and and transmission would have to be upgraded, unlike the Supra, but I don't see how that is a big issue to overcome.
Who cares what the window sticker was back in 93-98. The price of the Yen was completely different back then. Secondly, the supra in 93 owned anything and everything that cam out of the domestic lineup. Thirdly, people like you who post ridiculous and unfounded statements regarding fast n furious supra uprising, fail to see that there were other cars in that movie who's prices did not rise. The steady rise in price was not due to the movie, but to the rarity and potential of the car. Something that every American fail to see on a daily basis with the Vette, Mustang and Firebirds(trans ams)!
Its funny how you mention vipers, when you fail to address who there taking the title from. Once again, were are the ls1's and vettes in this discussion? And I think its pretty sad that you want to compare a 8.0+ liter twin turbocharged V10 with a measly ol 3.0-3.4 liter motors. This alone should be a testament to how well supras can hold their own. Why dont you factor in the cost to build one of these 1200hp vipers. Add up the nearly 75k-130k dollars it takes to build a viper(RSI etc...) when it can be done for a 1/3 of the cost on a supra.
Domestic owners love to bring up torque curve. Since they figure they make more down low(given the displacement), but have a smaller rpm band. In a drag racing platform, it is best to make more power in the higher rpms, so you can take advantage of gearing and hp. Making torque from 3000-6300(ls1) is not more efficient than making it at 5000-8500(to 9000 rpm). The L98 and LT1 are slower than the Ls1, despite sharing the same displacement and similar weights. And the reason is becuase the LS1 stays in gear longer to take advantage of gearing and rpms. Another point I would like to make is....if you feel torque is the key to winning races, why do you shift at redline and not at peak torque? Torque falls off while hp continues to rise.
Supras dipping into single digits are not considered race cars. Since the majority of them still have AC, Power windows, etc..... and still drive them on a daily basis. I am a testament of what can be done, since this is my only means of transportation. I have 155k miles on my car, in which 40k have been with my single GT42r without a problem. I drive around town at 18-20psi and boost it on an average of 8-10 times a day(addicting). Remeber my initial post, I came from an ls1 and I respect the platform but it is no supra.
The reason why there hasnt been a 6sec vette or ls1 for that matter is the platform. You keep mentioning torque curve, but it doesnt seem to be working to compete with the likes of all these imports that keep getting deeper and deeper into the 6's. You have 2jz's trapping at 218 mph. you have VQ motor(which is still considered new) in the 6's trapping nearly 218mph and you have 4cyl on the verge of cracking 6's. So whats the excuse? You say its cheaper to modify, but were are the results? Were are the times to back up everything you support?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lzqKke1fw80
Love this video
One last thing. Viper owners respect supras. Hence the reason for Supra and Viper Nationals every year. One of the biggest car events. I dont see Viper and Ls1 nationals. Nor do I see Vette and Viper nationals.
11-15-2007, 12:08 AM
#234
Supras suck because they look and sound like rice. They are also glorified for being "supposedly" good at ricer racing. They hang out at the strip and run their mouths with their 900hp supra and pick on head/cam f-bodies from 60 rolls, and act like thats impressive when they come flying past 2 gears later. Then when a 900hp boosted viper rolls in, all the supras are nowhere to be found and the cameras turn off. Another thing they do is downplay all their numbers to make themselves look more impressive than they really are. Those are my experiences and opinions being around supra owners.
11-15-2007, 12:12 AM
#235
Btw, I like this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=at6bEnF6VwM
489rwhp C5 vs. 722rwhp Supra
Takes an awful long time for the supra to do the loser flyby.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=at6bEnF6VwM
489rwhp C5 vs. 722rwhp Supra
Takes an awful long time for the supra to do the loser flyby.
11-15-2007, 12:15 AM
#236
11-15-2007, 12:41 AM
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Germeezy, NOBODY said that making that power is easy or cheap. I said name me ANY domestic that has housed 1600hp on a stock block. No answer. I said name me ANY domestic that has housed 1600hp on a stock 6-speed transmission. No answer. Stop changing the subject into some random stuff. Supra's must have the stock block and transmission record.
560SL, what do you just jump into threads without reading through first? I clarified Woon's run later. Yeah, Viper's do rock. Now that they are in the 7's challengers are very few and far between. I don't think Viper have this kind of listing I'm about to post.
Top 100 1/4 Mile Times
http://www.suprastore.com/top10014miti.html
1. 7.906@180.77 KRYSTOS EFANTIS MSP RACING 3315lbs DRs best MPH 185.44
2. 7.94@181 Lary White Titan Motorsports 3.4L, GT55-88, nitrous, PG 8.9@163 on the stock 6 speed
3. 8.02@17x(need trap speed) Boostlogic. GT47-80, TH400, nitrous, 3000lbs(?)
4. 8.19@166 Chris Anderson AAP Powerglide
5. 8.34@171 Dana Westover/Virtual Works Auto GT47-88, nitrous, full weight
6. 8.45@162 Marko D. Sound Performance Full weight daily driver
7. 8.45@xxx(need trap speed) WOTM/1st Upholstery Auto 3.4L, GT47-88, 3300lbs
8. 8.46@166 Errol@TPS
9. 8.58@165 Dan Willie Batlground Engineering Auto 10.3@144 6 Speed Drag Radials
10. 8.60@168 Larry Prebis Sound Performance Auto Full weight
11. 8.60@163mph (Fast Foward Motorwerks 94 supra BFG DRAG RADIALS @28.5lbs of boost with 100 shot of NO2)
12 8.62@171 Ryan Woon. 6 speed, 3.4L stroker, GT47-88, 100 shot, 3550lbs
13. 8.76@164 Joakim Menghini Supramannen Racing driven by Rickard Cornacchini
14. 8.97@166.6 Paul Efantis/MSP Full weight 6speed
15. 8.98@154 Dusty Womack MVP/Powerhouseracing Auto
Heffner TT Viper 7.99 1/4 (1900hp) 6-speed, wasn't street legal, or full weight, and they were on nitrous. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Fastest Street legal Auto Viper (Full weight, boost only, IRS, Automatic) - 7.89 @ 183
http://videos.streetfire.net/categor...3700dc8cb1.htm
It looks pretty close to me unless you can find some cool Viper information. You make it seem like they FAR FAR away from eachother. When in fact Woon's and Marko's Supra's were street cars. Both daily drivers that could run pump gas, REGARDLESS of bad it's street manners you assume it had. Turn down the boost and you could easily daily drive these cars. Why aren't you mentioning that. And I hope this isn't ricer, just a point, 505ci vs. 180ci. and it's this close.
560SL, what do you just jump into threads without reading through first? I clarified Woon's run later. Yeah, Viper's do rock. Now that they are in the 7's challengers are very few and far between. I don't think Viper have this kind of listing I'm about to post.
Top 100 1/4 Mile Times
http://www.suprastore.com/top10014miti.html
1. 7.906@180.77 KRYSTOS EFANTIS MSP RACING 3315lbs DRs best MPH 185.44
2. 7.94@181 Lary White Titan Motorsports 3.4L, GT55-88, nitrous, PG 8.9@163 on the stock 6 speed
3. 8.02@17x(need trap speed) Boostlogic. GT47-80, TH400, nitrous, 3000lbs(?)
4. 8.19@166 Chris Anderson AAP Powerglide
5. 8.34@171 Dana Westover/Virtual Works Auto GT47-88, nitrous, full weight
6. 8.45@162 Marko D. Sound Performance Full weight daily driver
7. 8.45@xxx(need trap speed) WOTM/1st Upholstery Auto 3.4L, GT47-88, 3300lbs
8. 8.46@166 Errol@TPS
9. 8.58@165 Dan Willie Batlground Engineering Auto 10.3@144 6 Speed Drag Radials
10. 8.60@168 Larry Prebis Sound Performance Auto Full weight
11. 8.60@163mph (Fast Foward Motorwerks 94 supra BFG DRAG RADIALS @28.5lbs of boost with 100 shot of NO2)
12 8.62@171 Ryan Woon. 6 speed, 3.4L stroker, GT47-88, 100 shot, 3550lbs
13. 8.76@164 Joakim Menghini Supramannen Racing driven by Rickard Cornacchini
14. 8.97@166.6 Paul Efantis/MSP Full weight 6speed
15. 8.98@154 Dusty Womack MVP/Powerhouseracing Auto
Heffner TT Viper 7.99 1/4 (1900hp) 6-speed, wasn't street legal, or full weight, and they were on nitrous. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Fastest Street legal Auto Viper (Full weight, boost only, IRS, Automatic) - 7.89 @ 183
http://videos.streetfire.net/categor...3700dc8cb1.htm
It looks pretty close to me unless you can find some cool Viper information. You make it seem like they FAR FAR away from eachother. When in fact Woon's and Marko's Supra's were street cars. Both daily drivers that could run pump gas, REGARDLESS of bad it's street manners you assume it had. Turn down the boost and you could easily daily drive these cars. Why aren't you mentioning that. And I hope this isn't ricer, just a point, 505ci vs. 180ci. and it's this close.
11-15-2007, 12:51 AM
#238
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Drag Supra - 7.8 @ 177
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...230103af04.htm
HKS Drag Supra Delivers Multiple 6 Second Passes in Englishtown, NJ
http://www.hksusa.com/info/?id=1871
Boost Logic Supra - 7.97 at 179
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfzamDiGMyU
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...230103af04.htm
HKS Drag Supra Delivers Multiple 6 Second Passes in Englishtown, NJ
http://www.hksusa.com/info/?id=1871
Boost Logic Supra - 7.97 at 179
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfzamDiGMyU
11-15-2007, 08:53 AM
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Btw, I like this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=at6bEnF6VwM
489rwhp C5 vs. 722rwhp Supra
Takes an awful long time for the supra to do the loser flyby.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=at6bEnF6VwM
489rwhp C5 vs. 722rwhp Supra
Takes an awful long time for the supra to do the loser flyby.
I can see now, that you've never been in a high powered turbo car. Especially one exceeding 700rwhp on street tires. Its very easy to maintain 460rwhp when going from a roll opposed to having 300hp coming in in a matter of moments.
11-15-2007, 08:59 AM
#240
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I already addressed this, but I will again just for you.
Supras suck because they look and sound like rice. They are also glorified for being "supposedly" good at ricer racing. They hang out at the strip and run their mouths with their 900hp supra and pick on head/cam f-bodies from 60 rolls, and act like thats impressive when they come flying past 2 gears later. Then when a 900hp boosted viper rolls in, all the supras are nowhere to be found and the cameras turn off. Another thing they do is downplay all their numbers to make themselves look more impressive than they really are. Those are my experiences and opinions being around supra owners.
Supras suck because they look and sound like rice. They are also glorified for being "supposedly" good at ricer racing. They hang out at the strip and run their mouths with their 900hp supra and pick on head/cam f-bodies from 60 rolls, and act like thats impressive when they come flying past 2 gears later. Then when a 900hp boosted viper rolls in, all the supras are nowhere to be found and the cameras turn off. Another thing they do is downplay all their numbers to make themselves look more impressive than they really are. Those are my experiences and opinions being around supra owners.
Your first point is totally subjective!
Your second point is totally mute, since I showed you a vid speaking otherwise!
Third, there's only one other vid I can think of that an ls1 has actually beat a supra and thats the twin turbo ls1 vs a one of the smallest single supras there is.
Your experiences with supras owners, doesnt seem like the norm when all of you all come to our events. I guess when vettes start breaking records as well as ls1's, then I will conceed! Until then stfu!
PS. your very good at avoiding issues.