smack talkin in a K20 Hatch
02-26-2008, 05:05 PM
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and i totally agree with onebadassws6 on this one. the cost it takes to build a fully reliable(if even possible) turbo honda motor plus the cost of the car is gunna put you into the same price range as just buying an F-body and putting bolt-on's on it. and the ls1 is internally stock and non boosted and they will still run near the same time. dont get me wrong out here in phoenix there are alot of ricers. there just are, several of my friends have honda's and all pledge too them, and i have seen many of them make some quick 1/4 miles passes, but how many passes and high rpm launches can they take? only as much as you spent on the car, and if you went cheap to keep the cost down you are gunna get a few runs and something is bound to break.
why not just spend that 7 grand on a f-body and it will be just as fast if not faster and it will be 10,000 times more reliable, you dont even have to modify anything internally to hit the times they dream of hitting. it just urks me when people say you can make a honda fast for way cheap and it will still be reliable. the only reliable thing about a 12 second honda is the fact that you can find another replacement within two blocks of where you broke down.
02-26-2008, 05:07 PM
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You're making it out to be a cheap endeavor. Its not. One of my coworkers is building a Honda "bubble" hatch with a turbo setup. Its a B18 out of an Integra LS. By the time you add up the cost of the engine and transmission swap alone, thats $2K right there.
So far he has a total of over $6,000 in this car, not including the vehicle itself. When you add up the hidden costs, you realize its not as simple and cheap as everyone makes it out to be. There is the initial cost of the turbo, intercooler, wastegate, BOV, exhaust manifold, and piping, the turbo oil lines (expensive, especially AN fittings), MSD Ignition system, upgraded fuel pump, high flow injectors ($400), High flow Intake manifold, upgraded PVC system with catch can, 3 bar MAP sensor, block guard/ARP head studs, full exhaust, boost controller, Hondata computer ($650), tune ($600), and wideband sensor and controller ($450). There's plenty more things he's needed to buy as well, those are just the things I've remembered off the top of my head.
Will his car be fast?? Who knows, maybe for a little while, before the stock engine blows from too much boost. He's figuring on that anyway, so he has a B16 he's building in the mean time. So when you add up the hidden costs of properly turbcharging a Honda, you aren't any farther ahead than if you were to built up any number of other, much nicer, much faster cars.
So far he has a total of over $6,000 in this car, not including the vehicle itself. When you add up the hidden costs, you realize its not as simple and cheap as everyone makes it out to be. There is the initial cost of the turbo, intercooler, wastegate, BOV, exhaust manifold, and piping, the turbo oil lines (expensive, especially AN fittings), MSD Ignition system, upgraded fuel pump, high flow injectors ($400), High flow Intake manifold, upgraded PVC system with catch can, 3 bar MAP sensor, block guard/ARP head studs, full exhaust, boost controller, Hondata computer ($650), tune ($600), and wideband sensor and controller ($450). There's plenty more things he's needed to buy as well, those are just the things I've remembered off the top of my head.
Will his car be fast?? Who knows, maybe for a little while, before the stock engine blows from too much boost. He's figuring on that anyway, so he has a B16 he's building in the mean time. So when you add up the hidden costs of properly turbcharging a Honda, you aren't any farther ahead than if you were to built up any number of other, much nicer, much faster cars.
02-26-2008, 05:16 PM
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the same price as buying and adding bolt on's? i think not. a decently built honda made to withstand multiple high rev launches including car can run anywhere between 6-10k depending on what you run and whether or not you do work. most f-bodies ae running between 8-15k. all i know is that there are lots of 12 sec. reliable hondas around me. its quite easy to come upon, and if you know the right people you can run 11's with help.
02-26-2008, 05:48 PM
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the same price as buying and adding bolt on's? i think not. a decently built honda made to withstand multiple high rev launches including car can run anywhere between 6-10k depending on what you run and whether or not you do work. most f-bodies ae running between 8-15k. all i know is that there are lots of 12 sec. reliable hondas around me. its quite easy to come upon, and if you know the right people you can run 11's with help.
02-26-2008, 05:50 PM
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02-26-2008, 09:13 PM
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Wasn't I talking to you a little over a year ago when you were trying to say how expensive it would be to build a fast Honda, and I went and used actual classifieds from honda-tech.com and showed you EVERY PART AND PRICE to build a semi-reliable 10s CRX? Like, every part. Fuel system, axles, transmission, motor, turbo kit... everything. You can get an LS motor/tranny for $1,000 easily if you know where to look. It added up to right under $10k.
It is expensive to make a Honda quick. There is no getting around it, and getting used parts for cheap doesn't count. I'm talking about legit purchases, not parts that have been passed around through 100 people like a cheap *****.
If you build the car properly, it will cost just as much, probably more, than building real car up, like a F-body or Mustang. And it will never look as good, sound as good, or be as reliable in the long term. So you're always at a disadvantage with a Honda. The car was designed to be cheap and get good fuel economy, not go fast or be a drag car. You're much better off starting with a platform designed for performance, there's no two ways about it.
There is a local Honda kid in my area that apparently run's 10's with his Civic. He said he has appoximately $30K invested in the car, and its still always broken or being upgraded.
02-26-2008, 10:55 PM
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Ok so in my own posts defense. I have a friend with a 95 Integra and it has the JDM front end and type r wing and all kinds of body work, that car is sweet. correct me if im wrong, it has the B18dc2 motor in it. Its built like a ****. Its got a t3 t4 turbo. i wish i could give you more info but i cant. The car made 315whp at 18psi. It was very fast. Point is that he sold it within 3 months of him having it because it had so many problems. And 3 weeks after he sold it the guy was racing a wrx and it through a rod. all together there was 16,000 bucks in the car. and alot of the work was done in a shop and not in the driveway as you would say, but wow thats alot of money. And now he wants a fbody. because he has seen how i get 28mpg and i run 12s and i drive it everyday.... during the summer haha. im just sayin, imo i say it can be hard to build a reliable honda. I Live in marysville ohio. thats where almost all the ****** hondas are made! so i am tired of looking at them. Tho i drive and RSX lol
02-26-2008, 11:58 PM
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My camaro runs 13.9's at the track and low 14's on the street, I've race two k20 rsx type-S's. One was a full bolt on one from a 50 on the highway, by the time I hit 90 he was a ways back, by the time I had planted my 130mph speedo and was getting somewhere around 140mph I couldn't see him anymore, it took him a while before he show'd up again and we pulled off and talked.
The other one was also a bolt on one but the guy said it was tuned, didn't give me any numbers that I remember. We went from a dig, now keep in mind I can spin through 1st,2nd, and chirp 3rd, After I got into 2nd I was cars ahead and by 75-80ish I let off because it was over.
Now they weren't hatchs but they where the same motor, now I can take a stock LS1 car off the line and till 50-70mph for most stock or basic bolt on ones, so you should talk him into a 2nd gear roll and a dig, remember you have 4 more cylinders which does help up top, and most stock LS1 cars will do 155mph with the A/C on and passengers in the car...
There has only been one honda that has beaten me, and it was a local guy in olathe, he had a "EGG" hatch with a boosted and built LS/non vtec so a b18b1. He told me it was laying down around 500FWHP, we went from a 45 and by 80ish he had flew by me. We did a dig and I got him threw like first and half of second, his car spun the tires and so did mine. My car is probally putting down 370-380RWHP.
Have faith man, all the import nut jockeys will praise the thing but the fact is the one's that you see on the internet that are fairly stock and fast is because they have what's called a driver mod, and the guy sounds like the average idiot ricer.
The other one was also a bolt on one but the guy said it was tuned, didn't give me any numbers that I remember. We went from a dig, now keep in mind I can spin through 1st,2nd, and chirp 3rd, After I got into 2nd I was cars ahead and by 75-80ish I let off because it was over.
Now they weren't hatchs but they where the same motor, now I can take a stock LS1 car off the line and till 50-70mph for most stock or basic bolt on ones, so you should talk him into a 2nd gear roll and a dig, remember you have 4 more cylinders which does help up top, and most stock LS1 cars will do 155mph with the A/C on and passengers in the car...
There has only been one honda that has beaten me, and it was a local guy in olathe, he had a "EGG" hatch with a boosted and built LS/non vtec so a b18b1. He told me it was laying down around 500FWHP, we went from a 45 and by 80ish he had flew by me. We did a dig and I got him threw like first and half of second, his car spun the tires and so did mine. My car is probally putting down 370-380RWHP.
Have faith man, all the import nut jockeys will praise the thing but the fact is the one's that you see on the internet that are fairly stock and fast is because they have what's called a driver mod, and the guy sounds like the average idiot ricer.
02-27-2008, 12:00 AM
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to address the original topic...
If he can drive good, itll be close on the highway, but my buddy's old k20-swapped civic coupe could hang with a Carrera S on the highway. By "hang" I mean he wasn't too far behind, maybe a car length or two. He had all the bolt-ons and a tune with Hondata K-pro. It was a preety quick car. From a dig, expect to walk all over him, but dont be surprised if you see that little "h" come up on you with a quickness. You'll nudge him out though.
That same coupe I speak of worked over a '01 Cobra at Memphis motorsports park, like 3 times, haha. It also beat his dads 'vette on the highway.
K-swapped hatches are nothing to write off as slow. They are respectable, but compared to our cars, its apples and oranges. The K20 is like the import Ls1. It reacts good to boltons + tune and REALLY wakes up when you do cams/valvetrain. Theres a guy in town with a 29xwhp all motor k20 hatch in town. Should be REALLY interesting to see what it runs.
If he can drive good, itll be close on the highway, but my buddy's old k20-swapped civic coupe could hang with a Carrera S on the highway. By "hang" I mean he wasn't too far behind, maybe a car length or two. He had all the bolt-ons and a tune with Hondata K-pro. It was a preety quick car. From a dig, expect to walk all over him, but dont be surprised if you see that little "h" come up on you with a quickness. You'll nudge him out though.
That same coupe I speak of worked over a '01 Cobra at Memphis motorsports park, like 3 times, haha. It also beat his dads 'vette on the highway.
K-swapped hatches are nothing to write off as slow. They are respectable, but compared to our cars, its apples and oranges. The K20 is like the import Ls1. It reacts good to boltons + tune and REALLY wakes up when you do cams/valvetrain. Theres a guy in town with a 29xwhp all motor k20 hatch in town. Should be REALLY interesting to see what it runs.
02-27-2008, 12:06 AM
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Ok so in my own posts defense. I have a friend with a 95 Integra and it has the JDM front end and type r wing and all kinds of body work, that car is sweet. correct me if im wrong, it has the B18dc2 motor in it. Its built like a ****. Its got a t3 t4 turbo. i wish i could give you more info but i cant. The car made 315whp at 18psi. It was very fast. Point is that he sold it within 3 months of him having it because it had so many problems. And 3 weeks after he sold it the guy was racing a wrx and it through a rod. all together there was 16,000 bucks in the car. and alot of the work was done in a shop and not in the driveway as you would say, but wow thats alot of money. And now he wants a fbody. because he has seen how i get 28mpg and i run 12s and i drive it everyday.... during the summer haha. im just sayin, imo i say it can be hard to build a reliable honda. I Live in marysville ohio. thats where almost all the ****** hondas are made! so i am tired of looking at them. Tho i drive and RSX lol
that guy probably didnt shop around for his turbo kit. I pieced together almost 90% complete turbo kit for my integra...maybe spent 1100 bucks minus tuning+dyno time. I never finished it, but the list was this :
Holset HX35 turbo
Greddy Type-S BOV
Tial 38mm w/g
tbolt clamps and silicone couplers
90* mandrel bent piping, and other various bends and sections
Stealthmode oil line return/feed kit
I just needed a manifold and some other odds and ends and I wouldve been squirtin around town with a 300whp Integra. Stock block. 100% reliable.
If you know how to shop, it makes all the difference, doing it yourself is a big help as well..
02-27-2008, 12:40 AM
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Also people this is LS1tech.com please take the honda loving bullshit, to a honda forum.
Look I started out import, but then all of a sudden when I got to start racing I could not beat the mustangs and camaro's and the vetts. Look muscle has been here for way longer and will be the superior motors. Instead of letting all the youth start listening to these bullshit ricers and haveing the highschool kids have honda civics for dream cars, we need to step up and show the actualy ricers we don't want them here.
In a way it's like the race issue, do I hate black people(import guys) hell no I don't, do I hate gangster thugs(ricers) yes I do, I belive they need to be taken off the T.V's and not be idolised by all the kids these days.
Look ok say there is a acura integra GSR, and it's body is stock and it has a swaped b18c5 type R head and has the stock b18c1 block, with no ricer stickers or miss matching paint and a driver that is a nice respectible guy, who doesn't carry a 9mm with him and shot at you because his 18 second car lost. That's fine by me, and we need to have more import guys like that.
But when you get the idoit in his 1992 honda civic hatch with miss matching body panels and a full fast and the furious body kit, with a stock D16z6 with a intake and he's out there talking trash and starting fights with people and throwing his hazards on when he lost and then flys by you and swevres at you. That's what the import culture needs less of.
Can a honda be fast, yeah. Is it cheap, yeah if it's a peice of crap old civic with rust all over it and a falling off body kit. Look people how much does a 2JZ supra take to be considered fast? A **** load of money, hell a 500hp full BPU supra still wont kill everyting and it will cost you around 35-40k if not 50k. Lets put the 4G63 into this, the mighty DSM motor, what do the stock GS-X's pull? oh yeah 15's and 14's with a badass driver. Can the 7 bolt take any huge amounts of power before it crank walks? NO. I'm sick and tired of all the young guys today making all the imports seem like there god. Just like our cars they have flaws. My old honda accord, well I blew it up! My old DSM well it seemed to like to break.
There's about to be a war in this country between the imports and the doemestics from where i'm at. The next ricer I see talking **** i'm probally going to lay out in a race and with my fist, I can't take this fast and the furious bullshit anymore. Please take me to the muscle car era!!!
Look I started out import, but then all of a sudden when I got to start racing I could not beat the mustangs and camaro's and the vetts. Look muscle has been here for way longer and will be the superior motors. Instead of letting all the youth start listening to these bullshit ricers and haveing the highschool kids have honda civics for dream cars, we need to step up and show the actualy ricers we don't want them here.
In a way it's like the race issue, do I hate black people(import guys) hell no I don't, do I hate gangster thugs(ricers) yes I do, I belive they need to be taken off the T.V's and not be idolised by all the kids these days.
Look ok say there is a acura integra GSR, and it's body is stock and it has a swaped b18c5 type R head and has the stock b18c1 block, with no ricer stickers or miss matching paint and a driver that is a nice respectible guy, who doesn't carry a 9mm with him and shot at you because his 18 second car lost. That's fine by me, and we need to have more import guys like that.
But when you get the idoit in his 1992 honda civic hatch with miss matching body panels and a full fast and the furious body kit, with a stock D16z6 with a intake and he's out there talking trash and starting fights with people and throwing his hazards on when he lost and then flys by you and swevres at you. That's what the import culture needs less of.
Can a honda be fast, yeah. Is it cheap, yeah if it's a peice of crap old civic with rust all over it and a falling off body kit. Look people how much does a 2JZ supra take to be considered fast? A **** load of money, hell a 500hp full BPU supra still wont kill everyting and it will cost you around 35-40k if not 50k. Lets put the 4G63 into this, the mighty DSM motor, what do the stock GS-X's pull? oh yeah 15's and 14's with a badass driver. Can the 7 bolt take any huge amounts of power before it crank walks? NO. I'm sick and tired of all the young guys today making all the imports seem like there god. Just like our cars they have flaws. My old honda accord, well I blew it up! My old DSM well it seemed to like to break.
There's about to be a war in this country between the imports and the doemestics from where i'm at. The next ricer I see talking **** i'm probally going to lay out in a race and with my fist, I can't take this fast and the furious bullshit anymore. Please take me to the muscle car era!!!
02-27-2008, 12:53 AM
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Wasn't I talking to you a little over a year ago when you were trying to say how expensive it would be to build a fast Honda, and I went and used actual classifieds from honda-tech.com and showed you EVERY PART AND PRICE to build a semi-reliable 10s CRX? Like, every part. Fuel system, axles, transmission, motor, turbo kit... everything. You can get an LS motor/tranny for $1,000 easily if you know where to look. It added up to right under $10k.
02-27-2008, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by thefastlife4me
Also people this is LS1tech.com please take the honda loving bullshit, to a honda forum.
Look I started out import, but then all of a sudden when I got to start racing I could not beat the mustangs and camaro's and the vetts. Look muscle has been here for way longer and will be the superior motors. Instead of letting all the youth start listening to these bullshit ricers and haveing the highschool kids have honda civics for dream cars, we need to step up and show the actualy ricers we don't want them here.
In a way it's like the race issue, do I hate black people(import guys) hell no I don't, do I hate gangster thugs(ricers) yes I do, I belive they need to be taken off the T.V's and not be idolised by all the kids these days.
Look ok say there is a acura integra GSR, and it's body is stock and it has a swaped b18c5 type R head and has the stock b18c1 block, with no ricer stickers or miss matching paint and a driver that is a nice respectible guy, who doesn't carry a 9mm with him and shot at you because his 18 second car lost. That's fine by me, and we need to have more import guys like that.
But when you get the idoit in his 1992 honda civic hatch with miss matching body panels and a full fast and the furious body kit, with a stock D16z6 with a intake and he's out there talking trash and starting fights with people and throwing his hazards on when he lost and then flys by you and swevres at you. That's what the import culture needs less of.
Can a honda be fast, yeah. Is it cheap, yeah if it's a peice of crap old civic with rust all over it and a falling off body kit. Look people how much does a 2JZ supra take to be considered fast? A **** load of money, hell a 500hp full BPU supra still wont kill everyting and it will cost you around 35-40k if not 50k. Lets put the 4G63 into this, the mighty DSM motor, what do the stock GS-X's pull? oh yeah 15's and 14's with a badass driver. Can the 7 bolt take any huge amounts of power before it crank walks? NO. I'm sick and tired of all the young guys today making all the imports seem like there god. Just like our cars they have flaws. My old honda accord, well I blew it up! My old DSM well it seemed to like to break.
There's about to be a war in this country between the imports and the doemestics from where i'm at. The next ricer I see talking **** i'm probally going to lay out in a race and with my fist, I can't take this fast and the furious bullshit anymore. Please take me to the muscle car era!!!
Look I started out import, but then all of a sudden when I got to start racing I could not beat the mustangs and camaro's and the vetts. Look muscle has been here for way longer and will be the superior motors. Instead of letting all the youth start listening to these bullshit ricers and haveing the highschool kids have honda civics for dream cars, we need to step up and show the actualy ricers we don't want them here.
In a way it's like the race issue, do I hate black people(import guys) hell no I don't, do I hate gangster thugs(ricers) yes I do, I belive they need to be taken off the T.V's and not be idolised by all the kids these days.
Look ok say there is a acura integra GSR, and it's body is stock and it has a swaped b18c5 type R head and has the stock b18c1 block, with no ricer stickers or miss matching paint and a driver that is a nice respectible guy, who doesn't carry a 9mm with him and shot at you because his 18 second car lost. That's fine by me, and we need to have more import guys like that.
But when you get the idoit in his 1992 honda civic hatch with miss matching body panels and a full fast and the furious body kit, with a stock D16z6 with a intake and he's out there talking trash and starting fights with people and throwing his hazards on when he lost and then flys by you and swevres at you. That's what the import culture needs less of.
Can a honda be fast, yeah. Is it cheap, yeah if it's a peice of crap old civic with rust all over it and a falling off body kit. Look people how much does a 2JZ supra take to be considered fast? A **** load of money, hell a 500hp full BPU supra still wont kill everyting and it will cost you around 35-40k if not 50k. Lets put the 4G63 into this, the mighty DSM motor, what do the stock GS-X's pull? oh yeah 15's and 14's with a badass driver. Can the 7 bolt take any huge amounts of power before it crank walks? NO. I'm sick and tired of all the young guys today making all the imports seem like there god. Just like our cars they have flaws. My old honda accord, well I blew it up! My old DSM well it seemed to like to break.
There's about to be a war in this country between the imports and the doemestics from where i'm at. The next ricer I see talking **** i'm probally going to lay out in a race and with my fist, I can't take this fast and the furious bullshit anymore. Please take me to the muscle car era!!!
Heres his car :
Thats clean...nothing overdone. Its not fast, its quick for what it is, but that thing handles like its on rails. Not to mention, it gets 35mpg and he can toss all his BMX stuff in the back.(gotta remove his jungle gym of cross bars though, haha).
The "crew" around here appreciates anything clean...basically not gay. F-bodies, vettes, Civics, s-chassis Nissans, almost everything are accepted among our friends. I wish it could be more like that everywhere, but there are always close minded idiots out there, that will laugh at something becuase they dont know/understand what it is.
Last edited by t . b o z; 02-27-2008 at 02:21 AM.
02-27-2008, 02:20 AM
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Well think about it, the whole JDM thing going on and the cars that are super clean and taken care of, are cool because in a way it's like what or muscle cars kind of have. It's just when the the fast and the furious **** tards go out and rice the hell out of there bolt on non vtec civic, and claim to be god.
I hate having to roll around on a friday night and pull into a sonic and see these POS riced out cars with lambo doors and neon lights, and then there all drunk in a parking lot and try and start as many fights as they can.
Don't tell me no one else on this site feels the way I do? Personaly i'm trying to figure out why people who own a import or a riced out one would even want to be on this site?
I hate having to roll around on a friday night and pull into a sonic and see these POS riced out cars with lambo doors and neon lights, and then there all drunk in a parking lot and try and start as many fights as they can.
Don't tell me no one else on this site feels the way I do? Personaly i'm trying to figure out why people who own a import or a riced out one would even want to be on this site?
02-27-2008, 02:28 AM
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Well when you grow up reading magazines like Grassroots Motorsports and watching BMI videos, you kind of think Fast and the Furious is gay...even when everyone else thought it was the coolest **** on the planet. lol..
I know a lot of people that started out ricing their **** all to hell, then they "converted" to the clean look of "JDM" inspired style and modifications. Good for them, but they just jumped on a self-manifested bandwagon when there were others out there doing it for years becuase they could think for themselves of what is clean and well thought out.
Most of those guys that were originally like that have a great appreciation for cool cars, no matter the make, but the bandwagon jumpers are your typical Honda/Nissan/whatever fanboys that will rev their 17-sec pos at you at an intersection. Ruin parking lot meets by running through their, ***-draggin with the e-brake, and doing/attempting burnouts...all the while attracting police.
I know a lot of people that started out ricing their **** all to hell, then they "converted" to the clean look of "JDM" inspired style and modifications. Good for them, but they just jumped on a self-manifested bandwagon when there were others out there doing it for years becuase they could think for themselves of what is clean and well thought out.
Most of those guys that were originally like that have a great appreciation for cool cars, no matter the make, but the bandwagon jumpers are your typical Honda/Nissan/whatever fanboys that will rev their 17-sec pos at you at an intersection. Ruin parking lot meets by running through their, ***-draggin with the e-brake, and doing/attempting burnouts...all the while attracting police.
02-27-2008, 02:29 AM
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I agree with some of that, but not some, especially on how much it costs to modify these cars. I definitely agree that there are a whole lot of people out there that make guys like my brother, and myself look bad. Then again, its like that in all areas of car ownership. I've had people who drive diesel trucks talk **** to me...and since I live in a town that thinks a truck is what a man should drive, my ***** weak...ROFL.
Heres his car :
Thats clean...nothing overdone. Its not fast, its quick for what it is, but that thing handles like its on rails. Not to mention, it gets 35mpg and he can toss all his BMX stuff in the back.(gotta remove his jungle gym of cross bars though, haha).
The "crew" around here appreciates anything clean...basically not gay. F-bodies, vettes, Civics, s-chassis Nissans, almost everything are accepted among our friends. I wish it could be more like that everywhere, but there are always close minded idiots out there, that will laugh at something becuase they dont know/understand what it is.
Heres his car :
Thats clean...nothing overdone. Its not fast, its quick for what it is, but that thing handles like its on rails. Not to mention, it gets 35mpg and he can toss all his BMX stuff in the back.(gotta remove his jungle gym of cross bars though, haha).
The "crew" around here appreciates anything clean...basically not gay. F-bodies, vettes, Civics, s-chassis Nissans, almost everything are accepted among our friends. I wish it could be more like that everywhere, but there are always close minded idiots out there, that will laugh at something becuase they dont know/understand what it is.
For me I will always see see doemestics *** superior, but I will also be giving props to the well set up imports out there. To be honest I have a thing for the honda S2000, mostly because it's RWD and is pretty much Japan's vett, and I totaly respect that.
02-27-2008, 02:31 AM
#80
On The Tree
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Collierville, TN
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Now that's what i'm talking about, the car you posted, it's clean, extremly taken car of and isn't all riced out. Where i'm at there are some that have clean imports liek that, but to be honest there are twice as much POS riced out civics/neons, that act like there **** doesn't stink. Then you line you're stock 4.3 V-6 5-speed silverado long bed up beside them and blow there doors off.
For me I will always see see doemestics *** superior, but I will also be giving props to the well set up imports out there. To be honest I have a thing for the honda S2000, mostly because it's RWD and is pretty much Japan's vett, and I totaly respect that.
For me I will always see see doemestics *** superior, but I will also be giving props to the well set up imports out there. To be honest I have a thing for the honda S2000, mostly because it's RWD and is pretty much Japan's vett, and I totaly respect that.
Its screams