BMR Suspension

iTrader: (6)

Sam,
I want to stick with the facts. No emotions here. I don't want this to turn into a pi$$ing match. Just facts.

The Strano springs are made from the EXACT same material spec as the BMR springs. I am not sure what Vogtland told you. Please, don't take my word. Send your springs to a third party lab. Have them do a Material Composition Test. No vanadium in your springs. They are made from the same high tensile silicone chrome steel material that BMR uses. Sorry.

BMR Suspension

iTrader: (6)

5.7 pounds, actually. And yes, the new BMR rear springs will be slightly less than 5.7 pounds.

BMR Tech2

iTrader: (5)

Yes we will still be offering the springs. The actual drop is 1.25".

Danny2tek

iTrader: (1)

you mean shocks right?

BMR Tech2

iTrader: (5)

Hello, the only shocks that we offer at this time is the "blue" tokico hp series. They work well with our springs but unfortunetly they are not adjustable. They give a good mix of handling and ride quality. If you have any questions feel free to give us a call. Our tech dept is open mon-fri till 6:00 pm est.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Sure, happens a lot. You don't need springs to have a very, very good handling car. And in fact my daily driver has Koni's on it, but stock springs.

Dampers and springs don't do the same job... they work together, but you don't need springs to do good shocks. In fact the complaint most folks have about a stock car setting aside ride height are all shock related, not spring related.

The floaty, bobbing, feels like you are driving a waterbed feeling? That's a lack of rebound damping. The floppy turn-in and the front and rear not feeling like they are in sync? Lack of rebound damping. The skippy, jittery rear axle? Too much compression damping.

These reasons are why, despite my having springs to sell I'm always going on about shocks, shocks, shocks. They matter, and they matter the most in most cases.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Oh, ok... I'll take your word for it Allan. I mean, maybe Vogtland is lying about the material being proprietary.... Maybe they are lying when they state the material is on the order of 30% lighter than chrome-silicone steel. I guess it's magic how they make them lighter than chrome-silicone springs when you are claiming we're using the same material.

Look you can state whatever you want to state. I've always been very front about everything about my springs, including the rates. I could have hidden them, and most folks do to prevent copying or arguments that set X is better or worse than set Y. I don't think hiding information is the right thing to do, so I never have.

I also have never changed my claimed rates, or in fact change the springs. I did my homework, and I'm happy with the results and have actual competition results (when used for autox and track days) as well as happy customers who've run various other springs to back up my springs.

I'm not going to into a pissing match, but there are some tangible differences that were designed into my springs based on tangible results that other springs did not incorporate. If they now try and replicate what I'm doing, I can't stop them. But then again, remember that all companies were doing what they thought was right before (I guess). So when a change happens mid-stream, does that mean they were off the mark before? I don't know why a company would choose to do such a thing unless they felt left behind. Much like GM took 3 years to do the original Camaro to combact the original Mustang, and now 4 years to combat the S197 Mustang. The fact is when a company has a good idea, and it becomes proven, other companies move that way. It's only good business. I'm flattered that it's happening, but admittedly a bit annoyed that the springs can't speak for themselves.

In the not so distance past (like in this thread) some made a big deal about the price of their springs being less than mine. And they ignore the fact that my springs also included the shipping. In the end, with the pricing games some play, I might end up the cheapest, and that's fine with me. Cheap is not what my springs are about and never were. And I don't do large volumes to make up for costs. I'm a much smaller company than others here, which means you don't get Wal-Mart pricing from me. You also don't get Wal-Mart type service. I work hard to separate myself from the others, I don't have the same background as other vendors, and I don't work the same way.

BMR Suspension

iTrader: (6)

Sam,
30% lighter doesn't seem right. What is the density of your springs (measured in pounds per in^3)?

No magic. It's a common metallurgical test called a Material Composition Test. They cut off a piece of the Strano spring and analyze it. Then they cut off a piece of the BMR spring and analyze it.

I'm not saying that Vogtland is lying. I'm just saying that the test results show that both springs are the same.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Allan,

This is getting crazy. You are making claims that are just not true, and some are coming form a world of fantasy.

I never said my springs were chrome-vanadium springs, but that they had vanadium as one of the alloy ingredients in them. And I just confirmed that a second time to make sure. So when you say they don't, you are simply mistaken.

The spring material is made in only one mill in the world, in Germany. There is a similar wire made in Japan, but is only available in up to 12mm diameter. So again, your claim you are using the same wire is simply not true unless you are importing it from Germany and know the exact specs of the VVS alloy which allows you to order it. If that's the case then it's a mark against your "made in the USA" argument. And if it's not the case it's a mark against your "made of the same material" argument. And if you think the material is the same, you should know the density of the alloy already.

Further, allow me to introduce you to some of folks using the Vogtland VVS allow that you might know. DEI (that's Dale Earnhardt Inc. for those that don't know), Hendrick Motorsports, Chip Ganassi Racing, Eddie Cheever Racing, and Andretti-Green Racing, just to name a few. I ask you, if the springs didn't have a tangible difference between 'normal' springs, why wouldn't these guys be running Eibach, Hypercoil, or any number of other springs? I'll tell you why, because the springs are lighter, and have much better fatigue resistance due to the alloy than standard type chrome-silicone spring wire. And the basic wire is chrome-silicone, but the total make up varies.

I'll add that you've always been more than coy about who makes your springs (and I know it's not you). In fact the company that makes your springs was here not long ago on a sales call. They are a large private label manufactuer and there is nothing wrong with that. I don't make my springs in house either. Now, maybe you got a set of my springs, and had that company "test" them. If you did, it seems to be yet another notch in the belt showing that you are trying to copy what we've got going on. Even if that was the case, clearly the testing missed something, because one ingredient in the alloy is indeed vanadium.

In review:

You claim to know the composition of the springs, and claim they don't have some ingredients they most certainly do contain.

You claim your spring were right before, but since changed the rates to look much more like mine, and not appears you are actually building a new spring that's actually more like mine.

You claim your other parts are better than others because they are "Track tested" which is a great claim to be able to make (and that's not being sarcastic in the least). I can make the claim with my springs because they've been used to win things on the handling front where Strano Performance Springs have actual documented data behind them. National Championships, and even lap times in a national magazine to back up the performance.

I'm going to end this back and forth now, because I can't imagine there is more I can add that is actually useful to anyone.

BMR thinks their springs are the best. I think mine are better than most. I speced and built them for a few specific reasons. I know why I had them done they way they are, and happily explain it to anyone.

I'd simply ask folks to weigh the claims, weight the arguments on both sides and decide what you think is best between out springs. But bear in mind, I don't get on a high-horse and think my springs are all things to all people and that's why I don't limit myself only to my own springs, but still make it a point to carry other brands. That makes customers more comfortable in knowing I'm not recommending anything based only on what I can sell. A sale is a sale around here, the only thing that drives a sale of a certain part is that the part being sold is the best part for the customer's use.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Then please post copies of your results in this thread. There are several Material Composition Tests used throughout the industry, not just one as there are different physical and chemical reactions for different materials (because there are some that may not be known to be present in the samples prior to testing).

If Vogtland is indeed not using a material that's unique from the industry standard CrSi and CrV alloys (which is indeed possible as many valve and suspension springs are made from one of several CrV alloys, even "proprietary" ones), then I'll call them up and politely ask for a refund on my racing springs and refer your tests as such.

GMmexican

iTrader: (7)

I got BMR springs (old design) and I love them, I just wish the front was a little lower......but besides that my car rides well and feels planted, and this is with no front sway bar and cheap shocks. For the price its hard to beat them

UAZ28SS

iTrader: (2)

Right now I have the 1" BMR springs and revalved Bilsteins that I got from you. I ran the springs with the factory DeCarbons for a while until I got the shocks, and like you said, it made a HUGE difference. Would I see any performance difference swapping from the old BMRs to yours with new shocks? My car handles really well right now, but I want more!

Chubbz155

iTrader: (7)

Thanks Sam!!! I will be buying a set of KYB's from you here in a few months!! I can't justify buying Konis right now as much as I would love to!! My car is a street/strip car and I think the KYB's will do me just fine!!! Thanks again!!!!

GMmexican

iTrader: (7)

dont expect to have great launches with koni/stranos

Chubbz155

iTrader: (7)

Why is that?

GMmexican

iTrader: (7)

The spring rate and the weight transfer......on the street and taking turns is where the Koni/strano set up shines above all others, slap on QA1's with there springs and its **** on the street but on the track you will launch way better with it.

tomz28

iTrader: (20)

whats up dude you know i run stock spring in the front and hockis in the rear and im getting some strange coil overs with a 300# spring just what i have going with my car

Black02SLPSS

iTrader: (5)

Apparently there are people cutting 1.6 60ft times with them so they cant be THAT bad for launching on them. Also the rear spring rate isnt that much higher than stock 20#s maybe, but i do understand what your saying as far as weight transfer goes.

toadzq8

iTrader: (43)

I have had BMR and now have Sams springs on my car, I have Sams sway bars and 4/4 Koni's . I like Sams linear spring rate on the front much better, But like the BMR spring on the rear better. I swaped them out a couple of times just to make sure. With Sams springs with nothing in the car they are great but put anything more than a guitar case in the rear they bottom, crank up the Koni's to compensate and they seem to over power the 150lb spring rate. I like to travel and carry stuff alot. With the BMR's and anything in the car I don't bottom out like Sams do. If all you ever put in the car is you and your girl and have desent roads go with Sams springs. and the Koni's. I think Sams spring in a 160lb rate would be perfect for my use. Just my 2Cents.

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

Turning up the konis if you have SA's will increase the rebound only. It shouldn't effect or prevent any compression motion.

You must have a heavy *** guitar too if that has that big of an effect on the suspension.