Alignment Question
11-24-2008, 07:27 PM
#1
Alignment Question I followed Trackbirds alignment specs of:
-1.3 camber
4.5 caster
1/32 toe
when i took it to the alignment shop they took the notes down for that, then called me and said it was impossible to do and that they wouldnt warranty the alignment because it was unsafe for the road and would yield fast tire wear.
so instead of arguing with them i just told them to do whatever to make it work and keep my lifetime alignment.
did i get fucked? because i know there are many people here with those settings. i have suspension mods in sig.
-1.3 camber
4.5 caster
1/32 toe
when i took it to the alignment shop they took the notes down for that, then called me and said it was impossible to do and that they wouldnt warranty the alignment because it was unsafe for the road and would yield fast tire wear.
so instead of arguing with them i just told them to do whatever to make it work and keep my lifetime alignment.
did i get fucked? because i know there are many people here with those settings. i have suspension mods in sig.
Last edited by twitchtwice; 11-24-2008 at 10:56 PM.
11-24-2008, 07:31 PM
#2
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Firestone did the same **** to me.
When I first went there last year, they did whatever they could to suck me in for the lifetime warrenty. Even did the custom specs I gave them.
Last month I had to get my car aligned because of the new K-Member, and they wouldnt do custom specs for me. Said it was against store policy and that they could get sued if I crash or something.
Funny thing was I told the dumb *** there, that NO way can you get my car to stock specs. I have a bunch of suspension mods, and he gave me some bs about he can make anything happen.
Anyways, I walked out of there with a smile on my face, because they couldnt get it anywhere near the stock specs. But they could dial it in to what I requested very easily.
Some advice, go to a performance alignment shop. Firestones, just tires, etc dont do custom ****.
When I first went there last year, they did whatever they could to suck me in for the lifetime warrenty. Even did the custom specs I gave them.
Last month I had to get my car aligned because of the new K-Member, and they wouldnt do custom specs for me. Said it was against store policy and that they could get sued if I crash or something.
Funny thing was I told the dumb *** there, that NO way can you get my car to stock specs. I have a bunch of suspension mods, and he gave me some bs about he can make anything happen.
Anyways, I walked out of there with a smile on my face, because they couldnt get it anywhere near the stock specs. But they could dial it in to what I requested very easily.
Some advice, go to a performance alignment shop. Firestones, just tires, etc dont do custom ****.
11-24-2008, 07:58 PM
#3
Are those the exact specs you gave them?
-1.3 caster
4.5 camber
1/32 toe
Because if they are you got the caster and camber mixed up.
-1.3 degrees of caster would make it really unstable ate highways speeds.
4.5 degrees of of positive camber would be impossibe to achieve on most cars let alone an Fbody. The top of your front tires would be sticking out of the wheel wells by a very noticable amount and would wear the outside edges of the tires horribly.
Read this link, it should give you a basic idea of whats going on.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/wheel_alignment.htm
-1.3 caster
4.5 camber
1/32 toe
Because if they are you got the caster and camber mixed up.
-1.3 degrees of caster would make it really unstable ate highways speeds.
4.5 degrees of of positive camber would be impossibe to achieve on most cars let alone an Fbody. The top of your front tires would be sticking out of the wheel wells by a very noticable amount and would wear the outside edges of the tires horribly.
Read this link, it should give you a basic idea of whats going on.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/wheel_alignment.htm
11-24-2008, 08:07 PM
#4
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I can understand why a shop wouldn't want to do a lifetime alignment with custom specs. Too easy for you to come back and complain about something. Tire wear, stability, etc. I can see them doing it without a warranty, but not on a lifetime alignment deal.
11-24-2008, 08:30 PM
#5
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-1.3 camber is indeed a bit on the agressive side. If I were the owner of a tire shop I wouldn't warranty the tires. The reason is the inside edge would be subject to more abuse. -1 camber is a bit more reasonable for the street, -.5 if you want the tires to last a bit longer or you don't push the car to the brink. Also, toe really eats tires. 0 toe is what I run for that very reason. Unless you are serious about auto-x'ing the car I don't really see a reason to move the toe away from 0.
My current specs are as follows.
-.5 camber
4.5 caster
0 toe
This setting is more for spirited street use. The only thing I would change to make it for agressive street/auto-x use would be to change the camber to -1. If I was running this car as my designated auto-x car then I would put it to the specs you posted earlier... maybe a bit more negative camber.
My current specs are as follows.
-.5 camber
4.5 caster
0 toe
This setting is more for spirited street use. The only thing I would change to make it for agressive street/auto-x use would be to change the camber to -1. If I was running this car as my designated auto-x car then I would put it to the specs you posted earlier... maybe a bit more negative camber.
11-24-2008, 09:29 PM
#7
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They should have seen you mixed up the caster and camber specs and aligned it to your (corrected) specs.
And the tire warranty stuff is BS. No tire is warranteed if it wears an edge down, clearly written in the paperwork.
And 1/32 toe vs 0? come on. With 1/32 I guarantee it goes near maybe past 0 with the brakes on during a normal stop. Bushing deflection.
And the tire warranty stuff is BS. No tire is warranteed if it wears an edge down, clearly written in the paperwork.
And 1/32 toe vs 0? come on. With 1/32 I guarantee it goes near maybe past 0 with the brakes on during a normal stop. Bushing deflection.
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11-24-2008, 09:44 PM
#8
They should have seen you mixed up the caster and camber specs and aligned it to your (corrected) specs.
And the tire warranty stuff is BS. No tire is warranteed if it wears an edge down, clearly written in the paperwork.
And 1/32 toe vs 0? come on. With 1/32 I guarantee it goes near maybe past 0 with the brakes on during a normal stop. Bushing deflection.
And the tire warranty stuff is BS. No tire is warranteed if it wears an edge down, clearly written in the paperwork.
And 1/32 toe vs 0? come on. With 1/32 I guarantee it goes near maybe past 0 with the brakes on during a normal stop. Bushing deflection.
11-24-2008, 10:35 PM
#9
man i feel for you when my car is aligned to stock specs the outsides of my tires will be gone and ready to explode and the insides will be perfect
no one will town will align the car to specs other than stock. they will claim they they dont know how or can't.
why? your just turning it to a number.... the specs would have to be brutally off (more than ever designed for any form of performance alignment) to cause a wreck. like 15 degrees from a bent control arm or something.
no one will town will align the car to specs other than stock. they will claim they they dont know how or can't.
why? your just turning it to a number.... the specs would have to be brutally off (more than ever designed for any form of performance alignment) to cause a wreck. like 15 degrees from a bent control arm or something.
11-25-2008, 09:00 AM
#10
BTW, I wouldn't run "zero" toe-in. As the car rolls down the road, there is a certain amount of drag created by the tires. This drag effects the toe setting, therefore "toe-in" is dialed into the static setting, so the toe approaches "zero" as the car is being driven. Starting at "zero" toe causes the car to "toe-out" while being driven.
Years ago, before radial tires were prevalent, cars had a lot more static toe-in, as the bias tires had a lot more rolling resistance. Radials roll a lot easier, hence the reduced toe-in spec for late model cars. However, some of that rolling effect is negated by the use of a really wide tire.
11-26-2008, 10:13 PM
#11
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Not necessarily.... I installed the Eibach pro-Kit on my '96 Z-28 back when the car was new. I had to lenghten the slots in the frame, in order to allow proper setting of the camber. So, while I agree that most shops will back away from anything other than the "green" band of the alignment machine's video display, sometimes, they aren't actually "BSing" you, when they say that they can't get it set.
BTW, I wouldn't run "zero" toe-in. As the car rolls down the road, there is a certain amount of drag created by the tires. This drag effects the toe setting, therefore "toe-in" is dialed into the static setting, so the toe approaches "zero" as the car is being driven. Starting at "zero" toe causes the car to "toe-out" while being driven.
Years ago, before radial tires were prevalent, cars had a lot more static toe-in, as the bias tires had a lot more rolling resistance. Radials roll a lot easier, hence the reduced toe-in spec for late model cars. However, some of that rolling effect is negated by the use of a really wide tire.
BTW, I wouldn't run "zero" toe-in. As the car rolls down the road, there is a certain amount of drag created by the tires. This drag effects the toe setting, therefore "toe-in" is dialed into the static setting, so the toe approaches "zero" as the car is being driven. Starting at "zero" toe causes the car to "toe-out" while being driven.
Years ago, before radial tires were prevalent, cars had a lot more static toe-in, as the bias tires had a lot more rolling resistance. Radials roll a lot easier, hence the reduced toe-in spec for late model cars. However, some of that rolling effect is negated by the use of a really wide tire.
btw I get very good milage from my tires (40 k more or less , perfect wear, uniform all around) running about o to +.5 camber, 4-4 1/2 caster, 1/32-1/16 toe
my $ .02 Johnny
11-26-2008, 10:48 PM
#12
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I am not a" know- it-all ", I do agree with leadfood4, as I "have been there done that" (10 cars a day=50 per wk=2600 per year x 30 years =78,000 units or there about)even this does not sound right ,even to me , but I checked my math twice
btw I get very good milage from my tires (40 k more or less , perfect wear, uniform all around) running about o to +.5 camber, 4-4 1/2 caster, 1/32-1/16 toe
my $ .02 Johnny
btw I get very good milage from my tires (40 k more or less , perfect wear, uniform all around) running about o to +.5 camber, 4-4 1/2 caster, 1/32-1/16 toe
my $ .02 Johnny
11-26-2008, 11:24 PM
#13
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na, I like +, - is good for auto x or twistes as you will have better control in eather, but for normal street or stright line I like + camber
again I state this is only my .02s, Johnny
ps I will add that I run 40-44 in tires at all times,yes it rides harsh, but I get great milage and if you are close you may examine my tires for evan wear, this set has 40 k and very evan wear left to right and front to back, and IF you find any uneven wear I will buy you a set of tires
Last edited by SS SLP2; 11-26-2008 at 11:30 PM.
11-27-2008, 06:20 PM
#17
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I dissagree .5 camber is more than noticeable. .5 caster... not so much. I ran at factory spec for a long time and kept getting pissed at how the outside of my tires constantly wore out early. -.5 keeps the tires running longer and handles noticeably better. -1 handles even better but can wear a bit early on the inside. -1.5 is awesome for corners but will absolutely wear the tires prematurely. Just my experience from my cars and others I have driven with similar mods.
11-28-2008, 01:57 PM
#18
..... -.5 keeps the tires running longer and handles noticeably better. -1 handles even better but can wear a bit early on the inside. -1.5 is awesome for corners but will absolutely wear the tires prematurely. Just my experience from my cars and others I have driven with similar mods.
You'd better tell "Monello".....
