silver30th

iTrader: (13)

as winter approached, i threw around the idea of doing a heads/cam combo on my car, but ultimately decided against it...

i've decided to focus on just a few more things, mainly suspension/handling. all i have left to do for appearance is tint, and maybe centermount in the future

what i am looking for is a suspension set up that would compliment the spirited driver (probably wont be going to the track much, if any [best one is 4+hours away], yet dont want a full-out autocross feel). i'd like to maintain a comfortable ride, while at the same time improving the handling

so far im thinking strano springs and either bilstein/koni and perhaps some sway bars and maybe a panhard bar

so, school me on what would be best/ideal

SimRacer1

Im in the same boat as you man, I dont want a full on racetrack/autocross setup, as its not a hardcore racer, but I need something thats definately in that direction. Definetely koni shocks and strano springs and stiffer front and rear arbs. After that I dont know. Whenever i read about suspension settings for race cars its always, springs, dampers (shock absorbers aka shocks), antiroll bars, camber, toe, caster, and then the fast bump/rebound on the dampers and the slow rebound of the dampers, oh and then ride height/rake angle.

I have never heard of any race cars adjusting/changing their pandhard bars, or their torque arms, or subframe connectors, or lower control arms, in order to get different handling characteristics and balance. Ive never even heard of these parts on a race car (road course race cars that is).

Even on racing simulators I have never even seen those parts listed anywhere in the setup menu although i do see camber, toe, caster, arb front and rear, shocks f/r, springs f/r, shock bump and rebound for slow and fast f/r, even in high end Formula cars like F1 cars i see adjustemnts for some kinda spring called a 3rd spring which is mostly for tiny fine adjustmens, theres brake pad thickness and brake vent size, differential settings for coast(off throattle), on throttle and preload, i could keep going on, BUT i have never ever seen anything for a panhard bar, torque arm, etc etc

I would say contact sam strano and tell him exactly what you want and he should be a VERY good guide from what i heard from others, thats what im going to do when im ready.

silver30th

iTrader: (13)

yeah, i have the funds now, but its that time of year where i have to spend it on other people

sam will definitely be the guy i go to, though

bowtiekid

iTrader: (2)

I would def. do strano springs, with whatever choice of shocks. Probably sway bars or LCA's some nice tubular control arms. Panhard rod.

IIRC a good setup is 1LE rear sway with a strano front sway bar.

BMR UMI or Spohn are all great companies and Im pretty sure Sam stocks all those.

Hope this helps!

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

#1. Slp Bilsteins up front with G.C. adj ride sleeves with 400-475 lb./in. springs, this is based on a mild drop 0-1" MAX. For the rear;Strano bilsteins with factory springs w/"hose mod" .this should be good for ride, and handling with a mild drop.
#2. Koni SAs front and rear, with factory F&R springs. Lower perch of front and hose mod in the rear.

If you want to go lower than 1" get the strano springs or what ever brand you prefer. But remember that means stiffer springs, and a harsher ride on the not so smooth roads.

If you want a adjustable ride height sleeves that are way better than the G.C. ones, get the GlobalWest sleeves they cost more but their really worth it! IMO!

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

I'd strongly advise you guys to not get hung up on the whole autox race setup means bad ride quality. It doesn't. If you admit you don't understand the suspension much, then enter this world with an open mind and throw out all your assumptions.

If you think you will be changing springs in the future, I recommend koni SA shocks hands down. These are very comfortable shocks. I believe that most of the people who said they are too harsh are not setting/installing them correctly. The compression setting is not too stiff and the rebound can be adjusted through a wide range so I don't understand how you can't make the konis work the way you feel they are most comfortable...

I've had stock/stock, koni/stock, and koni/strano setups. Keep in mind I'm only one person giving an opinion, though I do have about 5 years of experience autoxing as well as owning the car as a daily for 8 years.

In my opinion the koni/strano combination is more comfortable than the following car's stock suspension: 2008 BMW 335i with sport package, 2003 BMW M3 with 19 inch wheels package, 2005 Subaru WRX STI

It's not more comfortable than: 2007 Honda Civic EX, 2004 Acura TSX, Honda Accords, 2004 Hyundai Elantra (although the seating in my Camaro is better than the Hyundai and the Civic)

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

As a reminder, I'm always happy (and prefer) to talk to people by phone...

There are many ways to work a car for the better. You shouldn't think so much about what parts you "should use", as what you want to see as a result, and pick the parts that way. That's how I work with customers, as it gets rid of preconcieved (and often incorrect) notions.

Could you do any of the above? Sure you could... how do you decide? That's where I come in. My job isn't just to sell parts. Frankly I pride myself on actually helping people with information pertinent to their situations, as well as taking the time to want to know about their situation.

z28bryan is a customer of mine, and I'm thankful that he feels as passionately as he does that he takes the time give his opinion. But many give their opinions, he (and other customers of mine) take the time to explain their opinion, their background information. You don't often see a lot of my customers saying something generic like "I did this, and it's great" and no other detail to support or show why they think it's so great in comparison to something else.

And what's more is he's right. Assumptions aren't good. And many assume because my handling setups are based from my autocrossing that the car must ride like ***. Just because a lot of others go off the deep end with spring rates and such doesn't mean I do. In fact I've repeatedly won National Championships over cars with springs up to 4 times stiffer than stock..... Mine aren't like that, and in fact are a bit softer rate than some common street springs. On the other side of that coin, too soft is bad because you ride around on the bumpstops and that rides worse than a bit firmer spring.

silver30th

iTrader: (13)

thanks for all the input everyone

considering this isn't my daily driver, i would most definitely be open to an array of possibilities

stock, these cars just feel sloppy...i'd be willing to sacrifice a i bit of ride quality

anyways, i hope to go ahead and start upgrading some of these parts come spring, and sam, i'll most likely be giving you a ring

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

A car that rides like *** generally also handles like crap. There is a difference between firm, and harsh--just something to bear in mind.

I see you are in Lincoln NE... you konw they do autox there, and in fact the Solo National Championships are moving there next year. You might look into to local SCCA region and get started if you are interested as it's not 4 hours away to go (they run @ the Airpark).

The cars are sloppy stock, and that's more than anything the fault of the shocks. And that's why I'm so adamant about good dampers.... they matter, and they are primarily "what's wrong".

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

This doesn't always go hand in hand either. It could.. It might not. It depends on the preference of the driver. If you go softer then you impact the bumpstops faster. If you go with stiffer springs you slow down the impact into the bumpstops or even prevent it alltogether depending on how stiff the springs are and your suspension travel AND the shock absorber settings. Going in either extreme will hurt ride quality and probably performance in many cases as well. The trick is to balance it all out. It's not easy to do.

SIK02SS

iTrader: (11)

i'd add my comments in....but they would read like Sam and z28Bryan

i have Sams springs, F+R sways and Koni 4/4s. it's night and day difference from stock and imo more comfortable. i hated the floaty feel you got with the stock setup and the iffy feeling you get in your stomach coming up to a "spirited" higher speed corner because you're not exactly sure how the car is going to react this time. with Sams setup, it simply works, and work how you want it to. the cars feels like it should have from the factory and is not overblown (uncomfy). i used to DD the car and my complaints are: not enough support in the stock seats (broke my back a few years ago and i'm 6'3), and my exhaust is really loud ( ). i've hit some serious pot-holes in LA that i couldnt see at night and thought i should have broken something, but rather the shocks did there job and for how big of a hole it was, it wasn't nearly as uncomfortable as it could've been.

i don't run auto-x (though i'd like to get into it), i drive through the canyons and periodically do track days in the Camaro and also do amateur vintage racing in old formula style cars (open cockpit/open wheel cars). in the canyons, i was running with some modified Porsches, Maserati, and Lotus this last weekend and they couldn't shake me, in fact i passed 1 porsche bc he was holding me up, and would have passed the maserati and lotus but didnt want to sand blast them with my NT01s. i use the hell out of the car in the canyons and it performs great..

as far as LCAs and PHR and TA etc....LCAs really wont benefit you, so you're better off either looking for some 1LE LCAs or getting some Moog bushings for your stockers. you CAN need to adjust them if you do serious competitive racing and adjust the angle of the rear axle. say you're on a track like Pheonix Int Raceway doing the infield where it is predominantly left hand turns, you can (slightly) adjust the axle to help the car turn better....though i'm sure a lot of people just leave it alone. PHR is needed if you lower your car bc its not an IRS car...when you lower the rear, the axle naturally settles down to one side and you need to center it under the car. and i cant help ya with the TA, i don't know a lot about them other then full length is better then short

ok, so i added my comments in

now call Sam

Kingc8r

iTrader: (21)

Subscribing, good info in here

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

I was generalizing, And assuming All else was equal.

Plus, one of the first things he stated was: "i'd like to maintain a comfortable ride, while at the same time improving the handling"

I fully understand what you're saying, and agree!
But I feel I gave him some reasonable options, which IMO, he should be aware of.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

The way to maintain the best ride and get better handling is not with lowering springs at all. While it's clear many don't dislike the ride with a proper set of springs and dampers, the fact reamains that lowering a car, and stiffening a car both are not things you'd do under the guise of ride quality.

I make no bones about the fact I think shocks are the Number 1 thing that these cars need, not springs. In fact I think the swaybars are a more effective handling tool that doesn't firm the ride like springs do, but they also don't lower the car which many folks want.

Yes, coil-overs exist, but they are not a panacea part. You are still limited by the ride height you choose and the spring rates you have. My springs are derived from the rates (and heights) I ran on my coil-overs after years of trying different combinations for the best performance. They might not be the exact look someone wants, but most seem to like them and I'm more a function over form person myself. I simply thought it was time to incorporate some of my knowledge into a easier to deal with and less costly spring solution that had a proven record of results. So I had my springs made..

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

1. Call Sam
2. Get Konis and his sway bars
3. Install with alignment
4. Call Sam back and talk about SFCs, PHB, LCAs, springs - you may or may not need them, but may want them once you start suspension mods.

Keep in mind - You use suspension mods 100% of the time, not just when you go WOT.

Bucksbadz

I think one of the items that have been over looked is the PHB. If you drop the car, with the stock PHB installed the rear end will shift to one side. Now most rear ends from the factory arn't centered to the car. Now I do have Strano springs but they are still on the crappy stock shocks. On the rough roads of Hawaii I have never hit the bumpstops with Sam's springs. Ive also only had one person complain about the ride and thats only because she has some bad back problems and the road we were on is in bad shape. The car is more responsive, corners flater, and in my opinion has a smoother ride. I agree with the majority of the posts and I would say shocks first. If you want the look of a lowered car then Sam's springs are right there with the best of them, and then get a PHR.

silver30th

iTrader: (13)

i've tossed the idea around, as i know a few people who are really into auto-x

again, thank you everyone for all your input...i didn't think i'd get so many good responses

and sam, will i be seeing you here in the cornhusker state?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Come September for sure... it's Nationals, the big game for us.

I might be there for a scheduled ProSolo earlier in the year too, but that's still TBD.

SimRacer1

Cant wait till I get this damn WS6, im gonna go suspension CRAZY!! , like crazy as in I might even get the watts link rear end (heard its the best thing to do to a solid axle suspension when it comes to handling/roadcourse racing)

What is an adjustable ride height sleeve though, obviosuly its something to use to adjust the ride height, but is it more just for looks or is this another performance suspension product??