It fascinates me how people (or sheep) propogate to the newest and bestest without regard for the actual affect of a component.

Let's talk about camber settings for just a moment, using it strictly as an example.

I try -1.9* and am loving life.

A competitor tries -2.0* and makes a claim he has "discovered" something that will solve most of mankind's problems ... at least those related to turn in.

I notice his laptimes were a couple tenths quicker than mine, so it's obvious this "new" camber setting is THE hot setup.

So, I yank out my turn plates, the Longacre C/C gauge and readjust camber and toe.

Disappointment ensues as I am now locking up the fronts.

So who is to blame in this scenario?

Me for being a lemming?

Or my competitor for telling me about it?

Moral of the story? Do your homework.

 

I don't know Mitch.. you're breaking down. I noticed you had considered or bought something from Sam a few weeks ago, and now this!

 

The earth stood still that day. But, fortunately, the sun did rise. <grin>

Sam and I have our differences of opinion. And there is nothing wrong with that. I trust what I learn and not so much what someone tells me.

 

Well, since you can't know until you try (or get a
review) there's nothing much to counter the hype
(er, highly factual marketing literature) on the new
New Thing. When all the "information" is one sided,
that is what people end up believing. Wishful thinking
does the rest.

 

I totally agree with mitch here and where this thread is headed.

Even though there's really not a lot that can be done with regards to revising the mass amount of information around this forum, it would be nice to see more posts that are at least objective, technical (layman's and/or advanced), and less simplistic praise, wisecracks, and flame throwing.

For this section (braking and handling), I always ask myself, "does one want to improve their performance based upon factual sense or just simply an emotional sense?"

 

Ditto. And I think I've learned well, and made a lot of folks happy by passing on what I've learned.

I can't imagine how .1 degree of camber change suddenly took away so much contact patch that you now lock tires all over the place. That seems really, really strange since -1.9 is a good bit of camber to start with. But I'm glad you like -1.9, I've been saying for years that there is no need for massive amounts of camber in these cars. In fact I have -1.8 and it's fine for my autoxing needs.

And fwiw, I rarely tell anyone something uneqivocally. I tend to ask question and have a discussion with them, and I believe there are different ways to make a car work. I have my preferences as we all do, and am more than willing to explain why I feel as I do.

And you should consider that maybe -2 does work better for that other guy, and that even if you try and 100% copy a setup, there are variances in cars and parts (even in tires).

 

We are in imaginary world now. You know, where metaphores and examples are generated, not necessarily based upon real world physics.

You need to lighten up a bit. Have a stiff drink ... enjoy life for a while. You deserve it.

 

Whatever---

I said I find it odd, not impossible.

 

subscribing

 

I agree with you guys for the most part. But what is the guy with no knowledge or experience gonna do when he comes on here? Is he gonna just start buying stuff and trying different springs based upon his own butt test only and disregard anyones advice probably wasting a ton of money and time in the process, or go with a good starting point that someone with lots of experience recommends? I think it's smart to be what Mitch refers to as a "lemming" when you're a novice... as long as you are going to the right people. I do this with anything.. not just cars, but anything in life.

And I think wisecracks make things interesting and should loosen people up a bit

 

BINGO! And how do you know who the right person is? DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

It's not me ... I've only won 2 regional championships and been doing this for 10 years. So, I'm just a rookie.

I don't proclaim to be an expert nor do I pretend to understand all I know. But I do know root cause analysis techniques and use them to define issues.

I also hate to be at the mercy of another person to "help" me. It's important for me to know what I'm getting into. Tell me why and then how.

Finally, I have a long, Long, LONG memory. And when I feel as though I have been screwed over, I seldom let that go.

Maybe that's just me ...

And finally, to tag onto what Bryan said, this is just the internet. It has very little to do with real life. So loosen up and have fun with it.

 

I also try to help when I can, and try not to give out misinformation I have no local autox event trophies out of the 5 years I've been doing it. 3 of those years though I couldn't have qualified, and I could have gotten 2nd last year on my 400 hp SM Camaro running on 555 Nitto street tires if I had done an extra event in that particular class. I really think I can win my class this year though in my 09 WRX. I doubt I'll ever have ambitions for the nationals. The only thing I've won before is my hillbilly spectator drags, which I like to believe is the best of both worlds of drag and handling with a bit of stupidity tossed in there.

 

And I, for one, appreciate your attitude about all this.

None of us ... well most of us ... don't "race" for a living. It's just a hobby and hobbies are supposed to be relaxing, entertaining and fun. If it's stressfull, then one is probably doing this for the wrong reason.

I can name folks who are willing to spend stoopid amounts of cash and then willing to spend it all in one corner, racing for a $4.99 trophy and internet bragging rights.

Hey, I'm proof positive that it doesn't take much to be annoying on the interweb! Here on the web and on the track, perspectives become compromised way too often.

As far as stupidity, look what happens when a buch of us racers get to the track and it rains cats and dogs for 24 hours. When racers, fueled by Pabst Blue Ribbon and Schlitz, become idle, "perspectives" get twisted ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2KbH9EqAVA

 

And that's what it's all about

 

I compete because I love to compete and drive cars at the limit. When I started, I SUCKED--I learned everything through hard work and experience. In fact after 2 years racing I went to Nationals the first time and finished...... 52nd out of 57 cars that ran in my class. My co-driver was 28th and I was over 5 seconds per course off the winner. That was in 1995. I put my head down, dedicated myself to doing what needed done and when I went back in 1997 I was 7th and that's as low as I've finished since then. Since 2002 I've won all 5 of my National titles, all 4 of my ProSolo titles, been on the cover of GMHTP magazine, SportsCar magazine, done suspension setups on cars for articles in both magazines. Been featured in an article in AutoWeek a few years back and some trade magazines too.

Fast forward to now. I don't race for money. If I did I'd be in a Mazda, Toyota, Honda because they pay when you win National events. Last year I won about $4k worth of Hoosier tires, and the year before that much in tires and $1000 from Ford. The tires I win just keeps me in tires, I don't sell them and make money--I use them. And becaue I race and test a lot more than most with more than one driver, I go through more tires than most do. PLUS, doing what I do and winning shows people that I have a clue because it's kind of hard to win when the car sucks. Why do I race? For the love is. It just happends I'm good at it, win at it, have a business that links into it and benefits from being good at it. And I get to write a lot of it off as advertising too.

Nobody cared what I had to say when I was slow, and my business was very different then. When I got fast, and consistenly so, and started doing winning setup in a variety of cars folks wanted my help, and the business is now what it is today--much more performance handling oriented.

Just wanted to get that out there for those that think I was handed everything on silver platter.

 

Never thought it was a sliver one, more of a steel belted one covered in rubber.