dragonrage

A lot of us believe they are not necessary.

mrsracing

iTrader: (1)

Why do you believe that? Interested in hearing the reason why.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Wow.... With that kind of detail and blanket statement how can I argue?

Wait, here's how. Ask most anyone with Koni's, even with lowering springs and Koni's in a lot of cases if the ride didn't IMPROVE and the answer will be in most every instance "yes".

Who knows what car they were talking about? What damper (there are different levels of Koni's for various cars). Where were they set? What springs were they used with? Were the springs and shocks installed together? If so how can they qualify the shocks to be the culprit.

I'm sorry, but I have little patience for vague all encompassing statements like "Koni's ride exceptionally harsh" without any rational to support.

JD_AMG

Other companies claim their shocks are "ok" to use with lowering springs, but I guess it all depends on your definition of "ok."
Some people think its crazy that someone would spend money on a Corvette when you could buy a cavilier for so much cheaper. They are both Chevy cars with 4 wheels and can drive the speed limit, whats the difference right?
For those who don't think the shocks are worth it let me just make it simple for you. I would never own another fbody without at least konis.

From what I've read and experienced the trade off between ride quality and "chassis stiffness" leaves a LOT to be desired. Most people (including myself) couldn't tell the difference between SFC's and no SFCs. On the same roads I drive all the time (various roads, most in poor condition) and in driveways the only difference I could tell between the Fbodies that had SFCs and the ones that did not was more jarring rear ride quality on the car with the SFC's. Other than that the car (still on stock shocks) exhibited the perceived "flex" (where the rear feels planted yet the front feels loose and appears to be twisting) with the SFC's because it still had the stock shocks. The problem is the rear has too much compression, and the front doesn't have enough rebound. This causes the front to feel floaty and loose, and the rear to feel overly stiff and make the car feel disconnected like the front and rear are separate. After installing konis this feeling of "disconnectedness" went completely away and the car felt like one very solid piece(and ofcourse the handling and ride dramatically improved). My car ended up feeling[and handling and riding] WAY better than the cars with SFC's and stock shocks.

PMD Power

Wow I didn't think my thread would blossom into this, but it looks like Koni's are the way to go. I do not have SFC's on my car, and nor do I notice much flex. My main reason for the change is knowing the DeCarbons are basically ill-matched for the Prokit and since I'd be taking it all apart anyway to swap the shocks, may aswell put in new springs.

I've thought of adding SFC's, but I'd be at risk of ground clearance plus the addtional harshness. Once I get my G5 sold I'll be ordering from Sam in addtion to sway's and ball joint/tie rods

ThumperNC24

iTrader: (1)

don't buy the LS1 pro kit either.

They seem to have terrible quality issues, and their rates are not really desirable.

If you don't want to wait for strano springs, call strano up and see what he recommends. He pointed me at the LT1 pro kit, car being an LS1 or not.

mrsracing

iTrader: (1)

Sam, it's hard to communicate on this forum the quality of the shop and what I really meant but I understand your response. I love getting the feedback here both positive and negative. I'm really torn about the SFC's? This is the first time I've heard folks be anything but positive about SFC's. Sam what's your take? I doubt I'll ever get to a point where I'm pushing the car hard enough to hurt something from not having them. More input on feel of Koni's vs. stock and SFC.,.......

ItsGone97

[QUOTE=JD_AMG;11547120]Other companies claim their shocks are "ok" to use with lowering springs, but I guess it all depends on your definition of "ok."


"Some people think its crazy that someone would spend money on a Corvette when you could buy a cavilier for so much cheaper. They are both Chevy cars with 4 wheels and can drive the speed limit, whats the difference right?
For those who don't think the shocks are worth it let me just make it simple for you. I would never own another fbody without at least konis."

Not very good logic here. Using it you could make the same comparison between a Ferrari Enzo and a corvette.... like the corvette and the cavilier, their is a big difference. But who in the hell can afford a ferrari? Just because one is better doesnt mean everyone will want it. Everyone reading this knows that if you dont draw lines during your build.. you will end up with 15 grand in your car instead of the 8 grand you planned on.

I would like to see a poll on the number of modded f-bodies that even see an autocross or road course, where koni's shine and u can utilize them. My money says it isnt very many and the ones that do, do it on rare occasions.

The fact is it was said that only Koni makes shocks for lowered cars. This is not true, period.

JD_AMG

Its the same exact logic you were using. There is a big difference between konis and some cheap shocks, and not just in tire roaring handling.

Yes you can skimp out on certain areas of the build, but its stupid to skimp out on something as important as shocks.
Would you build a high power dragster and run cheap narrow tires in the rear? No difference.

And here in lies the misinformation, while konis shine on the race track they also shine on the street with all the different road surfaces and imperfections, THIS is where you can utilize them. It doesn't matter if you race or not, its about CONTROL and konis provide the superior control.

ItsGone97

JD - I dont get it... you want to argue and dispute about all this bs. It was said in the thread that Koni is the only company who makes shocks for lowered cars. THis is not true. THAT IS THE "MISINFORMATION". As far as the quality.... yea, Bilsteen makes some real trash. I think that you should go to their plant and tell them how to make a better shock, because they are obviously incompetent.

Your comparison between a dragster with skinny tires and Koni shocks is f-ing hilarious. Not even in the same realm. BigTires on a drag car are required, like a steering wheel. 800 dollar shocks on a street car are a luxury (and an unecessary luxury at that).

THere is another thing that is going on with these shocks... that is the average persons confusion with something that "feels" good and something that actually handles better. To make it short and simple... take a race-prepped (road racing) Zo6 with coilovers, large sway bars, poly mounts ect.. out on the street and see how it "feels". LMFAO... most people would hate it and say it "rides to rough" or is "darty".... does that mean it doesnt handle as good??????

Koni's are a great product, hell im even considering buying some, but they are not the only one out there. If you take two equal f-bodies out on a road course and one has konis and the other has bilsteens, the winner will be the better DRIVER 100% of the time. Just because you blew 800 dollars on your shocks, doesnt mean you have to defend them to the death, and doesnt mean everyone else will need/want to follow suit.

dragonrage

Koni is the only brand FOR OUR CAR that works well with lowering springs. Other brands will wear prematurely.

ItsGone97

THere is no way to know if this is true or not... im pretty sure nobody has ever taken all of the available shocks and put 20,000 IDENTICAL miles on an IDENTICAL setup on each shock, recorded the wear based off of some mysterious standard that they come up with, and then been able to come up with a comparison. All we have is other peoples opinions... shocks can wear out prematurely for many reasons.

Besides.... I thought we were supposed to buy KONI's because of their superior handling qualities.. not beause they last longer. IF it is because of wear... you can buy 2 sets of other brands shocks and still pay less than one set of KONIs, and I doubt that even you would try to make the arguement that KONIs last more than twice as long.

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

Great point. I was going to say the same thing only not as well stated as this, except that I've never tried the AGX shocks.

I would put on SFC's on my car, but only after shocks have been upgraded for any 4th gen application. As long as I wasn't running it in some sort of F-stock class. #1 reason for the SFC's would be for the jack points.

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

I would agree that Konis are the only "affordable" (in my definition of affordable) brand shock that probably works well with lowering springs. But premature wear isn't the reason why most of the others are bad. For the ones that couldn't dampen lowering springs good enough in the first place, they might make their performance go from "bad" to "worse". KYB's are noted to have strong enough damping capability to overdampen, but the problem is the annoying one **** that adjusts both compression and rebound at the same time. Compression and rebound have two different jobs and are controlling two different things.

I believe there is uncharted waters out there for other shocks that can satisfy people's spring damping needs. Sam is probably the one who has tried more setups than 99.9999% of the people on this message board. But I'm sure there are still shocks that even Sam hasn't tried out that could be good. You can see his recommendations change over time for certain parts. The thing with Konis is they provide great damping, are built great, have incredible reputation across all cars, and great warranty.. so there's less need to look for other shocks that might be the same money or more and accomplish the same job.

ItsGone97

"I believe there is uncharted waters out there for other shocks that can satisfy people's spring damping needs. Sam is probably the one who has tried more setups than 99.9999% of the people on this message board. But I'm sure there are still shocks that even Sam hasn't tried out that could be good. You can see his recommendations change over time for certain parts. The thing with Konis is they provide great damping, are built great, have incredible reputation across all cars, and great warranty.. so there's less need to look for other shocks that might be the same money or more and accomplish the same job.[/QUOTE]"

+1 for someone else who is not a sheep

JD_AMG

You're right, literally saying konis are the "only shocks you can use" is a false statement because you can use whatever shock will fit. What should have been said was "konis are the best to use with lowering springs."

When did I bad mouth bilstiens quality? As far as Im concerned they make fine quality shocks, but that doesn't mean they can handle lowering springs well. Build quality and the shocks dampening rates are not the same thing.

In what way are big tires required? Can you not drive the car on normal tires? What you are getting at is you cannot drive the car to its full extent without tires that give you traction, am I right? SAME THING. Without shocks that can damper the spring you use you cannot drive the car to its full potential because it will be more sloppy and unforgiving than it should be. The stock shocks are a perfect example, when pushing the car it would love to bob around and do a hula dance, and any little road imperfection would upset it and cause snap oversteer, you could never use all the grip it had because the car got nervous when been pushed. With just the konis the car begged to be pushed harder, all the nervous movements were gone and the car was planted like a true sports car, you can drive it gracefully at the limit. And when you push it too hard the car slowly begins to oversteer which is easily corrected by a snap of the steering wheel. Try that with the stockers and you spinout...
It could also be said that a 345hp engine in a street car is an unnecessary luxury as well...

I've been in a "road race" coil-over C5 with a rollbar, the car actually rode really nice. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here...

Not seeing your point here either, you could take a bone stock civic and beat a fbody on a road course with the right driver.
Again this isn't just about who can take the turn the fastest, its also about how stable and composed the car is, what the car does when it breaks traction[around a turn] (and how fast it reacts etc.), and how easy the car is to drive hard.

I'm not trying to defend them at all, I'm just showing why they are said to be "ideal".

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Anyone who knows me, knows that I would never say that you can only run Koni's--that's it, and nothing else. I *SELL* other shocks. There are customers of mine on this forum that have bought AGX's, Bilstein, Tokico's too. So let's not pretend the sky is falling and start making stuff up.....

Further, the title of this thread has my name in it, asking about what shocks to run with STRANO springs. You'd think that maybe the guy who developed the springs would have a better idea what works best with them? Nah, this is the internet and everyone knows best!

Your argument about the better driver "winning" has no merit here. Shocks might make a car faster, they might not. But the better the valving is the more predictable the car is and the easier the car is to drive fast. And hell, if the ride is better too, what's the downside? Oh yeah, the cost. Well like most things in life you get what you pay for. I think it's humorous that people are surprised by that. And fwiw, what do you think happens when the better driver gets in the better car? He's that much faster...... I wonder how many drag racers don't mod their cars because they can beat some clueless bastard with a lot of stuff done?

Seems to me that cars are individual things. They are different colors, have different wheels, are used in different ways. Are parts that are put on a car any different? You have choices with most things. Where you live. House? Apartment? Condo? what you drive... what you wear, what you eat.... Some choices are better for some people, some choice that you might find good for your could suck for someone else. In the end, make your own *educated* decision based on your needs and wants.

In closing, I'll also add you get a lot of feedback from folks with Koni's. In fact in this thread you have that sort of feedback. Moreover many have had other shocks before to get a sense of comparison separate from what evil Sam Strano tells you. You know how the guy on top has the target on his back? This happens with parts too. In the end, if you are torn between parts I suggest you read the statements of those that had experience with multiple setups closely and judge from their statements.... If you can't compare the only thing you can do is ask someone(s) who can.

rcoers

iTrader: (6)

I love my Koni and Strano setup. The customer service I received from him was top notch, he took the time to explain to a newb how best to set my car up. I'll take his word for it that Konis work best.

ThumperNC24

iTrader: (1)

bilstein says themselves not to use their shocks on lowering springs....no one said they aren't a quality shock, they are great for comfortable riding stock ride height applications.

Konis don't just handle better the last longer as well. Omg a shock can do more than one thing well! They also ride a hell of a lot better than stock, and I would guess better than AGXs too, although I have never used agx so I can't say for sure.

z28byran and Foxxtron have stated it very well..

ItsGone97

[QUOTE=ThumperNC24;11555514]bilstein says themselves not to use their shocks on lowering springs....no one said they aren't a quality shock, they are great for comfortable riding stock ride height applications.


Bilstein makes and sells shocks for lowered cars.... they sell them with lowering spring kits also. Im sure they would sell something they wouldnt advise putting on your car???????? Do some research outside of ls1tech.

YESSSS!!! How did I know that if I ever dared come out and say anything about KONI's, everyone and their dog who spent 800 dollars on their shocks would come out and bash me... its ok... I have wide shoulders. Sam, of course everyone has nothing but good things to say about KONI's... would you say anything bad about something you paid twice as much as market price for? I have been sitting back and watching everyone jump on the bandwagon and shout everyone down for awhile now... KONIs are not the only option, and you can set up a car without KONIs to handle better than one with KONIs.... its been done, its a fact, deal with it. Their is more than one way to skin a cat, and you dont need to spend 800 dollars on f-ing shocks to have a sleek, smooth ride. Its just like a lot of other products on LS1.... everyone jumps on the bandwagon and then, thats it, thats the only thing you can buy for your car.

SAM and JD: my argument about the better driver does hold water. It simply points out the fact that shocks are not the be all and end all, and that there are many factors going into how your car handles.

JD- by saying that nobody but KONIs makes good shocks for f-bodies... you are bashing Bilsteins.. because they are ONE other brand that makes shocks for our LOWERED cars.

I think you guys are all a bunch of cheap asses anyways... why dont you go buy a real shock and get some Penske's. I mean, its better, and you wouldnt want to cut any corners would you????? While your at it, get coil overs.... wait... gut your car, light cars handle better right? If you people cant see that everyone has to decide how much money/time they want to spend on their cars, I am wasting my time. If you guys cared so much about handling, you wouldnt even own an f-body. If you want to go around a track fast, go buy a Y-body and stop wasting your time.

THIS whole thing is a GodDamn joke anyways... I mean.. come on. Their are people on this website who cut their f-ing springs because they dont want to "waste" money on lowering springs. That is how much they care about spending money on their handling. Many others have stock shocks on the front and qa1's on the back because all they care about is going straight. To act like everyone should have KONI's and say things like "KONI is the only company that makes shocks for our cars" or "I wouldnt even own another F-Body without KONI's" give me a damn break... go make out with your rip-off shocks and leave the rest of us to not be sheep and find our own ways to be fast.

All I have been trying to do is make the point that there are other options besides KONIs. ANd you guys are so f-ing insecure that you cant even let me make that point. If KONIs were so "worth it", you wouldnt spend the time it has taken to defend them to some dumbass like me.

Sam- Never once did I say anything bad about your products or KONIs for that matter. I have repeatedly said that they are good shocks, only that there are others available... ones that you sell as a matter of fact. I understand that the OP was asking about the best shocks to go with his STRANOS; I was responding to the ignorance of the proceding posts. I really dont even know why you are responding to me.....