Strut-Tower Brace?
08-12-2010, 04:56 PM
#101
I asked a guy about the alleged window issue who had a 3pt STB -- said he never had an issue... Never seen any photos of a cracked window from one either -- urban legend? Anyone have this happen to them and have a picture?
Last edited by libertyforall1776; 08-12-2010 at 10:04 PM.
08-13-2010, 12:52 PM
#103
Launching!
Well yeah..... but luckily the car had a STB and was therefore MUCH more planted when he missed the highway exit for the show.
You see, he got lost after missing the exit and had to do a whole mess of U-Turns, quick lane changes, sharp highway off-ramps and 90 degree turns.
You see, he got lost after missing the exit and had to do a whole mess of U-Turns, quick lane changes, sharp highway off-ramps and 90 degree turns.
08-26-2010, 06:46 AM
#110
It's not so much about the Unibody structure as it it is how the loading of the upper mount is transfered.
A strut car has it focused on a single point and is a load bearing member of the front suspension. The strut angles inward transfering the load more laterally.
An upper A-Arm car has that loading point moved away from the tower and is more vertical. So the loading is more vertical and less lateral.
Its why a 3rd gen sees huge benefits from an STB and a 4th gen not so much.
And in that video, I saw a lot more vertical movement than lateral. That tells me it's bushing deflection and not so much structure.
A strut car has it focused on a single point and is a load bearing member of the front suspension. The strut angles inward transfering the load more laterally.
An upper A-Arm car has that loading point moved away from the tower and is more vertical. So the loading is more vertical and less lateral.
Its why a 3rd gen sees huge benefits from an STB and a 4th gen not so much.
And in that video, I saw a lot more vertical movement than lateral. That tells me it's bushing deflection and not so much structure.
08-26-2010, 01:10 PM
#111
Check out this article about the 5th Gen chassis, for comparison:
http://www.superchevy.com/features/c...ecs/index.html
http://www.superchevy.com/features/c...ecs/index.html
08-26-2010, 01:27 PM
#112
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I will say that my 3rd gen can twist the hood when it hooks hard (no SFC/STB yet). IMO I'd think that the 4th gen is more rigid, BUT they still flex, a lot. Going over big speed bumps you can see and hear the flex in the chassis, especially if you angle it so that all 4 wheels hit the bump separately.
After installing my STB the front still flexes but it is tied together, so it flexes in unison, probably at the rear of the front subframe under the cowl/firewall.
I'd definitely say the STB helps, but the SFC are much more noticeable, especially considering that you SIT over the area that flexes.
After installing my STB the front still flexes but it is tied together, so it flexes in unison, probably at the rear of the front subframe under the cowl/firewall.
I'd definitely say the STB helps, but the SFC are much more noticeable, especially considering that you SIT over the area that flexes.
08-26-2010, 02:21 PM
#114
Reminds me of a guy I hunt with...couple years back:
"Man, I heard this big 8-point behind me, but I never got a look at it!"
"So, you HEARD an 8-point, but never actually saw it?"
"Yeah!"
"How the flying f*ck do you HEAR the difference between a spike, and 8-point, and a doe?"
"Oh man, I've been hunting so long, I can tell!"
08-26-2010, 04:47 PM
#115
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09-10-2010, 05:13 PM
#117
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Reminds me of a guy I hunt with...couple years back:
"Man, I heard this big 8-point behind me, but I never got a look at it!"
"So, you HEARD an 8-point, but never actually saw it?"
"Yeah!"
"How the flying f*ck do you HEAR the difference between a spike, and 8-point, and a doe?"
"Oh man, I've been hunting so long, I can tell!"
Watch the hood/fender alignment going over the bumps, and yes you can hear the chassis twist. How much? Probably not that much, but enough to make SFC/STB worth it to enough people to keep the vendors in business...
But I suppose since some people think the stock suspension is sufficient for 500rwhp cars and hard launches that makes it so?
I've got a torque arm and pan hard bar that disagree, and that car ran under 400rwhp.
Anyhow, being otherwise stock suspension, the addition of SFC/STB made a marked difference. Now, had I started with other tubular suspension pieces/mods first I probably wouldn't have noticed a difference.
09-10-2010, 07:30 PM
#118
Watch the hood/fender alignment going over the bumps, and yes you can hear the chassis twist. How much? Probably not that much, but enough to make SFC/STB worth it to enough people to keep the vendors in business...
But I suppose since some people think the stock suspension is sufficient for 500rwhp cars and hard launches that makes it so?
I've got a torque arm and pan hard bar that disagree, and that car ran under 400rwhp.
Anyhow, being otherwise stock suspension, the addition of SFC/STB made a marked difference. Now, had I started with other tubular suspension pieces/mods first I probably wouldn't have noticed a difference.
But I suppose since some people think the stock suspension is sufficient for 500rwhp cars and hard launches that makes it so?
I've got a torque arm and pan hard bar that disagree, and that car ran under 400rwhp.
Anyhow, being otherwise stock suspension, the addition of SFC/STB made a marked difference. Now, had I started with other tubular suspension pieces/mods first I probably wouldn't have noticed a difference.
Fake turbo whistles are popular enough to keep those vendors in business, too. Don't confuse popularity with validity.
If you want to think your STB made a difference, go for it. I'd bet $50 I could yank it out, not tell you, and you wouldn't know it wasn't there the next time you drove your car.
09-10-2010, 09:29 PM
#119
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I certainly hope you aren't paying attention to your hood alignment while hitting turns as hard as you can. I also hope comparing turbo whistles to frame/suspension reinforcement was a joke. You can't stray much further from a apples to apples comparison.
Popularity and validity, so you have factual proof that STB does nothing to brace the front end, or suspension? Because you know, even if it didn't do a damn thing, it never hurts to brace the suspension and frame of a car.
But I mean hey, there has never been a car that twisted the chassis, broke a weld from hard cornering and stress, put dimples in the quarters, or a car that ended up with stress fractures in fiberglass. Couldn't possibly be.
I'd bet you $50 bucks I could yank out a 9", pop in the stock 10 and they wouldn't know till it blew.
But I'd also bet you $50 bucks you'd argue fake turbo whistles to reinforcement 'til you were blue in the face.
I'll take the extra insurance until some one comes up with scientific data that disputes the "validity" of a STB.
Popularity and validity, so you have factual proof that STB does nothing to brace the front end, or suspension? Because you know, even if it didn't do a damn thing, it never hurts to brace the suspension and frame of a car.
But I mean hey, there has never been a car that twisted the chassis, broke a weld from hard cornering and stress, put dimples in the quarters, or a car that ended up with stress fractures in fiberglass. Couldn't possibly be.
I'd bet you $50 bucks I could yank out a 9", pop in the stock 10 and they wouldn't know till it blew.
But I'd also bet you $50 bucks you'd argue fake turbo whistles to reinforcement 'til you were blue in the face.
I'll take the extra insurance until some one comes up with scientific data that disputes the "validity" of a STB.
09-10-2010, 10:21 PM
#120
I certainly hope you aren't paying attention to your hood alignment while hitting turns as hard as you can. I also hope comparing turbo whistles to frame/suspension reinforcement was a joke. You can't stray much further from a apples to apples comparison.
Popularity and validity, so you have factual proof that STB does nothing to brace the front end, or suspension? Because you know, even if it didn't do a damn thing, it never hurts to brace the suspension and frame of a car.
But I mean hey, there has never been a car that twisted the chassis, broke a weld from hard cornering and stress, put dimples in the quarters, or a car that ended up with stress fractures in fiberglass. Couldn't possibly be.
I'd bet you $50 bucks I could yank out a 9", pop in the stock 10 and they wouldn't know till it blew.
But I'd also bet you $50 bucks you'd argue fake turbo whistles to reinforcement 'til you were blue in the face.
I'll take the extra insurance until some one comes up with scientific data that disputes the "validity" of a STB.
Popularity and validity, so you have factual proof that STB does nothing to brace the front end, or suspension? Because you know, even if it didn't do a damn thing, it never hurts to brace the suspension and frame of a car.
But I mean hey, there has never been a car that twisted the chassis, broke a weld from hard cornering and stress, put dimples in the quarters, or a car that ended up with stress fractures in fiberglass. Couldn't possibly be.
I'd bet you $50 bucks I could yank out a 9", pop in the stock 10 and they wouldn't know till it blew.
But I'd also bet you $50 bucks you'd argue fake turbo whistles to reinforcement 'til you were blue in the face.
I'll take the extra insurance until some one comes up with scientific data that disputes the "validity" of a STB.
It's a perfectly valid comparison. You're claiming that market demand is sufficient to overwhelm lack of objective data on whether something works as a determining factor when deciding whether something is a valid product to use or not. Just because there's a demand for something doesn't mean it actually does anything, hence the analogy.
Do you have any objective data that a STB does brace the front of the car? We can welt tube braces all over these cars and claim it "never hurts to have extra reinforcement" without ever bothering to first find out if we need that extra reinforcement, using your argument, but we end up with a lot of extra weight doing nothing for the car, without ever actually knowing if it's doing anything at all.
If we're going to call bullshit on analogies, I'll do it with yours. An axle is an axle; they all work rather the same, mechanically, and while one might be stronger than the other, they fulfill the same function. A STB, however, is a non-replacement additional part that doesn't increase the mechanical strength or function of the car. A simpler way to put it - a 10-bolt is like a kidney, a vital organ you never notice until it goes bad, then you can't ignore it. A STB is like a beard - it's visual, and doesn't affect the function of anything, and since it doesn't do anything, you'll see it's not there, but functionally, nothing changes.