I'm sick of listening to it. Help me out-handle my Old Man's '08 (MX-5) Miata
10-03-2010, 04:59 PM
#21
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On a road course, there are three aspects ... acceleration, stopping and turning.
An F-car can only out perform an MX-5 in one of those areas.
And if you accelerate like a mad man, you still have to slow it down.
You can close the gap significantly by shedding weight (as stated earlier), get the car to stop better and get the car to turn.
In order to shed significant weight, you'll need to get rid of all the "fluff" ... radio, A/C, seats ...
Decent pads and larger rotors, like a C5 upgrade at a minimum ...
And to get it to turn, a decent alignment.
Those are all things you can do to make HUGE gains and not break the bank.
But ...
Any one can tell you what it takes for them to go fast and make a car handle for them. Handling is more about confidence and repeatability than it is about trick parts. That all boils down to you and your ability. So don;t get caught up in the "cookie-cutter" version of handling.
Making power has a tried and true formula and that can be duplicated very easily. Making a car "handle" is much more unique and driver specific.
If Michael Schumacher is driving the Miata and Joe Schmuck is behind the wheel of the F-Car, then no bank account will close the "handling" gap.
So, any fix for the car needs to include the guy driving.
An F-car can only out perform an MX-5 in one of those areas.
And if you accelerate like a mad man, you still have to slow it down.
You can close the gap significantly by shedding weight (as stated earlier), get the car to stop better and get the car to turn.
In order to shed significant weight, you'll need to get rid of all the "fluff" ... radio, A/C, seats ...
Decent pads and larger rotors, like a C5 upgrade at a minimum ...
And to get it to turn, a decent alignment.
Those are all things you can do to make HUGE gains and not break the bank.
But ...
Any one can tell you what it takes for them to go fast and make a car handle for them. Handling is more about confidence and repeatability than it is about trick parts. That all boils down to you and your ability. So don;t get caught up in the "cookie-cutter" version of handling.
Making power has a tried and true formula and that can be duplicated very easily. Making a car "handle" is much more unique and driver specific.
If Michael Schumacher is driving the Miata and Joe Schmuck is behind the wheel of the F-Car, then no bank account will close the "handling" gap.
So, any fix for the car needs to include the guy driving.
The funniest part about what you had to say about driving is that I am 30, my dad is 77 and drives more aggressively to get groceries than I ever do, so I am beaten there too! He would never actually mod his car, race it, and it is the stripper model with pretty floppy shocks (still fun as hell to take up a canyon). It would be nice to spend some money over time to get the confidence that the car can handle.
And if nothing else, that is an absolutely awesome signature quote. I love it!
10-04-2010, 10:41 AM
#22
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On a road course, there are three aspects ... acceleration, stopping and turning.
An F-car can only out perform an MX-5 in one of those areas.
And if you accelerate like a mad man, you still have to slow it down.
You can close the gap significantly by shedding weight (as stated earlier), get the car to stop better and get the car to turn.
In order to shed significant weight, you'll need to get rid of all the "fluff" ... radio, A/C, seats ...
Decent pads and larger rotors, like a C5 upgrade at a minimum ...
And to get it to turn, a decent alignment.
Those are all things you can do to make HUGE gains and not break the bank.
But ...
Any one can tell you what it takes for them to go fast and make a car handle for them. Handling is more about confidence and repeatability than it is about trick parts. That all boils down to you and your ability. So don;t get caught up in the "cookie-cutter" version of handling.
Making power has a tried and true formula and that can be duplicated very easily. Making a car "handle" is much more unique and driver specific.
If Michael Schumacher is driving the Miata and Joe Schmuck is behind the wheel of the F-Car, then no bank account will close the "handling" gap.
So, any fix for the car needs to include the guy driving.
An F-car can only out perform an MX-5 in one of those areas.
And if you accelerate like a mad man, you still have to slow it down.
You can close the gap significantly by shedding weight (as stated earlier), get the car to stop better and get the car to turn.
In order to shed significant weight, you'll need to get rid of all the "fluff" ... radio, A/C, seats ...
Decent pads and larger rotors, like a C5 upgrade at a minimum ...
And to get it to turn, a decent alignment.
Those are all things you can do to make HUGE gains and not break the bank.
But ...
Any one can tell you what it takes for them to go fast and make a car handle for them. Handling is more about confidence and repeatability than it is about trick parts. That all boils down to you and your ability. So don;t get caught up in the "cookie-cutter" version of handling.
Making power has a tried and true formula and that can be duplicated very easily. Making a car "handle" is much more unique and driver specific.
If Michael Schumacher is driving the Miata and Joe Schmuck is behind the wheel of the F-Car, then no bank account will close the "handling" gap.
So, any fix for the car needs to include the guy driving.
To summarize the Miata's performance:
1/4 mile: 15.4 @89mph
Slalom: 64mph
Braking (60-0): 117 ft.
I'm surprised to see the braking and slalom #s seem about on par to a stock LS1f-body. What am I missing here?? This road test data must not paint the whole picture of handling.
Maybe yourself or Ironhead could chime in since it sounds like you have experience with both. To summarize my question: if the handling capability is so high on the Miata, why isn't is showing up in the instrumented tests?
10-04-2010, 10:50 AM
#23
Those are good magazine and internet comp numbers. Kind of like quarter mile times for drag racers. It's a way to do a like for like comparison.
Transitioning from L to R at steady speed and straightline braking is a LOT different than trail braking into a sweeper at 100mph.
Transitioning from L to R at steady speed and straightline braking is a LOT different than trail braking into a sweeper at 100mph.
10-04-2010, 10:53 AM
#24
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Maybe it is more based on feel. I looked those numbers up this weekend also and was confused. I will say that it feels so good driving, it almost is like a really good simulation. It feels so sure footed that it just makes you ooze confidence about the car. Stock testing numbers on the LS1 FBodies were 120 ft. from 60.
I did read an article describing how they got the best slalom numbers. This might give people the best insight into the little monster. The writer said that they were absolutely amazed at its ability to enter the slalom at a high speed with their best times coming entering at 70+ and riding out the momentum as the car doesn't have the power to push the mph up through the cones. I don't see a stock FBody hitting the cones at over 70 and staying in them with any success.
I hope that makes sense.
I did read an article describing how they got the best slalom numbers. This might give people the best insight into the little monster. The writer said that they were absolutely amazed at its ability to enter the slalom at a high speed with their best times coming entering at 70+ and riding out the momentum as the car doesn't have the power to push the mph up through the cones. I don't see a stock FBody hitting the cones at over 70 and staying in them with any success.
I hope that makes sense.
10-04-2010, 10:57 AM
#25
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Those are good magazine and internet comp numbers. Kind of like quarter mile times for drag racers. It's a way to do a like for like comparison.
Transitioning from L to R at steady speed and straightline braking is a LOT different than trail braking into a sweeper at 100mph.
Transitioning from L to R at steady speed and straightline braking is a LOT different than trail braking into a sweeper at 100mph.
10-04-2010, 11:26 AM
#26
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Those are good magazine and internet comp numbers. Kind of like quarter mile times for drag racers. It's a way to do a like for like comparison.
Transitioning from L to R at steady speed and straightline braking is a LOT different than trail braking into a sweeper at 100mph.
Transitioning from L to R at steady speed and straightline braking is a LOT different than trail braking into a sweeper at 100mph.
Maybe it is more based on feel. I looked those numbers up this weekend also and was confused. I will say that it feels so good driving, it almost is like a really good simulation. It feels so sure footed that it just makes you ooze confidence about the car. Stock testing numbers on the LS1 FBodies were 120 ft. from 60.
I did read an article describing how they got the best slalom numbers. This might give people the best insight into the little monster. The writer said that they were absolutely amazed at its ability to enter the slalom at a high speed with their best times coming entering at 70+ and riding out the momentum as the car doesn't have the power to push the mph up through the cones. I don't see a stock FBody hitting the cones at over 70 and staying in them with any success.
I hope that makes sense.
I did read an article describing how they got the best slalom numbers. This might give people the best insight into the little monster. The writer said that they were absolutely amazed at its ability to enter the slalom at a high speed with their best times coming entering at 70+ and riding out the momentum as the car doesn't have the power to push the mph up through the cones. I don't see a stock FBody hitting the cones at over 70 and staying in them with any success.
I hope that makes sense.
FWIW, magazine times for stock 4th gen f-bodies range from 65-68 (68.8 in the '94 bang for the buck MT competition), however, I understand track prep and temp can play a large role in these numbers and the MX-5 and F-body weren't tested on the same day, same track, etc.
I upgraded to the SS' 32mm front swaybar and Koni SA shocks and found them to make a huge improvement in handling (just based on feel/confidence, not track #s per say).
10-04-2010, 08:11 PM
#27
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I talked to Sam. This guy is AWESOME! I WILL be purchasing what he suggested. Thank you everyone for the suggestions, but most of all, thank you for steering me toward Strano!!!
10-05-2010, 01:43 PM
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Handling is a subjective thing. Like what looks good. I have driven a couple of Miatas and I found them to be twitchy, nervous yet very much connected. I have to say that after the Koni/Strano combo my car feels more comfortable to me. A Miata and a F-body are two totally different beasts though. I would say there is a lot of room for improvement in the handling of a F-body but your views on what good handling is may no be the same as your average Miata owner.
Sam if extremely helpful. Communication is a important part of his business.
Sam if extremely helpful. Communication is a important part of his business.
