LCA relocation brackets or no brackets?
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01-13-2011, 03:34 PM
#10
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We have sold bolt-on style relocation brackets for over 10 years and not had an issue with them being retained using bolts.
I don't even know if it's possible as the locating bracket bolts on behind the lower shock mount. Haven't heard of peoples shocks falling off....
The bolt-on relocation brackets work on both the factory rear ends and the Strange units.
Moser is the only one I am aware of that requires a weld-on relocation bracket.
I don't even know if it's possible as the locating bracket bolts on behind the lower shock mount. Haven't heard of peoples shocks falling off....The bolt-on relocation brackets work on both the factory rear ends and the Strange units.
Moser is the only one I am aware of that requires a weld-on relocation bracket.
01-13-2011, 04:46 PM
#11
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I spoke with UMI about a proper suspension setup for my car, and they said the brackets are not necessary. My car is lowered with an Eibach pro kit, adj panhard, adj torque arm, non adj LCA's, weld in SFC's.
01-13-2011, 06:12 PM
#14
One of the problems with brackets is if you have the rear side of your LCA's too much further down than the front's it can actually increase oversteer (something our cars don't have a shortage of IMO). The key is finding a balance between the two. As iWon mentioned, do install your LCA's and see if you have wheel hop. If you don't, the brackets aren't really necessary. If you do, put them on and see what you get. Being you already bought some, if they're a bolt-on design, it will be really easy to see if you need them or not.
01-13-2011, 10:34 PM
#16
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One of the problems with brackets is if you have the rear side of your LCA's too much further down than the front's it can actually increase oversteer (something our cars don't have a shortage of IMO). The key is finding a balance between the two. As iWon mentioned, do install your LCA's and see if you have wheel hop. If you don't, the brackets aren't really necessary. If you do, put them on and see what you get. Being you already bought some, if they're a bolt-on design, it will be really easy to see if you need them or not.
Lowered, tube K, arms, 12 bolt- m6, watts link etc.
No wheel hop 4 me so bracket-less.
Got the handle about the best as possible dont want to mess a good thing up.
01-14-2011, 12:31 AM
#17
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It's not a great design, its about the only design that was simple and logical to market to the public. Don't think that high HP cars are running bolt in brackets, or brackets at all for that matter. That shock mount is designed to hold the up and down tension of the shock itself as the rear end moves. When you accelerate, the rear end tries to move forward. The ONLY thing that pushes the car forward is the lower control arms. Now, if you mount them to an extender type bracket thats bolted in, what keeps the backet from spinning backwards? The bolt through the top? Nope, the extra extender that reached for the shock bracket. So now we are subjecting this bracket to forward/rearward motion as well as the normal up/down motion. That shock bracket is the only thing keeping those bolt on relo brackets from spinning rearward on accel. Now, ARE we actually overpowering that little shock bracket? Who the hell knows, if they aint snapping off I guess not.
01-14-2011, 08:32 AM
#18
We have sold bolt-on style relocation brackets for over 10 years and not had an issue with them being retained using bolts. I don't even know if it's possible as the locating bracket bolts on behind the lower shock mount. Haven't heard of peoples shocks falling off....
The bolt-on relocation brackets work on both the factory rear ends and the Strange units.
Moser is the only one I am aware of that requires a weld-on relocation bracket.
I don't even know if it's possible as the locating bracket bolts on behind the lower shock mount. Haven't heard of peoples shocks falling off....The bolt-on relocation brackets work on both the factory rear ends and the Strange units.
Moser is the only one I am aware of that requires a weld-on relocation bracket.
01-14-2011, 09:02 AM
#19
So much bad information in this thread I don't even know where to start. Wheelhop is not the only reason to use relocation brackets. It's all about anti-squat and weight transfer. Wheelhop is only one symptom of a bad instant center. Lowering the car upsets the anti-squat characteristics and the only way to fix that is with relocation brackets. Another thing people don't realize is that this is not just a problem for drag racers. Too little anti-squat produces understeer in corners. Relocation brackets moves your instant center rearward, increasing anti-squat.
As 99FormulaM6r pointed out too much anti-squat produces oversteer. This is absolutely correct and is exactly the reason why you have multiple holes to choose from. Most autocross and road race cars will probably never use the lowest hole but almost all lowered cars will benefit from the middle hole. Drag cars that have enough tire under them, proper weight distribution, and enough power to run a high anti-squat will almost always use the lowest hole. In fact most of the fastest cars being built now have custom fabbed rearends and are using brackets similar to a 4 link with multiple control arm holes for fine tuning anti-squat characteristics.
As for bolt-in brackets loosening or being a poor design, let the numbers speak for themselves. In the 13 years we have been in business, we have shipped 1000's of bolt-in relocation brackets and I have yet to hear of one moving because the bolts wouldn't hold them. The design itself prevents it, not the tightness of the bolts. I've seen bolt-in brackets bend when they were overpowered which is why we really only recommend them for stock to moderate power levels and have weld-in brackets for higher powered cars. That being said I know of plenty of customers running 10's with bolt-ins. Do we recommend it? No, but it happens. The nice thing about the bolt-ins is that you can install them in your driveway and get immediate results. If you switch from a stock rear to a Strange, you don't have to buy more brackets, just un-bolt them and transfer them over. If you have say a 300-450 rwhp car you will be fine with bolt-ins. As your power levels grow, there is no need to buy different brackets, just weld on the bolt-ins....
As 99FormulaM6r pointed out too much anti-squat produces oversteer. This is absolutely correct and is exactly the reason why you have multiple holes to choose from. Most autocross and road race cars will probably never use the lowest hole but almost all lowered cars will benefit from the middle hole. Drag cars that have enough tire under them, proper weight distribution, and enough power to run a high anti-squat will almost always use the lowest hole. In fact most of the fastest cars being built now have custom fabbed rearends and are using brackets similar to a 4 link with multiple control arm holes for fine tuning anti-squat characteristics.
As for bolt-in brackets loosening or being a poor design, let the numbers speak for themselves. In the 13 years we have been in business, we have shipped 1000's of bolt-in relocation brackets and I have yet to hear of one moving because the bolts wouldn't hold them. The design itself prevents it, not the tightness of the bolts. I've seen bolt-in brackets bend when they were overpowered which is why we really only recommend them for stock to moderate power levels and have weld-in brackets for higher powered cars. That being said I know of plenty of customers running 10's with bolt-ins. Do we recommend it? No, but it happens. The nice thing about the bolt-ins is that you can install them in your driveway and get immediate results. If you switch from a stock rear to a Strange, you don't have to buy more brackets, just un-bolt them and transfer them over. If you have say a 300-450 rwhp car you will be fine with bolt-ins. As your power levels grow, there is no need to buy different brackets, just weld on the bolt-ins....
01-24-2011, 08:45 AM
#20
So much bad information in this thread I don't even know where to start. Wheelhop is not the only reason to use relocation brackets. It's all about anti-squat and weight transfer. Wheelhop is only one symptom of a bad instant center. Lowering the car upsets the anti-squat characteristics and the only way to fix that is with relocation brackets. Another thing people don't realize is that this is not just a problem for drag racers. Too little anti-squat produces understeer in corners. Relocation brackets moves your instant center rearward, increasing anti-squat.
As 99FormulaM6r pointed out too much anti-squat produces oversteer. This is absolutely correct and is exactly the reason why you have multiple holes to choose from. Most autocross and road race cars will probably never use the lowest hole but almost all lowered cars will benefit from the middle hole. Drag cars that have enough tire under them, proper weight distribution, and enough power to run a high anti-squat will almost always use the lowest hole. In fact most of the fastest cars being built now have custom fabbed rearends and are using brackets similar to a 4 link with multiple control arm holes for fine tuning anti-squat characteristics.
As for bolt-in brackets loosening or being a poor design, let the numbers speak for themselves. In the 13 years we have been in business, we have shipped 1000's of bolt-in relocation brackets and I have yet to hear of one moving because the bolts wouldn't hold them. The design itself prevents it, not the tightness of the bolts. I've seen bolt-in brackets bend when they were overpowered which is why we really only recommend them for stock to moderate power levels and have weld-in brackets for higher powered cars. That being said I know of plenty of customers running 10's with bolt-ins. Do we recommend it? No, but it happens. The nice thing about the bolt-ins is that you can install them in your driveway and get immediate results. If you switch from a stock rear to a Strange, you don't have to buy more brackets, just un-bolt them and transfer them over. If you have say a 300-450 rwhp car you will be fine with bolt-ins. As your power levels grow, there is no need to buy different brackets, just weld on the bolt-ins....
As 99FormulaM6r pointed out too much anti-squat produces oversteer. This is absolutely correct and is exactly the reason why you have multiple holes to choose from. Most autocross and road race cars will probably never use the lowest hole but almost all lowered cars will benefit from the middle hole. Drag cars that have enough tire under them, proper weight distribution, and enough power to run a high anti-squat will almost always use the lowest hole. In fact most of the fastest cars being built now have custom fabbed rearends and are using brackets similar to a 4 link with multiple control arm holes for fine tuning anti-squat characteristics.
As for bolt-in brackets loosening or being a poor design, let the numbers speak for themselves. In the 13 years we have been in business, we have shipped 1000's of bolt-in relocation brackets and I have yet to hear of one moving because the bolts wouldn't hold them. The design itself prevents it, not the tightness of the bolts. I've seen bolt-in brackets bend when they were overpowered which is why we really only recommend them for stock to moderate power levels and have weld-in brackets for higher powered cars. That being said I know of plenty of customers running 10's with bolt-ins. Do we recommend it? No, but it happens. The nice thing about the bolt-ins is that you can install them in your driveway and get immediate results. If you switch from a stock rear to a Strange, you don't have to buy more brackets, just un-bolt them and transfer them over. If you have say a 300-450 rwhp car you will be fine with bolt-ins. As your power levels grow, there is no need to buy different brackets, just weld on the bolt-ins....
I already had a set of BMR springs, and recently purchased the bolt-in relocation brackets, control arms, adjustable torque arm, and torque arm relocation crossmember.
I have the springs installed, and the bolt-in control arm relocation brackets with the control arms in the center hole. Last night I was installing the torque arm and crossmember. With my car being lowered, which holes would you recommend to start out with the torque arm mount adjusted to? I know you can't dial-in my suspension for me, I'm just looking for a good starting point. I understand the setting and effect of the pinion angle with the adjustable torque arm, but I am fuzzy on instant center since it is affected by both the control arm angle and the torque arm mount position.
I am just bolt-ons and don't plan on really big power. Should I stay with the center hole on the relocation brackets? And which holes should I use on the torque arm relocation mount?
