Missing bolts, need help to replace!
Missing bolts, need help to replace! So the last couple times I took the car out there was a rubbing noise coming from the driver side rear of the vehicle that I hadn't been able to identify where it was coming from. Today I found out, but I haven't had any luck yet finding out exactly what these nuts and bolts are called, let alone how to get to them. I will attach pictures showing where the bolts & nuts that are missing are located.
The really scary thing is that the last bolt & nut that was on the driver side was BARELY on, and the nut rotated freely with only finger strength.
How much of a pain in the *** is it going to be to replace these and are there any specialty tools that I'm going to need to rent? From their location I'm assuming I'm going to have to remove the drum brake assembly to get to them, but looking through my Haynes manual I don't see anything that identifies these nuts and bolts specifically yet.
Thanks for your help.
http://smelley.info/jcsmelley/driver-side.jpg
http://smelley.info/jcsmelley/passenger-side.jpg
I hosted these elsewhere because the pics are so big, I didn't want to distort the thread view. Both pics are taken from the in-board side of the rotor and from a top-down position, I tried to angle the driver side pic a little more to show the bolt holes.
The really scary thing is that the last bolt & nut that was on the driver side was BARELY on, and the nut rotated freely with only finger strength.
How much of a pain in the *** is it going to be to replace these and are there any specialty tools that I'm going to need to rent? From their location I'm assuming I'm going to have to remove the drum brake assembly to get to them, but looking through my Haynes manual I don't see anything that identifies these nuts and bolts specifically yet.
Thanks for your help.
http://smelley.info/jcsmelley/driver-side.jpg
http://smelley.info/jcsmelley/passenger-side.jpg
I hosted these elsewhere because the pics are so big, I didn't want to distort the thread view. Both pics are taken from the in-board side of the rotor and from a top-down position, I tried to angle the driver side pic a little more to show the bolt holes.
Last edited by Shenlon; Jun 25, 2011 at 04:41 PM.
you can probably find something that will work at a quality hardware store, maybe someone on here can get a measurement for you or just take one of the ones that's left with you and get a few of whatever size that is. just make sure it's a good grade/quality bolt.
I don't know how they would have come loose though, is that the original rear? ever been opened up? or had the backing plates swapped? I don't know if you can even pull those bolts out with the axles in place, off the top of my head I would think you couldn't, but they might be short enough to wiggle out. otherwise you may have to pull the rear end cover, 8mm bolt retaining, pull out the block thingy, remove the C-clip, pull the axle out, then put the new bolts in.
I don't know how they would have come loose though, is that the original rear? ever been opened up? or had the backing plates swapped? I don't know if you can even pull those bolts out with the axles in place, off the top of my head I would think you couldn't, but they might be short enough to wiggle out. otherwise you may have to pull the rear end cover, 8mm bolt retaining, pull out the block thingy, remove the C-clip, pull the axle out, then put the new bolts in.
Ok, so I finally got the caliper and bracket off and pulled the rotor off. The three bolts were all in the bottom of the rotor, really mangled. The problem now is that the piece of stamped metal that serves as the guide for the parking brake mechanism is all tore up as well as the parking brake shoes.
I'll get pictures up later, I was really hoping to not have to replace parts back there other than the nuts and bolts, but looks like I'm going to have to do the parking brake shoes and the piece of stamped metal at a minimum. Problem is I can't figure out how the hell to get the damn thing off.
There wasn't any wobbling, but there was a pulsing and in the last mile or so that I drove it there was a resistance to motion that led me to suspect maybe the parking brake was staying engaged. If only it was that easy.
I'll get pictures up later, I was really hoping to not have to replace parts back there other than the nuts and bolts, but looks like I'm going to have to do the parking brake shoes and the piece of stamped metal at a minimum. Problem is I can't figure out how the hell to get the damn thing off.
There wasn't any wobbling, but there was a pulsing and in the last mile or so that I drove it there was a resistance to motion that led me to suspect maybe the parking brake was staying engaged. If only it was that easy.
you can probably find something that will work at a quality hardware store, maybe someone on here can get a measurement for you or just take one of the ones that's left with you and get a few of whatever size that is. just make sure it's a good grade/quality bolt.
I don't know how they would have come loose though, is that the original rear? ever been opened up? or had the backing plates swapped? I don't know if you can even pull those bolts out with the axles in place, off the top of my head I would think you couldn't, but they might be short enough to wiggle out. otherwise you may have to pull the rear end cover, 8mm bolt retaining, pull out the block thingy, remove the C-clip, pull the axle out, then put the new bolts in.
I don't know how they would have come loose though, is that the original rear? ever been opened up? or had the backing plates swapped? I don't know if you can even pull those bolts out with the axles in place, off the top of my head I would think you couldn't, but they might be short enough to wiggle out. otherwise you may have to pull the rear end cover, 8mm bolt retaining, pull out the block thingy, remove the C-clip, pull the axle out, then put the new bolts in.
Thanks for all the help guys.
Thanks for the feedback, I went up to a few local auto parts stores to try to find a backing plate and the drum parking brake shoes, but none of them carry the backing plate only the shoes. Looks like I'll have to try to find a local salvage yard.
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Right ^^^^ I'd suggest getting the hardware from a dealer. These bolts are high strength and very specialized. You can NOT get safe replacements from a hardware store!
Holy cow Batman! You really did a fortunate bit of detective work. You were just one bolt from loosing your wheel. (This would have probably ruined your day...) I suggest using enhanced interrogation techniques on the former owner to find out what all they did to the car.
To your earlier questions:
- Yes, you need a special tool. A torque wrench will be needed to properly tighten the new hardware. Given that the last bit of hardware was taking on the burden for the entire wheel, I'd replace all four bolts/nuts. Its important to get the hardware tight enough but not over-tightened. If you do this properly with a torque wrench, they will not come off again. (I'd bet this is where things went awry in the past.)
- Can you post a pic of the parking brake? The parts for the brake come in one of two kits. Shoe only or all brake parts. I don't believe the full kit does not come with a backing plate. That will have to be had from a salvage yard.
Holy cow Batman! You really did a fortunate bit of detective work. You were just one bolt from loosing your wheel. (This would have probably ruined your day...) I suggest using enhanced interrogation techniques on the former owner to find out what all they did to the car.
To your earlier questions:
- Yes, you need a special tool. A torque wrench will be needed to properly tighten the new hardware. Given that the last bit of hardware was taking on the burden for the entire wheel, I'd replace all four bolts/nuts. Its important to get the hardware tight enough but not over-tightened. If you do this properly with a torque wrench, they will not come off again. (I'd bet this is where things went awry in the past.)
- Can you post a pic of the parking brake? The parts for the brake come in one of two kits. Shoe only or all brake parts. I don't believe the full kit does not come with a backing plate. That will have to be had from a salvage yard.
Never will I say that a torque wrench is not a good tool to use to properly tighten fastners.
But ...
It's not an "essential" tool. Too many rely too heavily on tightening fastners.
Think about what you are tightening, the loading that is applied, the material being tightened, etc. Feel the wrench and get an idea of what 40lbs feels like with a 3/8" drive ratchet, 20lbs with a 1/4" drive, 80lbs with a 1/2 drive ... you get the idea.
Unless you ALWAYS properly store a TQ wrench and have it calibrated regulary, it's really just an approximation any way.
But ...
It's not an "essential" tool. Too many rely too heavily on tightening fastners.
Think about what you are tightening, the loading that is applied, the material being tightened, etc. Feel the wrench and get an idea of what 40lbs feels like with a 3/8" drive ratchet, 20lbs with a 1/4" drive, 80lbs with a 1/2 drive ... you get the idea.
Unless you ALWAYS properly store a TQ wrench and have it calibrated regulary, it's really just an approximation any way.
I typically buy grade 8 whenever I replace hardware just to be on the cautious side. I picked up some bolts today and hope to get the whole thing back together. I had hopes of trying to get the backing plate and parking brake shoe all back on, but the shoe is toast and the mounting hardware for the shoe is pretty nasty too.
Just so I can have the car running for now, I'm going to just remove the parking brake shoes on both sides and drive the car without the parking brake. I KNOW THIS IS NOT IDEAL AND IS NOT A LONG TERM SOLUTION. This is just so I can drive the car in the mean time while I order the parts from a dealer or find them in a salvage yard.
I did find an LS1 rear brake upgrade writeup that had the part numbers for the whole backing plate with parking brake shoes, so I'm hoping to be able to order the parts tomorrow and then pull the axles sometime in a week or two when they come in. If anyone can double check the parts numbers for me I would greatly appreciate it:
10434796 - Rear LH backing plate with drum parking brake shoes
10434797 - Rear RH backing plate with drum parking brake shoes
Here's a link to the writeup: http://www.poltergeist.us/page/Elky/.../ls1brakes.htm
Thanks again to everyone here for helping me get this whole ordeal sorted out. I did talk to the original owner and he said he hadn't touched those bolts since he had re-built the rear end 5 1/2 years ago and had a picture from a panhard rod install 1 year ago that very clearly show the bolts installed. I'm not sure what happened, but I know that I am going to keep a keen ear out for any abnormal noises for a while until I'm sure that these things aren't going anywhere.
Just so I can have the car running for now, I'm going to just remove the parking brake shoes on both sides and drive the car without the parking brake. I KNOW THIS IS NOT IDEAL AND IS NOT A LONG TERM SOLUTION. This is just so I can drive the car in the mean time while I order the parts from a dealer or find them in a salvage yard.
I did find an LS1 rear brake upgrade writeup that had the part numbers for the whole backing plate with parking brake shoes, so I'm hoping to be able to order the parts tomorrow and then pull the axles sometime in a week or two when they come in. If anyone can double check the parts numbers for me I would greatly appreciate it:
10434796 - Rear LH backing plate with drum parking brake shoes
10434797 - Rear RH backing plate with drum parking brake shoes
Here's a link to the writeup: http://www.poltergeist.us/page/Elky/.../ls1brakes.htm
Thanks again to everyone here for helping me get this whole ordeal sorted out. I did talk to the original owner and he said he hadn't touched those bolts since he had re-built the rear end 5 1/2 years ago and had a picture from a panhard rod install 1 year ago that very clearly show the bolts installed. I'm not sure what happened, but I know that I am going to keep a keen ear out for any abnormal noises for a while until I'm sure that these things aren't going anywhere.
The part numbers above look to be for the full brake kit. If your plate is good, you should be able to get away with the smaller service kits. Check the last attachment to this thread for the full sheet:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...ake-parts.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspensio...ake-parts.html
Thanks wssix99. Unfortunately, the bolts chewed up the plate pretty bad, so I'm going to just replace it all instead of trying to make stuff work that may end up breaking later.
