ElkySS

iTrader: (6)

anyone got any pics of a car that was jacked up to install them? im curious just how much it actually affects it.

02WS6SSZ71

iTrader: (20)

Just for fun, I'll throw this out there for discussion:

When installing SFCs on an older car, such as, say a 1st or 2nd gen f-body, companies usually recommend lifting the car by the subframe, front and rear, and letting the suspension hang. The idea is to let the car flex back to it original position, taking up any sag that may be present in the center of the car. Thoughts on installing SFCs this way on an older, higher mileage 4th gen?

camaro1185

iTrader: (2)

I did a TON of research before I put mine in, because with the weld in type, you only get 1 shot. The way I did it was, the front tires were on ramps, and the rear axle was supported with jackstands. You want to try and get the car level as possible. As I said, now there is virtually NO body flex at all. My buddy took a ride in my car after the SFC and said if he didn't know better, he would never have guessed it was a 24year old car it rode so nice.

1ltcap

in that instance, i would suggest a body shop. it doesn't really cost much for them to put it on a fram jig, and they will be able to tell you beyond a doubt if your car's twisted/sagging etc.

an example......customer of mine got a 93 lx notch a couple years ago. supposedly never in an accident, or beat on. low miles. he's an air force kid, and really cool(kid!? he's been to iraq 2x).
anyway, what he couldn't do(such as most of the suspension, frame connectors, etc.), he brought to me.
when it came time to put the connectors in, i put her up on my alignment rack, and tried installing them. they wouldn't line up. they were off by nearly a half inch on each side. this to me also explained why i couldn't get his caster to where i wanted it(i had told him at that point that i thought the car was twisted.)
i called him, and he took it to a bodyshop,. they said it wasn't twisted. i put it back up, and showed him how far off they were.......he took it to a different bodyshop(i think the one that mcguire uses for their police cars), and they reaffirmed that the car was twisted. th

they straightened it for him, and while they had it on the jig, they installed the connectors for him.

you only get one chance at doing these right......it's cheaper to spend a little in the beginning, rather than regret not having done so when you find out you missed.

also......please don't take any of what i'm saying as being wise assed. i reserve that for the racers lounge.

Austinma62

for everyone that thinks weld in are stronger vs the bolt in whats your reasoning? other suspension parts bolt in so how would subframe connectors be any different?

Austinma62

the only downside to bolt in is the could there is a chance of them coming off, but i mean if you torque them down and use locktite I wouldnt see that as a problem

1ltcap

frame connectors aren't suspension parts. suspension moves(obviously) as part of its job.
frame connectors are designed to not move, and to tie the front and rear frames together, thus stiffening up the entire car.
bolt in connectors, generally use 2 or 3 throughbolts at each end. hercules himself couldn't tighten those bolts tight enough to prevent some small amount of slippage between the connectors and the frame sections.

also, i've seen properly installed bolt in connectors. virtually every one has had obvious signs of having moved.

camaro1185

iTrader: (2)

Not to mention the bolt holes in the frame will elongate over time especially if you drive the car hard.

LS14EVR

iTrader: (3)

Mine are bolt in as I said, and yes over time I will agree with what has been said, but if you are unsure about the direction you are taking with the car or the possiblity of selling it, then it's a great option. I'll say this, knowing what I know about my car now, if and when the time permits itself, they will probably just get welded in. But hey, now I already have some weld holes for more surface area.

ssvert99

iTrader: (26)

^^^^^ THIS!

Also keep in mind people that most of the popular "SFCs" on this site are not actually even connecting the subframe(s) of the f-body chassis. Any connector that bolts(or even welds) to the LCA bracket on the 82-02 f-body is not doing much for the car and is just adding weight.

This is one of the reasons why MWC advertises "True Subframe Connector" with their products.

1ltcap

good call. i forgot about that.

Austinma62

ok, well all of that makes since. how much would a shop charge roughly to have them welded in?

1ltcap

i generally charge about an hours labor. they're not that hard. i'm sure that there's gotta be someone on these boards that's near you that could do it for ya.

2cat95ta

If you have or plan on getting a tunnel mounted TA I would get 3 point for the extra support in the tunnel area, otherwise 2 point are a good buy. 3 point do weigh more, but I wouldn't guess by much

NightmareMoose

I may have someone in the Platte City area that can do it. I'll ask around.

1ltcap

possibly ssvert knows of someone in your area that he can recommend? it looks like this is his business, so he would also be the one to answer your questions on 2 or 3 point too.

Austinma62

can you explain the difference in torque arms? I dont know a whole lot about suspension but down the road I do plan on getting an aftermarket rear end and some wider tires.

babbage1109

iTrader: (11)

A Shorty tq arm is better for drag strip and the normal sized one is good for autox and normal driving

Austinma62

Is anyone running dual 3 inch exhaust with an x pipe and using the 3 point subframe connectors? I have heard there could be issues with the two fitting together.

Fosnot

iTrader: (15)

Really depends on how you run the dual exhaust. If you see Kooks dual exhaust they run both pipes right next to each other in place of the single over back in the stock location.

As long as you run the pipes down the center and not some other route, the 3 point shouldn't have any issues. Might have to remove that tunnel brace (which is weak and doesn't do much anyway).