subframe connectors
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,798
Likes: 16
From: St.Charles MO
Lets try a simple test if you're so inclined. Jack both side of the front of the car up and locate two 6 ton jackstands under the front subframe (rear tires still on the ground) near the tow hook section. Remove one front tire. Put a floor jack under that lower balljoint (suspension is fully extended) and tell me how many pumps it takes for that coil spring to START to compress. It should start compressing on the very first stroke of upward pressure by you're rationale. Do that, and tell us what you find out.
The coil would compress if it were overly soft, or you had a huge amount of leverage on it, but otherwise the car just lifts (note: not flexes) on that side.
-You can flip the argument pretty easy here, do the same to the rear where the springs are significantly softer, and its a 1:1 motion rate of spring compressing to wheel travel. You'll see the rear axle compressing quite a bit and the body not moving. Does this mean the rear chassis of the car is stiffer? Nope, the spring is just softer and will compress under less weight.
But im not sure where you are going with this anyway, as it has nothing to do with how the car will behave to a bump or weight transfer in the real world. Bumps are not some gradual lifting of the suspension, they are quick, high rate hits. If things were flexing as bad as you thought, then glass/fiberglass and plastic would be breaking left and right, bolts wouldn't fit/would be bending, and getting an alignment would be useless as the car would just be flexing anyway.
You might be surprised to find out what you learn when you actually get your hands dirty instead of believing forum BS.
On The Tree
iTrader: (11)
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 174
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From: Edgewater FL. but, Jersey for life!
these cars are fairly sturdy, i'll give you that but, they can still benefit from subs. at a stock level they might not be necessary but when you start adding power they are a safe addition.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Wrong sir. The coil will not compress. The cowl will do a belly dance for about 4 -6 pumps before the spring starts to compress. Try exactly what I said before assume you know the functionality of a car's suspension. What you say sounds good on paper but just isn't realistic to these cars. You'd be surprised what you learn when you poke around under a car for as long as I have. Sometimes, it's things you don't want to learn. Honestly, I was like you and thought I knew it all and wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Seeing a cowl flex right under a windshield like that gives you a sick feeling in your stomach. And that was with subframe connectors.
On my car I have a set of Boxed Hotchkis Subframe Connectors on the car. Welded in by the way. I love them. I immediately noticed a difference in rigidity & MUCH less chassis flex. Also my car launched much straighter than she did previously before it had nothing on it. If I were to ever buy any car without Subframe connectors on them that would be one of the first things I would install.
For some reason it seems to me that convertibles wouldnt have chassis flex as much as T-Tops or hard top F-Bodies. Good question! I would like to know some more info on that also.
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Verdad Gallardo Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
FWIW I bought my 01SS in '03, it had 23K miles on it, and first thing I had put on were LGM G2 SFC's with v-braces to prevent the rear quarter panel dimples from appearing, and guess what I ended up getting anyway???
Rear quarter panel dimples.
I've never took my SS to a drag strip, nor to any autoX events, just daily driven with runs thru the southern Cali canyons every other month.
Personally I feel I wasted my $$$ but hey, it's not like I'm going to take them off of the car now.
Rear quarter panel dimples.
I've never took my SS to a drag strip, nor to any autoX events, just daily driven with runs thru the southern Cali canyons every other month.
Personally I feel I wasted my $$$ but hey, it's not like I'm going to take them off of the car now.
FWIW I bought my 01SS in '03, it had 23K miles on it, and first thing I had put on were LGM G2 SFC's with v-braces to prevent the rear quarter panel dimples from appearing, and guess what I ended up getting anyway???
Rear quarter panel dimples.
I've never took my SS to a drag strip, nor to any autoX events, just daily driven with runs thru the southern Cali canyons every other month.
Personally I feel I wasted my $$$ but hey, it's not like I'm going to take them off of the car now.
Rear quarter panel dimples.
I've never took my SS to a drag strip, nor to any autoX events, just daily driven with runs thru the southern Cali canyons every other month.
Personally I feel I wasted my $$$ but hey, it's not like I'm going to take them off of the car now.
and the car was in immaculate condition when I bought it, it still had the brand new car smell and it was perfect!
got the welded ones from LG Motorsports, had the v-braces bolted on, and it did make a huge difference but then again the suspension was totally factory, no SLP options so I had the SS 32mm (31mm?) front sway, deCrapper shocks, factory springs, everything else was factory.
AND, rear quarter panel dimples AFTER I had the SFC's welded on, it took a few years but bottomline they showed up.
GM Quality I guess.
got the welded ones from LG Motorsports, had the v-braces bolted on, and it did make a huge difference but then again the suspension was totally factory, no SLP options so I had the SS 32mm (31mm?) front sway, deCrapper shocks, factory springs, everything else was factory.
AND, rear quarter panel dimples AFTER I had the SFC's welded on, it took a few years but bottomline they showed up.
GM Quality I guess.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,798
Likes: 16
From: St.Charles MO
You must have the loosest 4th gen around... Has it been in an accident?
I have done this and my car did exactly what I described. The coil didn't compress but that side of the car picked up.
I'm dead serious, and I didn't just start working on these cars yesterday. Wanna talk about flex kind sir, think your car is made of super steel? Lets try a simple test if you're so inclined. Jack both side of the front of the car up and locate two 6 ton jackstands under the front subframe (rear tires still on the ground) near the tow hook section. Remove one front tire. Put a floor jack under that lower balljoint (suspension is fully extended) and tell me how many pumps it takes for that coil spring to START to compress. It should start compressing on the very first stroke of upward pressure by you're rationale. Do that, and tell us what you find out. You might be surprised to find out what you learn when you actually get your hands dirty instead of believing forum BS.
Launching!
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
From: Canada
I installed SFC (weld in type from Founders) and brace two weeks ago, I like the result. And if my wife can get in the passenger seat after and say, "Holy **** Paul, the car feels solid" without me even saying a word then the proof is there for me! Just saying, it's not just me that noticed the difference with them. Yes, I still have the factory absorbers in the rear, but it does have the Bilstein Suspension package on it if that makes any difference at all.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Wow, you're more hard headed then I thought. If you did what I said your car would have done the exact same thing. There isn't that much difference between these cars........Just go install a fresh set of MSD plug wires and a Magnaflow catback and run some 9s mmmk?