trying to figure out which sway bars to buy
12-30-2015, 12:45 PM
#21
12-30-2015, 12:49 PM
#22
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LMAO but lighter weight makes you faster no matter how you choose to use it. I suppose it makes you brake quicker too just never considered that because we have a 1/2 mile shutdown at our local track.
12-30-2015, 01:48 PM
#25
Thats what I assumed. I dont have the luxury to play with bars so I cant say if hollow bars work "better". A lot is driving preference (in AX/RR) and somewhat is haveing properly paired parts. I tend to like more oversteer.
12-30-2015, 02:28 PM
#26
All comes down the diameter/material/solid or hollow. Given same geometry/bends (which is the case since both bars need to fit the same vehicle) a 35mm hollow will have less rate than 35mm solid. HOW much more rate will the solid have over hollow I'm not 100% sure but I could figure it out. End decision is if you want to give up rate for weight.
EDIT: Found Sam's bar is 35mm hollow and 487lb/in. The ST 35mm solid front bar is 699 lb/in (found an email I sent to them asking about it). There is about a $30 price difference between the bars but like Sam mentioned, maybe 15lbs weight advantage going hollow. The additional rate of the ST bar can be simply "tuned" out/in by stiffening my rear bar OR shocks.
If you are concerned about weight, going with hollow bars is a simple and easy way to do it. Sam designed/paired his bars in hollow form to work well, and I like the way my solid bars are paired. "Tomato...Tomahto"
EDIT: Found Sam's bar is 35mm hollow and 487lb/in. The ST 35mm solid front bar is 699 lb/in (found an email I sent to them asking about it). There is about a $30 price difference between the bars but like Sam mentioned, maybe 15lbs weight advantage going hollow. The additional rate of the ST bar can be simply "tuned" out/in by stiffening my rear bar OR shocks.
If you are concerned about weight, going with hollow bars is a simple and easy way to do it. Sam designed/paired his bars in hollow form to work well, and I like the way my solid bars are paired. "Tomato...Tomahto"
First, shocks don't effect the bar rate. Shocks don't cover for changes in bar rate. Bars effect the amount of roll, and by the way they also want to unload the inside tire a bit more under hard cornering too.
Next, I used the ST bars for years. I'm well aware of what is up with those, and had many, many folks change from ST to mine and were all happy they did for the savings in heft. In fact I used to make solid 35's myself, until I kind of came to the conclusion it wasn't necessary because I can make hollow bars for not a million bucks. I can still sell an ST bar if someone wants, but there are other solid 35's out there like the UMI that we I can supply you no sweat (which I let them take over when I decided to not do solids myself anymore) that are more readily available.
Additionally. And many don't know this. GM bars are hollow in the front of this car to start with (and Corvettes and many other cars). Some rears are too, but not the stock rear on a 3rd or 4th gen. So adding a SOLID front bar is actually adding a lot of weight to the front of a nose heavy car to start with. Now, I get it... if it was $300 for A front bar bar that might be worth gaining some weight. But that's not the case. And the rear bar, that's just a net savings period. And because it's bolted to the axle, it's unsprung weight. And unsprung weight is a big deal (see how many cars have aluminum suspension components now?). Saving unsprung mass helps the car ride better and work better over bumps too, which is a thing with a solid axle car especially.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
12-30-2015, 02:31 PM
#27
Forgot one thing. My stuff is more finely paired, I tuned the wall thickness of each bar myself. The rear bar is thinner wall tubing by a bunch than the front because you can indeed have too much rear bar.
The 10,000 foot view of this is "meh they're all pretty much the same". That changes as you get closer. And honestly, for what folks will spend upgrading this part and that to CM to save a pound, two, or 10, you can't save this much weight anywhere else for less cost unless you want to just run around without a hood on the car or something that's "free".
The 10,000 foot view of this is "meh they're all pretty much the same". That changes as you get closer. And honestly, for what folks will spend upgrading this part and that to CM to save a pound, two, or 10, you can't save this much weight anywhere else for less cost unless you want to just run around without a hood on the car or something that's "free".
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
12-30-2015, 03:57 PM
#28
Okay so a few details.
First, shocks don't effect the bar rate. Shocks don't cover for changes in bar rate. Bars effect the amount of roll, and by the way they also want to unload the inside tire a bit more under hard cornering too.
Next, I used the ST bars for years. I'm well aware of what is up with those, and had many, many folks change from ST to mine and were all happy they did for the savings in heft. In fact I used to make solid 35's myself, until I kind of came to the conclusion it wasn't necessary because I can make hollow bars for not a million bucks. I can still sell an ST bar if someone wants, but there are other solid 35's out there like the UMI that we I can supply you no sweat (which I let them take over when I decided to not do solids myself anymore) that are more readily available.
Additionally. And many don't know this. GM bars are hollow in the front of this car to start with (and Corvettes and many other cars). Some rears are too, but not the stock rear on a 3rd or 4th gen. So adding a SOLID front bar is actually adding a lot of weight to the front of a nose heavy car to start with. Now, I get it... if it was $300 for A front bar bar that might be worth gaining some weight. But that's not the case. And the rear bar, that's just a net savings period. And because it's bolted to the axle, it's unsprung weight. And unsprung weight is a big deal (see how many cars have aluminum suspension components now?). Saving unsprung mass helps the car ride better and work better over bumps too, which is a thing with a solid axle car especially.
First, shocks don't effect the bar rate. Shocks don't cover for changes in bar rate. Bars effect the amount of roll, and by the way they also want to unload the inside tire a bit more under hard cornering too.
Next, I used the ST bars for years. I'm well aware of what is up with those, and had many, many folks change from ST to mine and were all happy they did for the savings in heft. In fact I used to make solid 35's myself, until I kind of came to the conclusion it wasn't necessary because I can make hollow bars for not a million bucks. I can still sell an ST bar if someone wants, but there are other solid 35's out there like the UMI that we I can supply you no sweat (which I let them take over when I decided to not do solids myself anymore) that are more readily available.
Additionally. And many don't know this. GM bars are hollow in the front of this car to start with (and Corvettes and many other cars). Some rears are too, but not the stock rear on a 3rd or 4th gen. So adding a SOLID front bar is actually adding a lot of weight to the front of a nose heavy car to start with. Now, I get it... if it was $300 for A front bar bar that might be worth gaining some weight. But that's not the case. And the rear bar, that's just a net savings period. And because it's bolted to the axle, it's unsprung weight. And unsprung weight is a big deal (see how many cars have aluminum suspension components now?). Saving unsprung mass helps the car ride better and work better over bumps too, which is a thing with a solid axle car especially.
With my setup I can have the car understeer or oversteer by adjusting my rear shocks...I have done it. I meant that I can get the car closer to how I like it to drive with a HUGE front 700b/in bar by playing with my rear shocks.Don't take that as downplaying your product as you need to sell parts as part of your job. Just laying out what I have compared to what you have offer. It's up to the consumer to decide whether they want less weight and almost 200b/in less front bar. But 90% of amateur corner carvers I doubt will feel the difference...me included unless you have the ability to do back to back controlled runs by swapping bars. People will buy one bar and use it and be very happy since it is such a huge improvement over stock.
With all the variables in suspension/tire/environment it must be difficult and very labor intensive to fine tune a bars wall thickness to the point of you actually being able to feel the change.