badazzt/a

iTrader: (1)

going to be a H/C/I with a 3K stall wondering what you guys were having good luck with in the 400-450 rwhp range thanks

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

What are you trying to do? Go fast in a straight line or around corners?

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

^^^ agree,for what purpose ?
what's the current suspension setup ?
why only a 3K stall ? That's leaving a lot 'on the table'.

Latch

iTrader: (8)

Stock unless you're looking to set the car up to handle. Then I'd get Strano's bars. You should be able to hook just fine without a drag bar at the 400-450 level.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

There is no one answer. Mine are the lightest you will get, and are meant for great handling.

"Drag bars" aren't good handling, at all. Rear is huge and front, well the fronts get taken off most of the time (and stock it's not large enough anyway and certainly not with a GIANT rear).

As a compromise we offer an adjustable rear bar that allows you to stiffen the rear up to help keep the car more straight under hard launch (has to be hard enough that the car will want to move right to start with), but then you can run a more appropriate rate on the street when pounding around.

All my bars are hollow. The adjustable rear adds a little more weight back vs. the standard non-adjustable rear due to hardware we use on it vs. the standard bar, but still lighter than most any other bar setup in total and WAY less than any giant rear bar.

Remember that more is not just better here, especially on rear bars. The bigger the rear bar, the worse the car rides on uneven surfaces, the more prone to snap oversteer it is. The rear bar is a trim tool to work the balance of the car with a given front bar, wheel/tire, alignment setup, and specific use of the car.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

A car with a rear drag bar and no front actually feels very nice around corners. Very controlled. You would not want to drive fast or panic maneuver but as far as regular driving its fine.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I really don't want to get into a big debate about this, but I'm going to strongly disagree. See also the huge difference folks report by adding more front bar (either from nothing to stock, or from stock to something bigger).

The fact of the matter is simple. A sway bar is a torsion spring, and a big one especially in the front of the car and when we are talking about bars this big. We aren't talking 10 pounds of wheel rate here... we talking HUNDREDS of pounds, many hundreds of pounds.

I can't think of a car these days without at least a front bar of some size. Smaller cars have smaller bars. NO car has no front bar. And remember that OEM's like to pinch pennies and aren't even building the best handling cars they could but they STILL put front bars on. And they are putting them on street cars, commuter cars. Cars like lowly econoboxes, etc. They aren't doing that for fun or to save themselves money.

We go around and around about this. The drag racers always it's fine. But I have two issues with that. 1. I use my stuff on the street, where corners exist. I like a good handling car, and well this is the Suspension and Handling section, not a drag race section so that's what I'm thinking about. Most of the folks I talk to want the car to drive the best it can and aren't looking so much for "meh that's good enough". If you want good enough, leave the car alone. 2. I've had front bar mounts fail on the car rendering the bar useless on a few cars a few times over the years (the stock tables the bar mounts on, and a few times endlinks that snapped, other brands...) and it's very noticeable when that happens when you get an A/B comparison.

I tell folks all the time the two biggest things you can do to improve these cars, right away are better shocks and better bars. More than anything else those two things. More than springs, more than SFC's, or LCA's, or Watts links. Don't kid yourself, they are big.

If you want to take the stance that the car is fine rolling down the street in a straight line @ 40mph that's ok, and I won't disagree. But that's not how folks who like the cars to handle are driving their cars most of the time. And lots of things are "ok" some of the time, but we're looking to make things better most of, or all of the time. At least that's what I seek to do around here.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

I'm with ya sam. However, I could take you for a ride on a curvy country road and we can maintain all posted speed limits and with my drag suspension and youd see its perfectly fine and controlled. Yes the drag bar can be a little harsh over sharp bumps, the shocks a little mushy over long swooping type bumps, but in general as long as the road is decent the ride isnt bad. Posted speeds are never an issue, not even a little. So there lies the difference between "some of the time" cause in my opinion thats most of the time, and for me personally all the time cause I dont speed in corners. Agree to disagree on that one

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

You seem to think I've never been in a car without a front bar. Maintaining posted speed limits isn't exactly a big thing to me, maybe it is to others.

I think this is about managing wants and expectations. I want the car better, not good enough to run posted speed limits that any rental car can easily do as well.

You said it yourself, you don't speed in corners. I can't think of anyone I know or deal with wanting a better handling car (and that's what we are talking about here I think) who thinks that's good enough. You can do that stock, easily.

We don't have to agree to disagree. I buy your statement, the trouble is the context of decent handling seem to be very, very, VERY different. I think we can agree on that as well.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

And there lies the original issue. I see HC stalled auto as a generally straightline setup, you didnt, he hasnt been back to clarify. We are officially pissing in the wind.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I have a lot of folks that like better handling who have heads, cams swaps and converters. That's the thing, the suspension doesn't really care if the heads are stock or not, or if you have a converter. And while drag racers do that stuff, so do many who never see a track.

None the less, even if he is drag racing a little that's where the adjustable rear bar comes in. See I think about this stuff. And if it's more hardcore he can disconnect the front bar if they want and get maximum weight transfer, and simply hook it back up and not have to settle for not having a bar.

Hell, even if he didn't upgrade bars at all (though that's what he was asking about) I'd sooner see him on stock bars than no front, big rear if the car gets *driven* harder than cruising down main street.

Badazz 97 TA

iTrader: (18)

I've had a drag bar with a stock front bar. while I daily drove the car several years I finally made the switch to stranos front and rear hollows earlier this year. the difference was amazing. The car is nimble and actually pleasant to drive again in more ways than one. I feel the car launches better too.

While the drag bar was tolerable and served its purpose it had nothing on a well balanced setup for even just daily driving. I'm sorry, but after making the switch the car isn't a turd anymore. I never realized how bad a drag bar was until after the switch lol. Again, it just comes down to what the driver/owner wants to tolerate.

M4N14C

iTrader: (3)

Granted I've never ridden in a fully drag setup F-Body but I have driven my Bird since it was bone stock and now it's a completely different car. I installed Strano's hollow bars after I did his recommended Koni/Strano spring upgrade and the difference was incredible. Car felt like it wanted to turn, you could hit the apex on every single turn on a twisty road going at least twice the speed limit (in Mexico of course ). And this was on rock hard 7 year old BFGoodrich tires.

ssjason232

iTrader: (14)

Buy the strano bars. I put them on a few months ago, it was a great upgrade from stock.

smitty2919

Suspension Techniques 35mm solid front, Hellwig 22mm solid 3 way adj rear...but that's coming from a guy can fall asleep at a drag strip...

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Except my bars (and we have a hollow adjustable rear) would save you, an easy 20 pounds (actually a bit more) vs. that combination of bars.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Im voting with sam on hollow. No reason to add extra weight if not required.

smitty2919

Agreed, but I'm not into the weight savings game. Now the FRONT bar...good lord that was a workout holding it in place That's a big sum b!tch.


Off topic, but do you know the rates of each position in your rear bars? Because I can't find anything on the Hellwig bar short of calling them and hoping someone will know. I believe I found something saying you worked with Hellwig to make your bars? At which point the rates on my solid bar would a touch higher than yours given the same bar geometry.

smitty2919

All comes down the diameter/material/solid or hollow. Given same geometry/bends (which is the case since both bars need to fit the same vehicle) a 35mm hollow will have less rate than 35mm solid. HOW much more rate will the solid have over hollow I'm not 100% sure but I could figure it out. End decision is if you want to give up rate for weight.

EDIT: Found Sam's bar is 35mm hollow and 487lb/in. The ST 35mm solid front bar is 699 lb/in (found an email I sent to them asking about it). There is about a $30 price difference between the bars but like Sam mentioned, maybe 15lbs weight advantage going hollow. The additional rate of the ST bar can be simply "tuned" out/in by stiffening my rear bar OR shocks.

If you are concerned about weight, going with hollow bars is a simple and easy way to do it. Sam designed/paired his bars in hollow form to work well, and I like the way my solid bars are paired. "Tomato...Tomahto"

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Im always thinking about weight. Every single pound matters. That's why my car weighs about 3k with a full stock appearance and nothing hole-sawed.