Handling and Lowering
Handling and Lowering I had some questions on what makes a tight, rigid, still drivable suspension, and opinions of manufacturers.
Here are my goals...
I want to build a suspension on an ~ '98 SS platform that will handle tightly in the corners yet still retain its driveablity. The car will not be a daily driver, but will still be driven on the street.
I have done alot of research on the forum and it seems as though lots of people like the Koni single adjustable shocks. What lowering springs (manufacturer, drop distance) should i be looking for to eliminate wheel gap, and increase corner speeds?? I have also been looking at BMR control arm relocation brackets, LCA, Panhard rod, and swaybars.. what do you guys think about BMR stuff???
Any help and Info would be great
Any pics and specs of your setup would be great too
Thanks
josh
Here are my goals...
I want to build a suspension on an ~ '98 SS platform that will handle tightly in the corners yet still retain its driveablity. The car will not be a daily driver, but will still be driven on the street.
I have done alot of research on the forum and it seems as though lots of people like the Koni single adjustable shocks. What lowering springs (manufacturer, drop distance) should i be looking for to eliminate wheel gap, and increase corner speeds?? I have also been looking at BMR control arm relocation brackets, LCA, Panhard rod, and swaybars.. what do you guys think about BMR stuff???
Any help and Info would be great
Any pics and specs of your setup would be great too
Thanks
josh
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 0
From: F.H,Waterford,Port Huron, MI
Yes the Koni Sa are very good, I would just go with a 1LE spring and set the spring seat on the lower koni setting! Sway bars are the next thing you want to look at! And of the most important tires and rims! BMR is a very good company I have one of everything they sell on my car! BMR is more made for Drag racing but depending on the parts you pick will do very well in handleing!
Here is some pics of my car as you can see the BMR parts. OH and the 17x10 and 17x11 wheels!
http://community.webshots.com/user/williamraedle
Here is some pics of my car as you can see the BMR parts. OH and the 17x10 and 17x11 wheels!
http://community.webshots.com/user/williamraedle
Subframe connectors, If you don't already have them. I was unsure about getting them and talked a lot with people on here. And man, I won't ever look back. There is a HUGE difference is stability and cornering. I noticed this with only fair driving, so I am sure the benefits are also huge to those that push their cars hard. my .02. 
Originally Posted by 2FAST4U
Yes the Koni Sa are very good, I would just go with a 1LE spring and set the spring seat on the lower koni setting! Sway bars are the next thing you want to look at! And of the most important tires and rims! BMR is a very good company I have one of everything they sell on my car! BMR is more made for Drag racing but depending on the parts you pick will do very well in handleing!
Here is some pics of my car as you can see the BMR parts. OH and the 17x10 and 17x11 wheels!
http://community.webshots.com/user/williamraedle
Here is some pics of my car as you can see the BMR parts. OH and the 17x10 and 17x11 wheels!
http://community.webshots.com/user/williamraedle
Go for the Koni's, and definitely get a set of SFC's. I'm going with LGM Hypercoil lowering springs, spohn spherical/poly LCA's, undetermined SFC's here in the next month or two. And a almost new set of stock shocks(can't afford shocks right now, these were cheap lol). I'm definitely going to notice the difference from what I've read. Next is the tq arm and sway bars.
A good alignment to performance specs and sticky tires will do the most good ...
If you are having to ask about handling, you should probably stay away from adjustable anything till you get some seat time and learn what the car is doing.
Address one issue at a time. There is no magic formula.
If you are having to ask about handling, you should probably stay away from adjustable anything till you get some seat time and learn what the car is doing.
Address one issue at a time. There is no magic formula.
I have experience with suspensions, just not F-body suspensions...
another question, I built a honda road course car and it required a Camber kit (adjusts for the camber and caster of lowering the car to minimize tire wear etc), do Fbodies require a Camber kit or anything similar...
Thanks for your advice guys, i apreciate it
another question, I built a honda road course car and it required a Camber kit (adjusts for the camber and caster of lowering the car to minimize tire wear etc), do Fbodies require a Camber kit or anything similar...
Thanks for your advice guys, i apreciate it
I haven't seen or heard of anyone needing a camber kit. At most, relocation brackets for the rear of the car will help with pinion angle and/or squat. Some people don't need them, myself included, but others needed them to get things lined back up.
The only other thing I can think of that can't be fixed with an alignment is the panhard rod bar. When f-bodies get lowered, the rear end gets off center. An adjustable panhard rod helps fix this.
-Mike
The only other thing I can think of that can't be fixed with an alignment is the panhard rod bar. When f-bodies get lowered, the rear end gets off center. An adjustable panhard rod helps fix this.
-Mike
Trending Topics
Originally Posted by majin
I have experience with suspensions, just not F-body suspensions...
another question, I built a honda road course car and it required a Camber kit (adjusts for the camber and caster of lowering the car to minimize tire wear etc), do Fbodies require a Camber kit or anything similar...
Thanks for your advice guys, i apreciate it
another question, I built a honda road course car and it required a Camber kit (adjusts for the camber and caster of lowering the car to minimize tire wear etc), do Fbodies require a Camber kit or anything similar...
Thanks for your advice guys, i apreciate it
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine
Verdad Gallardo
7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Originally Posted by majin
another question, I built a honda road course car and it required a Camber kit (adjusts for the camber and caster of lowering the car to minimize tire wear etc), do Fbodies require a Camber kit or anything similar...
But for road course racing, most people use aftermarket upper A-arms to get more camber on an Fbody. You can either use either fixed or adjustable A-arms. Depending on how much you lower the car, you can get a fair amount with the stock suspension parts, however. I think I got -1.7 degrees with my car lowered to 26 inches. IMO -2.5 degrees is optimum for the track, but you might get wear on the inside edges driving on the street with that much, unless you drive a lot of twisty roads every where. (I do so it hasn't hurt my tires) You would need the A-arms to get that much. -0.5 to -1.5* would probably be a better street setting for the average person that wants do corners on the street..
Last edited by Cal; Nov 7, 2004 at 09:08 PM.
Basically what I am hearing is get the Koni SA's, Stiffer Springs, Subframes, 35mm Swaybar, Adjustable Panhard Bar, and Adjustable Upper A-Bars. I would probably do it in this order too. I figure the Koni's would help the most followed by the springs, subframes and swaybar. From then on out its all adjusting for the right feeling of the car.
Someone correct me if this doesn't sound quite right...
Thanks guys for all your help.
Someone correct me if this doesn't sound quite right...
Thanks guys for all your help.
In order of making the most difference in cornering speed, I would rank them this way:
1) Sticky tires with stiff sidewalls on wide wheels
2) Koni SA's
3) Adjustable UCA's set for -2.5* camber
3) 36.5 mm hollow Hotchkiss front bar, 1LE 21 mm solid rear bar
4) 500/150 lb/in coil overs adjusted for 26 inch ride height
5) Adjustable Panhard Bar with rod ends, and SLP SFC's
Adjust the front Koni's for midrange, rear Koni's just above minimum.
Put your tires on rims that are at the upper end of the range, not the lower end. For example, 275 tires need a 10" wide rim for best cornering, not the 9" rim that comes on a SS. Stay away from rims that are more than 17" diameter on the rear. 16" diameter is even better, particularly on the rear. Remember, you have a "live" axle, which means for serious cornering, the tires ARE the rear suspension.
Try to get all the rubber out of the suspension; replace with metal rod ends or at least polyureathane bushings. Don't use poly on rear LCA's.
The SFC's really don't improve handling that much, but help to protect the car. I would strongly consider a cage instead of the SFC's; it will stiffen the car more and save your *** if you ever wind up rubber-side up. Along those same lines, a 5-point harness is an excellent addition and will improve your driving as well as safety. Stock seat belts are a joke; trust me, I've been upside-down.
A lot of this probably goes against what you have heard, but the above is a proven formula for handling with our cars. For more information, go to www.frrax.com . . .
1) Sticky tires with stiff sidewalls on wide wheels
2) Koni SA's
3) Adjustable UCA's set for -2.5* camber
3) 36.5 mm hollow Hotchkiss front bar, 1LE 21 mm solid rear bar
4) 500/150 lb/in coil overs adjusted for 26 inch ride height
5) Adjustable Panhard Bar with rod ends, and SLP SFC's
Adjust the front Koni's for midrange, rear Koni's just above minimum.
Put your tires on rims that are at the upper end of the range, not the lower end. For example, 275 tires need a 10" wide rim for best cornering, not the 9" rim that comes on a SS. Stay away from rims that are more than 17" diameter on the rear. 16" diameter is even better, particularly on the rear. Remember, you have a "live" axle, which means for serious cornering, the tires ARE the rear suspension.
Try to get all the rubber out of the suspension; replace with metal rod ends or at least polyureathane bushings. Don't use poly on rear LCA's.
The SFC's really don't improve handling that much, but help to protect the car. I would strongly consider a cage instead of the SFC's; it will stiffen the car more and save your *** if you ever wind up rubber-side up. Along those same lines, a 5-point harness is an excellent addition and will improve your driving as well as safety. Stock seat belts are a joke; trust me, I've been upside-down.
A lot of this probably goes against what you have heard, but the above is a proven formula for handling with our cars. For more information, go to www.frrax.com . . .
Last edited by Cal; Nov 9, 2004 at 11:31 AM.
Who makes good UCA's and Coil Overs. I saw quite a few guys running on the Ground Controls...
Are the "Upper A-Bars" and the "UCA's" the same thing???
Thanks for all the input Cal, I appreciate it...
Are the "Upper A-Bars" and the "UCA's" the same thing???
Thanks for all the input Cal, I appreciate it...
Glad to help, majin. Yeah Upper Control Arm = Upper A-arm, etc. Ground Control CO's seem to be very popular, I think because the price is right and they work well. There are others that are good also, but cost a lot more. I've heard Ground Control is a pain to deal with, so you might want to go through Sam Strano and let him deal with them. It won't cost you any more. I think the cheapest workable option on the UCA's is Global West. They aren't adjustable, but they have the right offset to get you as much camber as you need. There are others with rod ends that are fully adjustable, but expensive. I think LG and BMR has them; I'd go with LG.
"1) Sticky tires with stiff sidewalls on wide wheels
2) Koni SA's
3) Adjustable UCA's set for -2.5* camber
3) 36.5 mm hollow Hotchkiss front bar, 1LE 21 mm solid rear bar
4) 500/150 lb/in coil overs adjusted for 26 inch ride height
5) Adjustable Panhard Bar with rod ends, and SLP SFC's"
/\
||
How much wheel gap would that eliminate??
I know that you can set the CO's to whatever, but what is the stock hieght?
(wheel gap eliminated = stock ride height - new ride height (26"))
I have seen alot of guys reccomending 17" wheels, and as wide as possible...
What sort of trouble would I run into with a big wheel and low profile tire with a 26" ride height? I want a wide tire all around, however I do not want it to protrude from the fender well. This requires the correct offset, but what suspension aspects would be affected as well?
Thanks again Cal for your help
BTW www.frrax.com rocks!!!
2) Koni SA's
3) Adjustable UCA's set for -2.5* camber
3) 36.5 mm hollow Hotchkiss front bar, 1LE 21 mm solid rear bar
4) 500/150 lb/in coil overs adjusted for 26 inch ride height
5) Adjustable Panhard Bar with rod ends, and SLP SFC's"
/\
||
How much wheel gap would that eliminate??
I know that you can set the CO's to whatever, but what is the stock hieght?
(wheel gap eliminated = stock ride height - new ride height (26"))
I have seen alot of guys reccomending 17" wheels, and as wide as possible...
What sort of trouble would I run into with a big wheel and low profile tire with a 26" ride height? I want a wide tire all around, however I do not want it to protrude from the fender well. This requires the correct offset, but what suspension aspects would be affected as well?
Thanks again Cal for your help
BTW www.frrax.com rocks!!!
Stock height of my car was 27.5 front, and 28 rear. At 26" I have about 3/8" gap left above the wheel with 275/40-17's, and maybe only 1/8 to 1/4 with 295/35-18's. Let me say again, the 18's are for looks only. They don't allow enough sidewall compliance on the rear of an fbody, meaning the rear will lose traction way before the front in a turn. They work on Z06's because they have an IRS rear end. On the front end they may be OK, but who likes the look of bigger front wheels than rear? I run 275/45-16 Hoosier race tires on 16x10 CCW wheels on all four corners for autoX racing, and the car handls MUCH better, and is much more ballanced.
I think the 295's are the biggest you can get under there without the tire going outside the fender on the front end. That would be using the Z06 rear wheel offset on the front end of your fbody. A lot of guys race on 315's, but they require 3/4" wheel spacers on the front end, and they do stick out past the fender.
I think the 295's are the biggest you can get under there without the tire going outside the fender on the front end. That would be using the Z06 rear wheel offset on the front end of your fbody. A lot of guys race on 315's, but they require 3/4" wheel spacers on the front end, and they do stick out past the fender.
Last edited by Cal; Nov 10, 2004 at 03:28 PM.
Yeah 295's would be great if you could get them for a 17" rim, but I've never seen that size. I'd do all four the same size, it will be easier to tune the suspension. You could use 275/40-17's on 17x10 wheels, or even 285/40-17's on 10.5 or 11 inch rims. The problem then is finding 17x10 wheels; CCW (Complete Custom Wheel in Florida) would probably make you some with the offset you specify, but that's expensive. Actually their wheels are worth the cost because of how light and strong they are. That's why a lot of people end up running 315's on 17x11 ZR1 replica's; they are cheap. Unfortunately they are heavy and stick out.