JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Well, I see a few thing wrong with what was done. First, the metallurgy (sp?) of the factory rotors is just bad. You don't want to replace a factory rotor with another factory rotor. There are cheap, good quality rotors out there, namely the Autozone Duralast at about $40ea. or the Brembo blanks at about $60 ea.

Also, when tightening a wheel, you want to torque the lugs in a criss cross star pattern. That is even more important than the actual tightness.

Stock pads are OK, but don't grab worth a damn.
Hawk makes about 12 different compounds, which pads did you try, HPS, HP+, etc...?
Are you using the Hawk ceramic pads now or another ceramic pad?
Do you ever bed the pads in?

Most of the high performance pads require less pressure because they grab better. I know I have to relearn braking because when warm, my pads will lock up a tire pretty easy on the street. I have to be gentle on the pedal. So if you tried some Hawk pads that required MORE pressure, something doesn't sound right.

With your current setup, what is the highest actual speed you can get the brakes to activate the ABS? 30mph, 50, 70, 90, 120 etc...?
Also what tires are you running?

kapsz28

iTrader: (6)

I know how to torque the bolts. I always use a criss-cross pattern and usually do 50, 75, and then 100ft lbs. I am sure the people that changed my tires used that pattern, but the ******* were always on there really tight. The only reason I ever stayed with factory rotors is because my dealer replaced them under warranty. The hawk pads were the HPS. Right now I have the ProACT pads. I don't remember seeing Hawk ceramic pads on tirerack.com, but maybe I will try those next.



As for the ABS, I never really tested it. I know I have felt it kick in around 100mph, but usually because the tire hits a bump or pot hole when braking. Most of the time the ABS kicks in when driving in the rain. I currently have g-Force KDW tires up front and Nitto R2's in the rear. I basically wore out the KDW's and threw on the Nittos for the track. I was thinking about trying the g-Force KD's or even the new Goodyears next. At least the Nittos stick for the most part when accelerating, but I need something good in the rain.



So, what brake setup do you suggest that does NOT squeal when braking? Brembo blanks with ceramic Hawk pads? Are these blanks the ones that are about $275 for all 4? To me, the cross-drilled brakes just feel like they bite better than standard rotors. I could care-less what my brakes look like. I just want ones that work without warping.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

The only pads that I have tried that would fit your requirements were the Williams S2 pads. They are an autocross specific pad. They are silent once bedded in. Only dust a little and what dust there is can be easily wiped off. The thing I didn't like was the lack of initial bite. They grip like stock when you first press the pedal and then ramp up in strength. At which point you have to modulate the pedal to make sure you don't lock a wheel. The advantage of that is that it doesn't upset the cars balance. That is vital in an autocross situation.

I personally wanted a pad that had a good initial bite, so I was a bit disappointed with the S2. They are way stronger than stock, though. To explain a little, the fastest I tested the S2 pads at were 90mph. You brake hard at 90 and it grabs about like stock so the nose goes down smoothly instead of violently. A second later the car is down to 75 and you can feel the pads ramp up in strength. At 70, they were locking up and lifting me out of my seat. At this point you have to modulate the brakes, which is easily done. This experience is when I became a brake junkie.

On my stock pads, the fastest I could lock a wheel was 40mph and this is running Nitto R's all around. So 70+ lock ability is a huge improvement.

I swapped those pads after 6 weeks and put on a set of Carbotech Panther Pluses. They are dirtier and do squeek some, but have strong initial bite and are even more powerfull than the S2. I don't have a reason to upgrade these. The noise isn't too bad, I usually can't hear it over the radio anyway. It's a quiet squeek. I think of it as the sound of power.

To get more power without noise you would need a bigger rotor. It allows a milder pad to grip a bit stronger simply because you have more mechanical leverage. LG Motorsports makes some adapter brackets to mount your stock caliper to a 13" corvette rotor for about $250. Vette rotors are real cheap now and are less likely to warp. It's pretty cost effective, but can be a hassle using the 16 spare as it won't fit anymore.

Bad30th

iTrader: (13)

Someone please tell me why the most expensive and best brakes I can buy for my car (Baer or Wilwood) are drilled and/or slotted.

Marketing ? I doubt it. If a solid rotor was better they would be solid. Why are there no $2000 aftermarket solid brake rotors ?

FWIW, I never noticed any difference between new stock brake rotors/pads and new blingy stuff.

Bad30th

VIP1

Baer admits that its pretty much just for appearance:
http://baer.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.exe/0...94033600003955

Wilwood also admits that its pretty much just for appearance:
http://www.wilwood.com/Centers/Infor..._answer/07.asp

Judd

iTrader: (1)

My word, straight out of the horses mouth! I'll have to keep a copy of both those links. Thanks for posting them.

VIP1

You are welcome.
Check out the link in my first post and you'll find more stuff like that.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I was just thinking about that last night. I bet a good chunk of their customers buy those brakes for the looks, not for max performance. You have to ask yourself, would you spend $2,000 for a solid rotor setup? Probably not. I would guess the loss of performance due to less contact area is pretty small, so they may justify that in exchange for a better looking product which will ultimately result in more sales. These are all just my thoughts on those companies.

I have seen Ferrari's with solid rotors and 4 piston calipers. The new Mercedes McClaren SLR supercar looks to have solids. I bet there are others out there.

I think the only cars that may really benefit are rally cars. The slots probably do clean the mud and dirt off the pads.

Bad30th

iTrader: (13)

Thanks for the info ! I always wondered about why they would make the big $ rotors that way - since I pretty much knew from reading that drilled wasn't what it was "cracked" up to be.

(get it ? rotors ? cracked ? lol.).

Cheers,
Bad30th

VIP1

Yea good one.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Well, I put a few hairline cracks in the Rotorpros. I put too much heat in them at one time. Going to replace them with some blanks.

I suppose if you had less agressive pads and were on the street, they are OK. But with Panther+ and repetetive hard braking it's going to ruin them, get some blanks in that case.

Live and learn.

Also, my Panther+'s don't squeek anymore! Just took a drive. I guess if you get them hot enough, they bed in and get quiet. One good thing to come of this.

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

I still cant figure out why some racecars, and the new z06 come with drilled and slotted rotors if there is no performance gain. The z06 isnt a car i would think they'd use parts merely aesthetics on, it seems pretty purpose built.

RICRH8R

Its been my observation that high end race cars like F1 use cross drilled rotors. However they have very few holes. They also have carbon pads and carbon rotors. They have to bring a 1300lb car from over 200mph to 45mph and if yall watched the canadian gran prix last week 2 cars had the brakes explode from the heat and crash.
I dont think any autocross car can even get the brakes that hot. So crossdrilled on anything but the fastest of racecars are for looks. The Baer eradi-speeds are overkill.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

You can't really compare us to F1 cars, too many differences.

Their carbon rotor and carbon pads are mainly used for it's light weight more than anything. They don't even start working until about 1200*F which is about where ours stop working (depending on pad etc...).

They even change the rotor thickness for each track depending on how hard that track is on the brakes.

Do they really have cross drilled holes? Everytime I've seen them they had so much ducting around the disc you only see the outer edge.

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

i didnt mean to compare, just wondering.

RICRH8R

The idea was to show that they are only used/needed in the most extreme cars and not nearly as exstensive as the baer rotors are.

Judd

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty sure that GM could have built the ZO6 with better aeroynamics but more than likely, it would not have looked as good. Perfect example of form over function.

Look at sport bikes, builders could easily make the bikes with better arodynamics {think of a cigar shaped fairing} but they would look butt ugly. Butt ugly bikes that look like cigars don't sell well. Alot of sport bike builders are locating the exhaust canisters under the rear seat even though most of the time, it compromises power and weight and it really isn't needed for cornering clearence.

Why do they do it? Because consumers went ape-crap over the look once they saw it on the Ducati. Another example of form over function. Remember that sport bikes are some of the most single minded, razor edge vehicles built and even they will do stuff that hurts performance just to sell bikes.

krazyglu

i've learned a lot in this thread, so thanks for the knowledge...
one thing i've heard is that an advantage to slotted rotors is that the slots clean off the pads, so the pads don't "glaze" over under high temp braking so there's less fade, not related to gas build-up, just the pads getting so hot they create a glaze that doesn't brake as well, so the slots scrape them clean...
can someone address this and let me know, cause i'm looking to buy new brakes right now

slowpoke96z28

iTrader: (2)

Also,as stated before the "racecars" you see are way lighter than street cars

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I was just watching some taped coverage of the US Grand Prix from this weekend and saw the rotors of a few of the F1 cars, they were blanks. No holes or slots except in the edge for air cooling just like a factory car.

I don't know if I mentioned it here or not, but keep in mind that aggressive pads are capable of producing more heat and in less time. The factory pads on the other hand may not have heat related problems simply because it produces much less friction (which means less performance). So if your using factory or just a small step above, you would probably not crack a drilled or slotted rotor.
Whereas most of the people that have cracked them were also using a more aggressive pad. That's my theory at the moment.

Has anyone cracked a x-drilled/slotted rotor with factory or similar (like Hawk HPS) type of pad?
I'd sure like to know.