Green fade is the curing of the adhesive that composes composite brake pads, thus the fade is caused intially by the outgassing from the pads. I know you're already familiar with this Jason, however before some of you rush to buy drilled rotors, this green fade should only occur during bedding in and no time after on the same set of pads.

If I'm not mistaken, I have read that during this curing process of "bedding in", some material is supposed to be transferred to the rotor face itself. Many "street pad" instructions advise that one should not attempt to brake from more than 60mph when slowing to ~5mph. Once again, not an expert, just referering to some of the bedding instructions, which are very similar to my suggestions. My take would be to continue braking from 60 to ~5mph a few more times to attempt to cause the green fade, rather than to increase the intial speed to brake from.

I'm not too sure if some brake pads are pre-cured, however I have never had a set of pads that come pre-cured from the factory, since the bedding process is to distribute some even pad material on the rotor face. If one brakes too hard upon bedding or by holding the front brakes immediately after completing all necessary passes when the rotors are at a high temperature, then the material can be distributed unevely on the face causing vibration.

You guys probably already know this, just decided to offer help, even if it may be redundant.

 

OK, I think the Carbotech are already cured, so green fade probably doesn't factor in. You still need to bed them in which means getting the surface of the pads hot enough to transfer some of the pad material into the pores of the cast iron rotor surface as well as get the wear grooves matched between the rotor and pad.

I probably over did it. 80-5 6 times back to back is a tad excessive. I was rowing through those gears boy! 1st, 2nd, hold 3rd until 80 then clutch in and break hard. It was fun, although more stops from 60 or so with about 30seconds in between might have been better.

I was told the drilled/slotted rotors are fine for street, just don't race them. That's correct. They weren't as tough as I thought they were. The heat discolored them somewhat, a nice blue/green rainbow color, you know. The paint on the rotor hats and the paint on the caliper held up, though.

 

Oops! I forgot to mention that when you perform the bedding process, you only want to brake hard enough to slow the vehicle in a gradual but firm manner, and not so hard that you can practically feel the "complete rear weight bias shift" forward. You want to firmly press the pedal in a manner where you slowly hold the brakes until you approach ~5mph. after each "stop", then proceed to 60, then brake in a controlled manner once again (preferably as many times as needed from 60 with street pads).

If you stomp so hard on the brakes from 60 to get to ~5mph like you would in a braking contest, you have a greater risk of uneven pad transfer. If any expert wants to correct me on this, okay, however the basic principle is to intitally brake hard enough with enough "rotations" to embed enough pad material consistently through gradual heating of rotors and pads. When one brakes too hard at first, obviously the rotor will like have less rotations to slow or stop, which is what you need after bedding in and certainly not before bedding as mentioned previously.

Also, the brake rotor should show signs of a "grayish colour" from the pad transfer, and possibly a "bluish" tint. When you wash off any brake dust, or wash the brake system (when it's already cooled) most of this discolouration will disappear, but the brakes will perform significantly better.

As far as cross-drilled holes, mostly cosmetic. You shouldn't experience so much outgassing, where you need the "holes" all of the time. The out gassing should not occur more than a few times, and that's during the bedding process.

Oh, and btw, not to insult anybody's intelligence around here, but DO NOT FORGET to wash your unplated rotors with soap and water, preferably with an abrasive pad before installing the rotors. You don't know what kind of anti-corrosive material is on the rotor, and if that stuff gets on your pads through braking, a very bad day has just begun.

 

Hey, my Panther+'s don't squeek anymore! Just took a drive. I guess if you get them hot enough, they bed in and get quiet. One good thing to come of this.

 

Hawk HPS pads here!!

Great bite, Low dust and quite as a mouse ..............

 

i have axxis..and they are great~~ quiet and no DUST... maybe just lil.. but itz great.

 

Hawks, very satisfied.

 

I'm guessing their HPS pad?

 

They'll squeak again....

When they do, go out and crack another set of rotors and they'll be fine. (usually a few hard stops to get them hot and they were quiet for another few weeks).

 

Yes, sorry should have been more specific. I went with power slot rotors (was time to turn my stokers again so I opted) and hawk hps. Very happy with results. I had been running a ceramic pad on stock rotors, its night and day of course because of the different hardnesses, but with the new setup it just feels more grippy and solid when I hit the brakes. Perfect braking right now is how I would describe it, but I took my time doing the job and used plenty of brake clean. Checked each floater(caliper) pin to make sure it move freely, adjusted the parking brake accordingly, used locktite where needed. Did as best of a quality job as I could. Brakes are like new, car at 75k, I'm very pleased.

 

Yep, however If there is an OEM style rotor that can withstand the heat required for bedding in, then maybe there is a way to prevent cracking rotors. I think the only that comes to mind is is a larger rotor (not practical).

 

That was a joke. JasonWW was re-bedding his Carbotech Panthers and cracked his drilled rotors the other day. That's why I told him to "go crack another set". I've had surface "checking" (small cracks, 1/8" long) on my blanks, but I never broke one (and trust me, I "tried").

 

Yea, I cracked them, but couldn't feel a difference. Next day you could feel the pedal get shaky, they were getting worse, so I had to replace them ASAP. I put a set of front Duralasts on Monday and scuffed the pads. All fine now. Squeek is back. I may replace the rears with Duralasts and then bed them in. I think I'm also using too much pedal pressure during bedding. We'll see.

It's funny, the fresh rotors actually feel stronger than the old ones did. It always seems these pads feel strong at first and as the weeks tick by, get less grippy. After both bedding sessions with the other rotors it didn't really feel any better. I'm obviously not doing something right.

I am planning to add some brake ducts and although I didn't have the money to go with a larger rotor, I might in the future.
The vette rotor brackets are only $250 and I think I found a 17" spare solution.

 

Remember, only enough pressure to heat the pads and rotors, not "panic style" stops. When you do get to ~5mph, try not to come to a complete stop and rest your foot on the pedal. Even blanks will be screwed up this way.

Yes trackbird, Jason mentioned he was running drilled rotors. I am against running them for spirited driving, however there might be a remote possiblity that there might be some that would withstand the abuse, though the law of physics still says no.

 

Trust me, I'm no fan of drilled rotors. That's pretty common knowledge around here.

 

My SBS pads do the same thing. I have the Pro-Track pad, and I have to heat the **** out of them about once a week to keep them quiet. They aren't the greatest pad, either. Lots of dust and not much bite. I'll be replacing them soon. Anyone know if Carbotech makes pads for a B-type Alcon?

I've used Polymatrix street pads (horrible), Hawk HPS (not bad), Hawk Blue (love 'em when they're hot), EBC Greenstuff (only good on motorcycles), SBS Pro-Track (see above), and of course, the good 'ol stock pad. Besides the Hawk Blue, I haven't found one I like yet.

On a side note, I really don't like drilled rotors either. We get a lot of M cars through the shop with aftermarket drilled rotors (and BMW just started putting them on M3 competition package cars) and they all seem to be cracked. I haven't cracked mine yet, but I probably will.

 

I feel bad about hijacking this thread. Anyone have any info on quiet pads like the author asked about?

 

Yes, they do. I had a set of 4 piston Alcon brakes (that I never used and then sold) and I called them about pads. I was told it was an Alcon B pad and they do have them available. Give them a call....

 

What about the Hawk Blue Pads aren't they better than the HPs?

 

If you don't like your rotors, sure, give them a shot.

Seriously, the Blues are amazingly aggressive and are known to absolutely chew up rotors. I would run a carbotech race pad on the street long before those. If you want/need a pad of that capability, try the Panther Plus pads from Carbotech. You'll be better off (in my opinion at least).