who has aftermarket brakes? BAER/Brembo/willwood?
07-13-2005, 11:53 AM
#41
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No, I like a car to look classy and still have a strong engine and supporting trans and rear end......
See sig........im a little more then a rice burner.........give me som credit....
See sig........im a little more then a rice burner.........give me som credit....
07-13-2005, 12:06 PM
#42
Has anybody used or looked at the stainless steel brake co. part number a123-9 front kit. This is a kit that uses the C5 rotor, 531 backing plate pads, custom 4 piston calipers with a cage that mounts to the original 98-02 spindle points. The calipers use a 43 mm piston that can be rebuilt with 70's corvette rebuild parts from any parts store. The cost with all parts including SS lines is $1165.00. Please let me know if you has seen these in use. thanks
07-13-2005, 12:26 PM
#43
Originally Posted by TAwananbe
No, I like a car to look classy and still have a strong engine and supporting trans and rear end......
See sig........im a little more then a rice burner.........give me som credit....
See sig........im a little more then a rice burner.........give me som credit....
It was nothing personal, just a perception based upon your questions.
I would have thought knowing about pad compounds that are available, sourcing rotors, the type brake fluid to use, any braking imbalance issues, can the OEm master cylinder handle the added load would be more important to a performance junkie than lamenting over a decal ...
Again, Nothing personal just an observation ...
07-13-2005, 12:44 PM
#44
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10-4 here
Yes, I just thought you were calling me rice!
Im still investigating.......those questions are latter and funny you should ask, I was just about to ask about the brake balencing things and master cylinder....
You guys know how it is...Somethings look real good on cars. Somethings dont.
I didnt want to be the only guy(owner) that though theses brakes looked good....Cough ....cough.........ricer stuff (decals, badges, lights, etc)
Yes, I just thought you were calling me rice!
Im still investigating.......those questions are latter and funny you should ask, I was just about to ask about the brake balencing things and master cylinder....
You guys know how it is...Somethings look real good on cars. Somethings dont.
I didnt want to be the only guy(owner) that though theses brakes looked good....Cough ....cough.........ricer stuff (decals, badges, lights, etc)
07-13-2005, 01:15 PM
#45
A few things in no particular order.
The Porsche kit that Steve D builds is outstanding. I did the install shown (that link is from my personal website) and it will take a reasonably proficient mechanic "several hours" (a lazy afternoon?). The kit works great and has been proven over and over again by Mitch and dozens of guys just like him (and thousands of road course miles). They work and work well. As Mitch said, changing pads is simple. Pull a pin, remove the bridge "rod", remove pads. The install is just as easy. And....Steve will take great care of you. It's a great kit.
The Wilwood SL6 calipers. They will fit under 17" wheels (I know, because I'm currently running a set). They also allow pad changes by removing the bridge bolt (not a pin in this kit, it's an allen bolt in a sleve with a nut....don't lose them). But, it's difficult to push the pads back. I usually use a set of pliers on the top of the pad and the notch for the bridge bolt (you will mark up the calipers this way). It's a little trickier to push the pistons back. I usually use a screwdriver between the pad (backing plate) and the piston (after pulling them back with the pliers). It's clumsy, but I usually don't have the tool I need when I need to change pads (the best planning and all that).
Another thing, the 6 piston wilwood calipers were never designed for street use. They are missing dust seals and (more importantly) provisions for shims and such to keep them quiet. Mine are quite loud to very loud on the street. This may be magnified by the heat resistant thermo lock piston inserts (high temp inserts for "short track" use) that I'm running. Your results may vary, but mine are loud enough that my wife wants me to remove them......
As to the 6 piston Porsche style caliper (and some others) needing 18" wheels. That is because the arc of the pad is designed for a 14" (give or take) rotor. If you used a rotor that was small enough to get the 17" wheel over it, it would only touch the inside of the pads (leaving a large portion outside the sweep of the rotor and wasting much of your braking performance). So, in order to fit a proper rotor to those calipers, you'll need the 18" wheels.
Nascar usually uses a 12.75" rotor with a "massive" caliper (and a 1.25" or thicker rotor, very heavy rotors, but not huge diameters). This is for short track/road course racing where maximum brake capacity is needed. Couple that with some extremely aggressive brake pads (high temp race pads) and they seem to do just fine for their applications. It's a different approach to brake design, but it's not that different. Great pads can make up for many things. You either need enough rotor (as a heat sink) to absorb the amount of energy you have to absorb while keeping the pads within their temp range, or you need pads with a higher temp range. They use a combination of both.
The C5 conversion parts. The C5 kit is a great upgrade for someone with a smaller budget or for street use or lapping days. The C5 rotor is slightly smaller and potentially less durable than the Porsche rotor (though they still hold up rather well). But they are $18 each and not $130-ish each. You'll buy more of them if you run the kit hard, but you can afford to. I'll not try to convince you that the kits are equal, they are not, but the C5 kit can work very, very well for someone who needs upgraded brakes for street or track use. Also, you can get parts at any NAPA when out on a road trip. (With my Wilwoods, I carry a set of pads in the car with me....just in case). It's a small thing, but something to keep in mind. The C5 stuff is a great way to go if your budget does not allow the Porsche based kit. Also, what is known as the Bob Bishop kit is back in production (Bob sold the design to someone else to build), there is a gp on camaroz28.com right now if you're looking for the original C5 kit.
There are plenty of choices for brake upgrades for these cars that will fit almost any budget. It's a good time to be an enthusiast who needs/wants larger brakes on an F-body.
The Porsche kit that Steve D builds is outstanding. I did the install shown (that link is from my personal website) and it will take a reasonably proficient mechanic "several hours" (a lazy afternoon?). The kit works great and has been proven over and over again by Mitch and dozens of guys just like him (and thousands of road course miles). They work and work well. As Mitch said, changing pads is simple. Pull a pin, remove the bridge "rod", remove pads. The install is just as easy. And....Steve will take great care of you. It's a great kit.
The Wilwood SL6 calipers. They will fit under 17" wheels (I know, because I'm currently running a set). They also allow pad changes by removing the bridge bolt (not a pin in this kit, it's an allen bolt in a sleve with a nut....don't lose them). But, it's difficult to push the pads back. I usually use a set of pliers on the top of the pad and the notch for the bridge bolt (you will mark up the calipers this way). It's a little trickier to push the pistons back. I usually use a screwdriver between the pad (backing plate) and the piston (after pulling them back with the pliers). It's clumsy, but I usually don't have the tool I need when I need to change pads (the best planning and all that).
Another thing, the 6 piston wilwood calipers were never designed for street use. They are missing dust seals and (more importantly) provisions for shims and such to keep them quiet. Mine are quite loud to very loud on the street. This may be magnified by the heat resistant thermo lock piston inserts (high temp inserts for "short track" use) that I'm running. Your results may vary, but mine are loud enough that my wife wants me to remove them......
As to the 6 piston Porsche style caliper (and some others) needing 18" wheels. That is because the arc of the pad is designed for a 14" (give or take) rotor. If you used a rotor that was small enough to get the 17" wheel over it, it would only touch the inside of the pads (leaving a large portion outside the sweep of the rotor and wasting much of your braking performance). So, in order to fit a proper rotor to those calipers, you'll need the 18" wheels.
Nascar usually uses a 12.75" rotor with a "massive" caliper (and a 1.25" or thicker rotor, very heavy rotors, but not huge diameters). This is for short track/road course racing where maximum brake capacity is needed. Couple that with some extremely aggressive brake pads (high temp race pads) and they seem to do just fine for their applications. It's a different approach to brake design, but it's not that different. Great pads can make up for many things. You either need enough rotor (as a heat sink) to absorb the amount of energy you have to absorb while keeping the pads within their temp range, or you need pads with a higher temp range. They use a combination of both.
The C5 conversion parts. The C5 kit is a great upgrade for someone with a smaller budget or for street use or lapping days. The C5 rotor is slightly smaller and potentially less durable than the Porsche rotor (though they still hold up rather well). But they are $18 each and not $130-ish each. You'll buy more of them if you run the kit hard, but you can afford to. I'll not try to convince you that the kits are equal, they are not, but the C5 kit can work very, very well for someone who needs upgraded brakes for street or track use. Also, you can get parts at any NAPA when out on a road trip. (With my Wilwoods, I carry a set of pads in the car with me....just in case). It's a small thing, but something to keep in mind. The C5 stuff is a great way to go if your budget does not allow the Porsche based kit. Also, what is known as the Bob Bishop kit is back in production (Bob sold the design to someone else to build), there is a gp on camaroz28.com right now if you're looking for the original C5 kit.
There are plenty of choices for brake upgrades for these cars that will fit almost any budget. It's a good time to be an enthusiast who needs/wants larger brakes on an F-body.
07-13-2005, 02:49 PM
#46
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good write up!
I think im swaying towards the bear 2 pistons alum calipers for around a grand...
Way more in my budget and better then stock........
Id really think about the porsche brakes but im trying to save for a poss ring wedding, and house soon..
Im only 22 with 2 cars and all the above coming up....
I think im swaying towards the bear 2 pistons alum calipers for around a grand...
Way more in my budget and better then stock........
Id really think about the porsche brakes but im trying to save for a poss ring
wedding, and house soon..Im only 22 with 2 cars and all the above coming up....
07-13-2005, 10:39 PM
#48
TECH Fanatic
Originally Posted by TAwananbe
what is FEA?
There are generally two types of analysis that are used in industry: 2-D modeling, and 3-D modeling. While 2-D modeling conserves simplicity and allows the analysis to be run on a relatively normal computer, it tends to yield less accurate results. 3-D modeling, however, produces more accurate results while sacrificing the ability to run on all but the fastest computers effectively. Within each of these modeling schemes, the programmer can insert numerous algorithms (functions) which may make the system behave linearly or non-linearly. Linear systems are far less complex and generally do not take into account plastic deformation. Non-linear systems do account for plastic deformation, and many also are capable of testing a material all the way to fracture.
FEA has become a solution to the task of predicting failure due to unknown stresses by showing problem areas in a material and allowing designers to see all of the theoretical stresses within. This method of product design and testing is far superior to the manufacturing costs which would accrue if each sample was actually built and tested.
In short, a company can scrutinize a single component (like a single half of a two piece caliper) and concentrait on the aspects of fatigue through stress and vibrational analysis and make it more dense, rigid, lighter in weight and support an increase in strength, while at the same time, making it less susceptable to distructive testing. It also allows a company to do research and development without actually manufacturing a component until it has met the set conditions.
Originally Posted by steve-d
Nice to know a American company is making these. I wonder where they are manufactured?
Last edited by chicane; 07-13-2005 at 10:48 PM.
07-14-2005, 01:57 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by TAwananbe
good write up!
I think im swaying towards the bear 2 pistons alum calipers for around a grand...
Way more in my budget and better then stock........
Id really think about the porsche brakes but im trying to save for a poss ring wedding, and house soon..
Im only 22 with 2 cars and all the above coming up....
I think im swaying towards the bear 2 pistons alum calipers for around a grand...
Way more in my budget and better then stock........
Id really think about the porsche brakes but im trying to save for a poss ring
wedding, and house soon..Im only 22 with 2 cars and all the above coming up....
07-14-2005, 03:28 AM
#51
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I have a Prospeed brake kit 996 under the 1LE
Udderly outstanding-
It has changed everyone perception of what a Camaro should be able to do to a point where people refer to my car as a "Porscharo"
On another note,
I got mine from a gentleman new a few years ago out of the Twin Cities, not PA where Steve's listed to be from.
Also there's no hyphen where I got mine from-just wondering if he bought the company out or you bought the rights.
I just ran out at 3:30 in the morn to snap some pics
Udderly outstanding-
It has changed everyone perception of what a Camaro should be able to do to a point where people refer to my car as a "Porscharo"
On another note,
I got mine from a gentleman new a few years ago out of the Twin Cities, not PA where Steve's listed to be from.
Also there's no hyphen where I got mine from-just wondering if he bought the company out or you bought the rights.
I just ran out at 3:30 in the morn to snap some pics
Last edited by abot316; 07-14-2005 at 03:33 AM.
07-14-2005, 04:04 AM
#52
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WEll, I just ordered the Speed specialty c5 conversion brackets for $289....
Ill save around 200 bucks and have nice sweet looking zo6 calipers on my ride.....
Ordering the rest of the package in a week or 2.
BTW, does it seem weird to you guys that corvette calipers are 86 dollars a piece?
Or the corvette rotors being 18 dollars???
I dont think pep boys could **** in a box and sell me these at this price?
Not compalinin though...
Ill save around 200 bucks and have nice sweet looking zo6 calipers on my ride.....
Ordering the rest of the package in a week or 2.
BTW, does it seem weird to you guys that corvette calipers are 86 dollars a piece?
Or the corvette rotors being 18 dollars???
I dont think pep boys could **** in a box and sell me these at this price?
Not compalinin though...
07-14-2005, 07:03 AM
#53
Originally Posted by abot316
I have a Prospeed brake kit 996 under the 1LE
I got mine from a gentleman new a few years ago out of the Twin Cities
I got mine from a gentleman new a few years ago out of the Twin Cities
Michael left a wake of cashed checks and unfilled orders.
07-14-2005, 07:36 AM
#54
Chicane,
Thank you for the tremendous write-up for the non engineer. Great!!
Regards
Steve
Thank you for the tremendous write-up for the non engineer. Great!!
Regards
Steve
Originally Posted by chicane
It stands for Finite Element Analysis. FEA consists of a computer model of a material or design that is stressed and analyzed for specific results. It is used in new product design, and existing product refinement. ....
They are being done in their 'new' facility in Phoenix.
They are being done in their 'new' facility in Phoenix.
07-14-2005, 07:49 AM
#55
Hello abot316,
You're absolutely right about the names. You purchased your set from the originator, Prospeed Motorsports. I purchased the rights to the kit and am now selling the same setup under my company name Pro-Stop Performance, LLC. It is the same bracket design and mounting hardware. It uses the same 996TT OE calipers and rotors as you have from your original kit.
I have upgraded the kit to include the availability of a two piece rotor. Pure race equipment. Alum hat and cast iron rotor ring. You can see the two piece rotor as part of the kit being installed in Kevin/Trackbird's website and write up.
I allow anyone to spec your two piece rotor to your needs. Its your option to obtain solid or floating mount. Slotting, drilled, stress relieved/heat treated, balanced or anodized hat. It is a custom setup and unfortunately priced accordingly. It is specifically designed for race use but can be used on a street & track car as well.
Why did I do it? I race and determined the OE rotors were absolute boat anchors. My custom two piece rotors save approx 14 pounds per pair of unsprung weight and rotating mass. It allows for better handling and better braking.
Brake deeper!!!
Regards
Steve
You're absolutely right about the names. You purchased your set from the originator, Prospeed Motorsports. I purchased the rights to the kit and am now selling the same setup under my company name Pro-Stop Performance, LLC. It is the same bracket design and mounting hardware. It uses the same 996TT OE calipers and rotors as you have from your original kit.
I have upgraded the kit to include the availability of a two piece rotor. Pure race equipment. Alum hat and cast iron rotor ring. You can see the two piece rotor as part of the kit being installed in Kevin/Trackbird's website and write up.
I allow anyone to spec your two piece rotor to your needs. Its your option to obtain solid or floating mount. Slotting, drilled, stress relieved/heat treated, balanced or anodized hat. It is a custom setup and unfortunately priced accordingly. It is specifically designed for race use but can be used on a street & track car as well.
Why did I do it? I race and determined the OE rotors were absolute boat anchors. My custom two piece rotors save approx 14 pounds per pair of unsprung weight and rotating mass. It allows for better handling and better braking.
Brake deeper!!!
Regards
Steve
Originally Posted by abot316
I have a Prospeed brake kit 996 under the 1LE
Udderly outstanding-
It has changed everyone perception of what a Camaro should be able to do to a point where people refer to my car as a "Porscharo"
On another note,
I got mine from a gentleman new a few years ago out of the Twin Cities, not PA where Steve's listed to be from.
Also there's no hyphen where I got mine from-just wondering if he bought the company out or you bought the rights.
I just ran out at 3:30 in the morn to snap some pics
Udderly outstanding-
It has changed everyone perception of what a Camaro should be able to do to a point where people refer to my car as a "Porscharo"
On another note,
I got mine from a gentleman new a few years ago out of the Twin Cities, not PA where Steve's listed to be from.
Also there's no hyphen where I got mine from-just wondering if he bought the company out or you bought the rights.
I just ran out at 3:30 in the morn to snap some pics
07-14-2005, 12:47 PM
#57
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Anybody know anything about the Stainless Steel Brake Corp 3-piston kit? I talked to one of their guys during Power Tour and they recommended it over the 4-piston kit. I also understand that it is based on the Corvette caliper and uses Corvette pads.
07-14-2005, 02:18 PM
#58
Its my understanding Sam Strano carries these brakes. Give him a call to discuss the specifics.
Regards
Steve
Pro-Stop Performance, LLC
Regards
Steve
Pro-Stop Performance, LLC
Originally Posted by b55baron
Anybody know anything about the Stainless Steel Brake Corp 3-piston kit? I talked to one of their guys during Power Tour and they recommended it over the 4-piston kit. I also understand that it is based on the Corvette caliper and uses Corvette pads.
07-14-2005, 03:37 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by TAwananbe
BTW, does it seem weird to you guys that corvette calipers are 86 dollars a piece?
Or the corvette rotors being 18 dollars???
I dont think pep boys could **** in a box and sell me these at this price?
Not compalinin though...
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????
07-14-2005, 03:39 PM
#60
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Ok, so quick question. What's the difference between a traditional lug mount and a radial mount caliper? Looking @ wilwood's site, I can't figure it out.