I wanna get rid of my abs module. I know billingsley sells the delete block. Does that have like a built in proportioning valve or something? I was thinking about either that, or the SJM kit w/ linelock. But w/ the sjm kit, it says you need to modify the factory brake lines? What does "modiying" consist of? I would like to keep it as simple as possible.

Thanks in advance!

 

Nope, with the Billingsley unit you will need to add a proportioning valve. Wilwood has a nice one.

The modifying they are talking about is probably cutting the ends off the lines to convert them to SAE flare. You might as well get a flaring tool because you will be doing that no mater how you go about this. You can use some metric bubble to SAE adapters as well.

Let me ask you this: Why do you want to eliminate the ABS? It has its faults, but it's better to fix the problems than eliminate it IMO.

 

Cal is correct regarding the lines. Our kits do include the wilwood pro-valve. All lines are pre-formed. You do have to cut your stock lines...unless we supplied full lines leading to the calipers; there is no way around it. Our kits can include a modified flaring tool if you need one. Our kit enables the user to completely remove the entire ABS modulator as well as the bracket which is quite heavy.

The kits come in a variety of styles ranging price ranging from 139-199.99 depending on your needs.

I have to respectfully disagree with cal regarding ABS and its usefulness. Though great for the general cars on the road, for what most folks do with our F-bodies, they seem to be more troublesome then they are worth. Don't get me wrong, ABS can be beneficial in some circumstances. Removing ABS can be a nice modification from loosing a decent amount of weight, adding additional space which promotes air flow... to even saving ~200.00 from purchasing a rear-end without ABS. ABS can complain quite a bit on the drag track and RR track especially with using different diameter tires.

Normal driving is not affected at all with the removal of ABS. ABS is only active during specific circumstances. If you have never felt pulsing in your brake pedal, then you’ve never used ABS before. If you removed, you’d never know it wasn’t there.

Since the stock valving is proportioned for a stock setup, by changing the rotor/caliper and tire setup, the bias more then likely will be off with no way to adjust it…one reason why it complains more. Changing to an adjustable valve, you can increase the efficiency of your braking system.

If anyone has additional questions or concerns regarding our kits, feel free to call or e-mail me directly and I will try to answer any questions.

Happy Motoring!

Steve

 

I just installed Steves kit. The kit is quality and very simple to install. I opted to leave the braided part of my brake lines just to make the install alittle easier.

 

Steve10, I will be calling you guys shortly for an order. I know how to double flare, but I really don't want to do any cutting to the stock lines. Do you think you could send me a pm w/ the price for the parts needed to run it to the caliper? I would appreciate it. Thanks for all of the help!

 

GM. Nice picture. The engine bay looks much cleaner without the ABS and bracket.

99. Please e-mail or call us. We do not have PM's turned on as they are more difficult for us to follow. I wouldn't advise replacing the complete lines. Your considering quite a big job as well as ~25 feet of line that you'd be replacing and having to bend. We could not form the lines and then ship them due to the overall box size that would be necessary. It would turn a rather simple install into an in-depth fabrication project.

GM decided as per the directions to install the lines after the braided lines. On an LS1, it definitely makes it an easier install. The 4 pre-formed lines included offer the installer to either install them similar to the picture or connecting the t-fittings back against the frame rail which hides the fittings.

 

If all you do is drag racing, you may get by without the ABS system. If you road race or autoX and ever lock up the tires even once without ABS, an expensive pair of race tires will be toast, flat-sidded to the belts. (ask me how I know) If you ever drive the car in slippery conditions, like rain or snow, the car is safer with ABS. My car has been on an agressive weight loss program lately, but the ABS system is one thing that I believe is well worth it's weight. If you want to remove it, that's your decision. I just want you to have all the facts before you make that decision.

If you feel you must remove the ABS, at least install a brake proportioning valve and adjust it so the front tires lock up just slightly before the rear tires do. Be warned that LS1 cars do not have a brake proportioning valve; this function is performed by the ABS. So when you remove the ABS, you are losing this important function as well.

 

Steve, will this kit work for the lt1's as well?

 

Cal, we do have a few varying opinions here, but all is in good discussion. I certainly dont want to turn the thread into a debate. I have much respect for your help you've provided on the boards.. Folks can read and decipher what they wish.

The proportioning is built into the modulating unit, the bias is pre-set. It is not called a proportioning valve but it is biased. Without it, the car would lock the rears up very easily and not brake evenly on normal braking conditions. ABS would be activated quite often if this was the case. This is both for LS1 and LT1 cars. Throughout the years, there have been various techniques and components used in vehicles, but they all work similar.

The ABS portion is controlled via VR (variable reluctance) sensor which reads signal generated from the reluctor gears changing its magnetic field. These pulses or waves are read by the EBCM. The only time ABS is ever activated is when the computer senses a delta change in readings from the sensor and energizes a solenoid which pulses very quickly to which lowers pressure to the circuit that is "off-sync". There are typically three to four circuits in vehicles albeit 3 channel or 4 channel.

If ABS modulating unit is removed, you most certainly change your brake bias, not because of the ABS motors being removed, but by the valving components.

I do agree with you regarding ABS can lead to a more controlled stop in the rain or snow. I suppose I am blanketing my statments which may not be a good thing...all in all though, I'd say 75% of the folks don't drive a camaro in the snow...the car it one of the worst cars to do so...i'm in the eastern states, i've tried. You can't get car to move, let alone stop. In rainy conditions, once again, I certainly wouldn't call it a very good car. To me and probably many guys on here, it is a hell of a good low-cost performance car which high-horsepower capabilities. I'm sure most didn't purchase it for the ABS functionability as they may have for their family car.

During RR applications, relying on a computer to sensing braking conditions does not work too well. If your corning, and the tires are slipping during a turn (sliding outwards), the EBCM reacts when you apply your brakes and can't deciper how to correctly react on that type of situation. I have also seen it act up when it shouldn't have due to the extreme conditions seen at the RR track. ABS would be a standard in RR applications if it worked. The function of ABS it to give the user a "more controlled" stop and do it in a shorter distance. In any test that is run, if you go from 100-0 in a straight line, a car with ABS will stop shorter then without it. But in many RR and drag race situations, as mentioned, it is a hinderance to performance, not a help.

I certainly am not trying to tell everyone to remove ABS. If it works, and you don't care to loose weight or mind spending a few hundred extra for a rear end equiped with ABS, then by all means, keep it.

For the rest of the folks whom want to loose weight, need the space for other components (our car needed the space for tubing and larger superchager) or not want the expense with no racing benifits then removing the ABS system is something to consider.

My point regarding removing ABS is if you replace the system with a proportioning valve, your braking ability is not decreased under any type of normal driving. It can decrease many problems seen from different tire combonations and RR and DR applications.

Steve

PS, outdooricon, we have kits that are both specific for LT1 and LS1 applications.

 

Steve, I appreciate the kudos, and I'm really not trying to debate this subject either, just make sure people know what they are doing when they pull the ABS system.

I said the brake proporitiong function is performed by the ABS because that is a simplistic way of looking at it that more people will understand.

As far as road racing with ABS (this is the handling section) it is not perfect, but is better than racing without it. Right on the Hoosier tire site, they strongly recomend using ABS with their A3S04 autoX tires, since they are easily flat-sided. I've seen Goodyear race slicks get flat sided in very short order also, on a Mustang without ABS.

It is true that the factory ABS system will contribute to rear-wheel brake hop, but it will never allow the tires to lock up, unless it goes "off line," which it will do if you allow brake hop to get out of hand. I've had good results running an adjustable proportioning valve up stream from the factory ABS to address these issues.

To anyone that is planning on removing it, you might want to try running with just the ABS fuse pulled for a while to see what it is like, before you actually rip the whole system out, although it would be better to do so with an actual brake proportioning valve installed first. That isn't so bad, since you will need one anyway. The weight of the ABS system is listed in the drag race section as 9 lbs.; you decide if it's worth it to remove it.

 

Cal,

Good post once again...:-).

I think the weights of the LS1 !ABS listing may not include the bracket and wiring.

I do not have both here to verify...the last time it was weighed it came in near 14 lbs w/wiring. I know the LT1 components are heavier but I don't believe they are too much different. The LT1 bracket and modulator alone comes in at ~15lbs.

Have a good evening guys. Off to bed.

Steve