Traction and Turns
Traction and Turns Hello, I'm not new to the board, but has been about a year since I've posted.
The mod frenzy has touched me again and I have a different goal this time. I want my car to handle as well or slightly better than a 2000 Firehawk I test drove as well as getting ample traction (which I havent had for a looooong time). I've been testing some other cars such as the GTO, CTS-v, and C5 corvettes and cannot get that feeling of flatness or control in turns in my car as I can in those. Of all of those, the firehawk obviously is a more similar car and I do believe it had the optional handling package.
You can already see my mods in my sig. My car had the 16 inch wheels stock and is not 1le. I've gotten so many different recommendations on things to do such as PHB and torque arm, but I've seen in the other post "First Suspension Mod" that shocks sound much more viable for what I'm looking for.
Without breaking the bank, how can I get my TA to feel like a proper handling sports car? What is the biggest bang for the buck if I only change one or two things?
The mod frenzy has touched me again and I have a different goal this time. I want my car to handle as well or slightly better than a 2000 Firehawk I test drove as well as getting ample traction (which I havent had for a looooong time). I've been testing some other cars such as the GTO, CTS-v, and C5 corvettes and cannot get that feeling of flatness or control in turns in my car as I can in those. Of all of those, the firehawk obviously is a more similar car and I do believe it had the optional handling package.
You can already see my mods in my sig. My car had the 16 inch wheels stock and is not 1le. I've gotten so many different recommendations on things to do such as PHB and torque arm, but I've seen in the other post "First Suspension Mod" that shocks sound much more viable for what I'm looking for.
Without breaking the bank, how can I get my TA to feel like a proper handling sports car? What is the biggest bang for the buck if I only change one or two things?
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From: Houston
How much do you want to spend?
Like mutchntx said – tires will help a lot. My 275 eagle F1’s were a joke even when the car was bone stock. Look into some Nitto’s or something with a softer compound.
As far as feeling ‘flatness’ and ‘control’ – you are going to need new shocks and springs to dial in the feel you are looking for. Also sub frame connectors will help a lot with this.
It all depends on how much you are looking to spend for that feeling of control and firm grip.
Like mutchntx said – tires will help a lot. My 275 eagle F1’s were a joke even when the car was bone stock. Look into some Nitto’s or something with a softer compound.
As far as feeling ‘flatness’ and ‘control’ – you are going to need new shocks and springs to dial in the feel you are looking for. Also sub frame connectors will help a lot with this.
It all depends on how much you are looking to spend for that feeling of control and firm grip.
An alignment will certainly help the grip. But those other cars don't have performance alignments from the factory either. So that's not the big deal.
Shocks would go the longest way to helping you. Springs don't hurt, but swaybars are MUCH more effective in taming body roll and have the side benefit of not screwing up your ride. As a matter of fact, better shocks with stock springs and bigger bars (appropriate ones, not just any bars) will net you a car that is better in every respect. Less impact harshness. No more float and bobbing, much less roll, quicker response, etc.
Shocks would go the longest way to helping you. Springs don't hurt, but swaybars are MUCH more effective in taming body roll and have the side benefit of not screwing up your ride. As a matter of fact, better shocks with stock springs and bigger bars (appropriate ones, not just any bars) will net you a car that is better in every respect. Less impact harshness. No more float and bobbing, much less roll, quicker response, etc.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
I addressed "bang for the buck" ...
Shocks will certainly improve handling, no doubt.
Dialing in more camber, more caster and a little toe out helps a ton ... especially for $39.95 and no sweat.
Shocks will certainly improve handling, no doubt.
Dialing in more camber, more caster and a little toe out helps a ton ... especially for $39.95 and no sweat.
It's funny, I've never considered that an alignment would improve my handling by any significant amount. With such a low risk (cost) I'd definately be willing to give that a shot. Could you post some specs that I should stick with so I can show my mechanic?
Tires will come when these wear out. Initially, I was thinking of doing Nitto Drag Radials in the rear and keeping Fuzions in the front. What would yall recommend that won't break the bank when it comes time and will also perform decently?
Also, the answer made by Sam was very helpful. It's nice to know I don't have to go through the job of lowering my car to improve my handling (as I barely make it without scraping up the bottom of my car in the first place). Which brand shocks and which brand swaybars would you recommend for a budget car? (again, bang for buck...I don't want "cheap" I want inexpensive - I'm not getting 2-way adjustable Konis mainly because I do not have a really good reason to. I'm a street car who drags maybe once a month and likes to take turns a little quick and FEEL the road.)
You guys hit the target dead center "No more float and bobbing, much less roll, quicker response, etc." <----That is what I want. Oh, and traction too
Tires will come when these wear out. Initially, I was thinking of doing Nitto Drag Radials in the rear and keeping Fuzions in the front. What would yall recommend that won't break the bank when it comes time and will also perform decently?
Also, the answer made by Sam was very helpful. It's nice to know I don't have to go through the job of lowering my car to improve my handling (as I barely make it without scraping up the bottom of my car in the first place). Which brand shocks and which brand swaybars would you recommend for a budget car? (again, bang for buck...I don't want "cheap" I want inexpensive - I'm not getting 2-way adjustable Konis mainly because I do not have a really good reason to. I'm a street car who drags maybe once a month and likes to take turns a little quick and FEEL the road.)
You guys hit the target dead center "No more float and bobbing, much less roll, quicker response, etc." <----That is what I want. Oh, and traction too
Last edited by Malko; Aug 25, 2005 at 05:14 PM. Reason: added content
Shocks definatly make the most difference, but aren't cheap. You don't need dual adjustable Koni's; you can get single adjustables for about half the cost. Save even more by putting Koni's on the front and Bilsteins on the rear.
You really need to call Sam at Strano Parts. He's good at building a no BS car for minimum bucks. He also has some great light-weight sway bars that are about as stiff as you would ever need, and priced right.
As for alignment, you want to max out the camber adjustment for negative camber, and get all the caster you can get without it reducing the neg camber. You could go with a little toe out, but not much; maybe 1/16 total. That depends on how stiff your tire sidewalls are.
Consider lowering the car just one inch. It will allow you to get more negative camber on your front wheel alignment.
You really need to call Sam at Strano Parts. He's good at building a no BS car for minimum bucks. He also has some great light-weight sway bars that are about as stiff as you would ever need, and priced right.
As for alignment, you want to max out the camber adjustment for negative camber, and get all the caster you can get without it reducing the neg camber. You could go with a little toe out, but not much; maybe 1/16 total. That depends on how stiff your tire sidewalls are.
Consider lowering the car just one inch. It will allow you to get more negative camber on your front wheel alignment.
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Originally Posted by Malko
It's funny, I've never considered that an alignment would improve my handling by any significant amount.
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Verdad Gallardo 12 Second Club
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Houston
Malko – If you wanted a very clean setup to dramatically improve handling without losing any ride height, I would recommend the following.
Ground Control Coil-Overs with higher rate springs
Bilstein Re-Valved shocks from Strano or adjustables
Adjustable pan hard bar
Sway bar from Strano
This will give you a super flat/tight ride that has full height adjustability. With the coil-overs you can run anywhere from stock height to absolutely slammed.
This will cost you a few bucks though – but well worth it if you have the money.
Just my .02
Good luck!
Jeremy
Ground Control Coil-Overs with higher rate springs
Bilstein Re-Valved shocks from Strano or adjustables
Adjustable pan hard bar
Sway bar from Strano
This will give you a super flat/tight ride that has full height adjustability. With the coil-overs you can run anywhere from stock height to absolutely slammed.
This will cost you a few bucks though – but well worth it if you have the money.
Just my .02
Good luck!
Jeremy
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Is the neg camber just to offset the tire roll (from lateral forces), or is the suspension geometry acutally changing through the turn? If the latter, then wouldn't it be better to brace the chassis up front more to lock everything in and prevent this (to say nothing of metal fatigue)?
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From: Columbus, OH
Both. The geometry actually changes as we have unequal length A-arms for the front suspension. The shorter upper arm causes more negative camber to be introduced as the suspension compresses. However, body roll pushes the top out, reducing negative camber. That's why sway bars are so important on these cars. If body roll is controlled, you can help prevent as much negative camber loss as you can.
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I was referring to the placement of all the pieces relative to one another, ie - chassis flex. IOW - the brackets that the control arms bolt into, do their relative positions change (something that could only happen if the chassis is twisting)?
Why would body roll reduce negative camber? Wouldn't it, in effect, just be more suspension compression?
Why would body roll reduce negative camber? Wouldn't it, in effect, just be more suspension compression?
Both. But it's becaue the upper a-arms are bolted to the tops of the towers, and when the car rolls the towers tilt out and a loss of camber results. It's not because the towers are flexing. Which is why a lot of use don't have STB's, because they don't work on this car like an old 3rd gen or Mustang with actual struts.
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
I did the alignment and I was quite surprised at the difference. I was actually going 5mph or more faster in some turns that I usualy take a bit fast. I do now know the limits of my car though. I now know exactly where it will break and how it handles dips and other things in the road. Now shocks are quickly becoming the top contender on the list of things to do.