C5 Brake System Failure - Flexible Hose Rupture (also posted in Corvette specific)
09-07-2005, 05:58 PM
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C5 Brake System Failure - Flexible Hose Rupture (also posted in Corvette specific) After 5+ years in the dark, I have finally seen the light. I hope I can offer as much Corvette/LS1 knowledge as I hope to gain on this great forum.
The impetus for my recent registration is the topic for this thread. As I write, my 2000 C5 6spd hardtop (pre-Z06) is at the body shop getting a new front fascia, hood, and passenger-side headlight cover. The damage was caused by a low-speed impact between the Corvette's front end and the rear bumper of a 2002 Ford F150. The impact occurred during a panic stop by the F150 and myself after just beginning to accelerate from a green light.
As I saw him stop, I put the clutch to the floor and full force on the brake pedal with complete confidence that the Corvette's braking capabilities would prevent an accident. I was confident because these same wonderful brakes have saved me before. This time, however, I felt a pop under my foot and the brake pedal went straight to the floor. Before I could accept the reality that I had lost brake pressure and use the clutch or e-brake to slow the car, the front end had engaged the Ford's rear bumper. Luckily, the speeds were no more than 10-20mph throughout the entire event, the damage to either vehicle was relatively minor, and nobody was injured.
At home, I took many pictures and some video of the brake failure. The flexible hose that failed is one of two on the driver's side of the engine, along the frame rail, connecting the hard steel brakes lines from the master cylinder to those of the ABS controller.
At this point, you might be asking, "how many miles on that car?" ... just less than 36k. The real question to ask is, "does mileage really matter?" because this is not a "wear" item like rotors, calipers, clutch, etc. Plus, this is a safety related item much like the air bags and seat belts.
The objective for this post was simply to ask if anyone, not just Corvette owners, has even heard of a vehicle, not just the C5, that has ever ruptured a brake hose. I have to clarify that I do refer to relatively new vehicles, not a 1950 work truck that has been rotting out in a field for the past few decades.
Finally, I am open to suggestions on how to proceed following a component failure such as this - notify NHTSA, march up to GM headquarters and demand a new 2006 Z06 for compensation, drive the C5 off a cliff and go buy a Subaru Impreza WRX STI, etc. All joking aside, I'm just glad the brake failure didn't happen at highway speeds, total the car, and severely hurt myself or anyone else.
The impetus for my recent registration is the topic for this thread. As I write, my 2000 C5 6spd hardtop (pre-Z06) is at the body shop getting a new front fascia, hood, and passenger-side headlight cover. The damage was caused by a low-speed impact between the Corvette's front end and the rear bumper of a 2002 Ford F150. The impact occurred during a panic stop by the F150 and myself after just beginning to accelerate from a green light.
As I saw him stop, I put the clutch to the floor and full force on the brake pedal with complete confidence that the Corvette's braking capabilities would prevent an accident. I was confident because these same wonderful brakes have saved me before. This time, however, I felt a pop under my foot and the brake pedal went straight to the floor. Before I could accept the reality that I had lost brake pressure and use the clutch or e-brake to slow the car, the front end had engaged the Ford's rear bumper. Luckily, the speeds were no more than 10-20mph throughout the entire event, the damage to either vehicle was relatively minor, and nobody was injured.
At home, I took many pictures and some video of the brake failure. The flexible hose that failed is one of two on the driver's side of the engine, along the frame rail, connecting the hard steel brakes lines from the master cylinder to those of the ABS controller.
At this point, you might be asking, "how many miles on that car?" ... just less than 36k. The real question to ask is, "does mileage really matter?" because this is not a "wear" item like rotors, calipers, clutch, etc. Plus, this is a safety related item much like the air bags and seat belts.
The objective for this post was simply to ask if anyone, not just Corvette owners, has even heard of a vehicle, not just the C5, that has ever ruptured a brake hose. I have to clarify that I do refer to relatively new vehicles, not a 1950 work truck that has been rotting out in a field for the past few decades.
Finally, I am open to suggestions on how to proceed following a component failure such as this - notify NHTSA, march up to GM headquarters and demand a new 2006 Z06 for compensation, drive the C5 off a cliff and go buy a Subaru Impreza WRX STI, etc. All joking aside, I'm just glad the brake failure didn't happen at highway speeds, total the car, and severely hurt myself or anyone else.
09-07-2005, 06:09 PM
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Sounds like just a freak occurance, never heard of anything like that on a newer vehicle. Sorry to hear about your car man, atleast its repairable. I would think since this IS a major safety concern(on a flagship vehicle no less) GM would cover something, or atleast take interest in how/why this went down.
09-07-2005, 10:28 PM
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Good question.
On 6-26-2005, at 32k miles, I bled the system using a full can of:
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=51
The product claims it is compatible with and exceeds the requirements for both DOT 3 and 4 applications. The failure occurred nearly 2 months and 4k miles later.
Has anyone else used the same fluid?
This might be a coincidence but it is possible the fluid is not compatible with the type of hoses GM uses.
On 6-26-2005, at 32k miles, I bled the system using a full can of:
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=51
The product claims it is compatible with and exceeds the requirements for both DOT 3 and 4 applications. The failure occurred nearly 2 months and 4k miles later.
Has anyone else used the same fluid?
This might be a coincidence but it is possible the fluid is not compatible with the type of hoses GM uses.
09-08-2005, 06:46 AM
#6
I have used and know folks who use Valvoline SynPower brake fluid. The link you provide has the packaging different than the fluids I've used, but that doesn't really mean anything.
According to the site you referenced, it is a DOT 3/4 compatible synthetic.
I would do a couple things ....
Your brake system is now breeched so removing the other flex brake lines won't matter. Inspect them all and look for swollen hoses and seals around the caliper pistons.
Capture the fluids that drain and see if there are tiny flakes in the fluid. The fluid, what's left of it, should be almost pristine, since it's only a couple months old.
If you see any signs of deterioration, I would say that the fluid was, in fact, not compatible.
If everything looks as it should, I would chalk it up to coincidence and report it to NHTSA ... www.nhtsa.dot.gov Save all the parts and take lots of pictures.
Might be nothing ... might be something.
Good luck and hope everything works out for you.
According to the site you referenced, it is a DOT 3/4 compatible synthetic.
I would do a couple things ....
Your brake system is now breeched so removing the other flex brake lines won't matter. Inspect them all and look for swollen hoses and seals around the caliper pistons.
Capture the fluids that drain and see if there are tiny flakes in the fluid. The fluid, what's left of it, should be almost pristine, since it's only a couple months old.
If you see any signs of deterioration, I would say that the fluid was, in fact, not compatible.
If everything looks as it should, I would chalk it up to coincidence and report it to NHTSA ... www.nhtsa.dot.gov Save all the parts and take lots of pictures.
Might be nothing ... might be something.
Good luck and hope everything works out for you.
09-08-2005, 09:20 AM
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I had a brake hose brake on me before. It was in my '77 Oldsmobile 442. I know the car is old but the hose wasn't. I had redone the brakes a short time before and replaced the hoses because the old ones would leak. Sometimes things like that happen. Just think of it this way, When a radiator hos starts leaking or busts you don't think of it as something GM needs to fix you just look at it as something that happened and needs to be fixed. They are just rubber. I'm glad to hear you are ok and noone was hurt.
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09-13-2005, 12:22 PM
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Latest news -
The Chevrolet dealership fixed the brake system as part of the insurance claim and believes the failure was caused by the hose rubbing against the frame rail. Now, the hoses are mounted with a gap. However, we will never know the truth since the original hose was accidentally thrown in the trash.
Aren't most brake lines routed along frame rails? Hmmm.
All I can say is this is not over. I plan on working through the dealership to get in contact with GM directly. The dealership clearly is not concerned.
I do recommend that you fellow C5 (and probably C6, too) owners check your flexible hoses just in case their rubbing theory is true.
The Chevrolet dealership fixed the brake system as part of the insurance claim and believes the failure was caused by the hose rubbing against the frame rail. Now, the hoses are mounted with a gap. However, we will never know the truth since the original hose was accidentally thrown in the trash.
Aren't most brake lines routed along frame rails? Hmmm.
All I can say is this is not over. I plan on working through the dealership to get in contact with GM directly. The dealership clearly is not concerned.
I do recommend that you fellow C5 (and probably C6, too) owners check your flexible hoses just in case their rubbing theory is true.
