GreekGator

I know these are necessary for lowered cars. Is a PHB still have an impact on non-lowered cars? also, what else does a panhard bar do?TIA

OldeSkool

Panhard bars are necessary for all 3rd and 4th gen f-bodies with 3 link suspensions... they keep the axle from "sliding" out from under the car whenever you turn.. Your options are to keep the one you got. upgrade to a stiffer one for better cornering or an adjustable one to be able to center the axle under the car (for lowered vehicles as the lowering pushes one side out a little). Rod ended (stiffest) bars are adjustable no matter what. Poly bars are either fixed or adjustable.

Panhard bars are good. Z-link/ watts link setups are better but require fabrication and really arent worth it (most people say)

GreekGator

What are some good brands to look at??

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Getting rid of the slop of the factory bushings in the PHR and going to rod ends is going to directly effect the way the car responds to input. It basically makes the rear suspension feel more nimble and light which is a good thing. I wouldn't waste my money on a poly unit.

One of the cheapest that uses high quality rod ends is from Unbalanced Engineering for $150. A lot of our sponsors sell them for a bit more. The LG, UMI and Spohn units all use high quality rod ends are are good units.

GreekGator

Jason, which brand would YOU go with??

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I'd trust any of the 4 I mentioned above.

I just ordered a rod ended PHR from a little known company, to me at least. It uses a aluminum tube and uses the FK Bearing, model number JM12T. It's a JM series regular strength 3 piece in 3/4" with the PTFE teflon liner.

It's only $95 + shipping. Those rod ends aren't well know to most folks here, but they look pretty good spec wise and since the PHR isn't under a lot of load (time wise), they should last a good long time. When the time comes to replace them, I'll get some chromoly QA1 Edura 2000's which are well known, for about $30 a piece.

PM me if you want the details, they are not a sponsor.

You can also make your own. check this thread.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/381705-umi-lcas-phr-adjustable-no.html

BADZ

iTrader: (5)

rod/rod double adj is the best way to go, there are alot of really good pieces out there but make sure you have a teflon lined quality rod end...

pimpmaro

I run a trackbird piece. I've seen all the designs and I run his for a reason. That's not to knock any of the other designs, but that's my preference.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I think Trackbirds are exactly like the ones I mentioned above about making them yourself. Correct me if I'm wrong.

GreekGator

Pimpmaro, could u explain Trackbirds a little bit in detail and why you prefer it over the other brands? Thanks

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Here's his page.
http://home.columbus.rr.com/trackbirdz28/projects.htm

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

The panhard bar is under a LOT of load. It is the *only* thing that locates the axle in the car laterally. And it's long, so you are looking for the strongest actual bar you can get along with the good rod-ends if you are looking at a rod-ended unit.

We have PHB's made for us by Addco, the same folks that make our swaybars. The top of the line PHB is Chrome-Moly and not aluminum. Why? Simply put aluminum is weaker, and we've seen them bend. The 1 pound or so it saves is just not worth the trouble. We also carry a mild steel piece as well. We use the QA1 XM series rod-ends in our bars, these are the big teflon lined ends that are extremely durable and quiet. Quite unlike the cheap $5 ends that are commonly used and rattle all the time.

A rod-ended steel PHB is $159, the Chrome-Moly version is $169. Compare that Chrome-Moly price to others with high quality ends and I'm sure you'll find the price pretty good. Of course, being rod-ended, they are adjustable too....

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I guess I should clarify when I said the PHR wasn't under a lot of load. I meant time wise. In cornering they are under a tremendous load, but the average guy is only cornering maybe 2 or 3 percent of his time driving. That is one of the reasons they should last longer than the rod ends on the LCA's. That's what I meant. You definetely need to have a beefing PHR especially if you race or use sticky tires.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I'd disagree with that. Try putting the car on jackstands (with the stands under the axle), then pull the PHB off and just gently push on the body of the car. It moves all over the place. When driving the PHB is always at work. It's never *not* working, just working a lot harder when the cornering loads are higher.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Jeez, there's just no pleasing you, huh?
My whole point was that rod ends make a lot more sense on the PHR as they won't transfer noise, effect the ride and will last a lot longer compared to them on the LCA's. Can we at least agree on that? If not, please explain.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I can agree with that. There is pleasing me, but it takes a well thought out argument that has had all the details looked at. That rarely happens.

The PHB is under a lot of load, and is under load at all times. Nothing I said there was wrong or attacking. Simply the case....

BADZ

iTrader: (5)

We have sold over 1000+ phr's and lca's (Alum t6061) and never once have we had any bending issues or breaking issues but they are solid not tubular and are machined in our own 25000 sqf. machine shop...

DarknessC5

iTrader: (1)

Are Adjustable PHBs absolutely necessary when lowering the car?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Depends on what absolutely means to you. Can you drop a car without an adjustable bar? Yes. Will the axle not be centered in the chassis? Yes. Will it be way off? Depends on how much you lower it and how far out it was stock. Are there cars running around without one? Sure. Does that make it ok? No. But there are a lot of half-assed ideas out there that get used....

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I would say no. Here's how it works in actual practice. If you are running a skinny tire like a 275, there is usually enough gap on either side of the tire to prevent rubbing. Now sometimes the factory tolerances might have one tire a little closer to the inside fender well than the other. In that case, combined with a certain amount of lowering, you may get a tire rubbing. Usually a 275 will be OK and even if it does rub it's no big deal, you may not hear it or even realize it's rubbing. If it turns out it is, just order or make yourself a new adjustable PHR.

Now if you are using a big tire like a 315, you will definetely need an APHR. You may need to hammer in the inner fender wells as well as recenter the rear axle to get the wear patterns the same on both sides, then you hammer the high spots. It's a process of adjusting the bar and hammering. Eventually it won't rub.

The type of bar can make a big difference as well. If you use an adjustable bar with rubber ends, the rear axle will move a lot when cornering and increase the chance of rubbing.

A bar with poly ends may start out fairly tight, but will still allow some movement. Over time the bushings will distort and allow the rear axle to move a lot and they will need to be replaced.

Finally, a rod ended bar will not allow the axle to move hardly at all from side to side, thereby being the best solution to preventing the tires from rubbing. The decreased play also helps the steering response by making the car resond quicker and feel more stable at high speeds.

So if you have 275's and not a lot of money, I would take a wait and see approach (unless you really want to get a new bar anyway). If you have 315's, definetely get a new APHR.