View Poll Results: 2pt Vs 3pt Subframes
2pt
86
38.74%
3pt
136
61.26%
Voters: 222. You may not vote on this poll
Subframe Connectors: 2pt vs 3pt
02-25-2008, 11:04 PM
#83
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have you only picked out your sway bars, or have you installed them? do your shock valvings match their spring rates? If you like to spend money on a placebo mod, go ahead. Most of this "loose feeling" is probably from worn out bushings, end links, and not the monocoque itself. Wornout bushings are notorious for creating lots of squeeks and rattles. Also, have you checked your interior to see if it actually has any loose trim? Bear in mind that when even the slightest error in interior moulding fitting on any vehicle will create wierd noises. Most of the noises on turns are really from worn out suspension components.
Many on this forum always suggest SFC's as a mandatory mod, however, unless you have really stressed out the car a lot (RR, AX, or Drag racing) they're not necessary, and even so, I had my 3-points installed for about 32K from about ~58K to about ~90K, and the only difference that was detected in handling and NVH reduction was from the shocks themselves. Mine is a 1999 Z28 that was previously wrecked on the left front, but was repaired properly and some other f body owners who rode in my vehicle thought I installed SFC's when i didn't have them installed at the time. My vehicle is @ aborut 120K, and it has a little more than a 3rd of it's life from AX and RR practice. It's T-top equipped and has no NVH, except road and tire noise.
Many on this forum always suggest SFC's as a mandatory mod, however, unless you have really stressed out the car a lot (RR, AX, or Drag racing) they're not necessary, and even so, I had my 3-points installed for about 32K from about ~58K to about ~90K, and the only difference that was detected in handling and NVH reduction was from the shocks themselves. Mine is a 1999 Z28 that was previously wrecked on the left front, but was repaired properly and some other f body owners who rode in my vehicle thought I installed SFC's when i didn't have them installed at the time. My vehicle is @ aborut 120K, and it has a little more than a 3rd of it's life from AX and RR practice. It's T-top equipped and has no NVH, except road and tire noise.
. learned somethin
03-01-2008, 01:04 PM
#84
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even though this thread is old i will share my 02. i had a fox body with lots of rattles. i bought cheap ($75) connectors and welded them in. they also bolted to the front seat mounting points (bolts coming through the floor pan) from underneath. i immediately notice no rattles and driving diagonal off inclines or declines the doors didn't shift and creak. now thats 75 dollars well spent. 2 door cars with long heavy doors are prone to premature door bushing failure and excessive play on door hinges. now, when i got my SS, guess what? long heavy doors. i installed UMI boxed 2 point. first impression? less rattles. pulling over inclines, way less chassis shifting then before but not completely eliminated. i completely agree in replacing worn suspension componets and focusing on good shocks/springs. but for the price i think SFC are a must mod. plus being able to jack your car up from anywhere along the side is fantastic, i cringed before jacking one side up and seeing the body flex. now i dont worry. worth every penny.
03-03-2008, 05:02 PM
#85
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I bought my SLPs for the piece of mind and my TA. I have the Spohn adjustable with the relocation crossmember and it ties into the SLPs perfectly. I hate the ground clearance but it works. I feel less jittering in the T-top joints after the SLPs but I am on OEM shocks, springs, sway bars. I'll address those eventually, however, I don't mind a little extra weight (okay, it wasn't a little) to keep the body from twisting and shaking. I planned on building a car to dip into the 10s eventually, so I thought I'd just get these to preserve the chassis. I've seen a cam only car twist the chassis and cause the dog legs on the quarters to pull out of alignment with the doors because it hooked so hard and didn't have SFCs or a roll cage before.
03-06-2008, 11:14 AM
#86
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My SS is a T top car, so I wanted to add something, not sure if I NEEDed to, but it makes me feel better.
I ended up going with the 2 point UMI SFC's. I spent a good while sketching free body diagrams and trying to look at all of the forces that would be put into the chassis. At times you have forces trying to twist the chassis other times they are trying to cut the car in half.
I never found a benefit to the 3 points. For the 3 points to be beneficial in my opinion the third (or middle) points would have to intersect making an X across the chassis otherwise the car is still vulnerable to the opposing forces.
I could be completely off... but it makes sense in my head.
I ended up going with the 2 point UMI SFC's. I spent a good while sketching free body diagrams and trying to look at all of the forces that would be put into the chassis. At times you have forces trying to twist the chassis other times they are trying to cut the car in half.
I never found a benefit to the 3 points. For the 3 points to be beneficial in my opinion the third (or middle) points would have to intersect making an X across the chassis otherwise the car is still vulnerable to the opposing forces.
I could be completely off... but it makes sense in my head.
03-06-2008, 09:16 PM
#88
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As Sam says, not neccesary, but, IMO, a cheap reinforcement- One piece at a time- my checkbook isn't such that I can do all the mods at once- and I want a solid base for all other improvements to follow- prolly shocks, next. I took a 32 mm bar from a wrecked WS6, as well as the larger deCarbon rear shocks and 3.42 rear end. I actually think I need a little more rear bar, it plows pretty good right now, hard to get a good powerslide rotation when I want it- hitting the gas pushes the front-
But, back to the thread- the weight you add is down low, and the 3-points and tunnel brace tie it all together nicely- overkill? Depends how hard you use it, I guess-
But, back to the thread- the weight you add is down low, and the 3-points and tunnel brace tie it all together nicely- overkill? Depends how hard you use it, I guess-
03-19-2008, 11:46 AM
#89
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The simple fact is this... anything that increases structural integrity is a plus.... daily driven or raced...period. Why do so many get on the evil band wagon when discussing an addition that "mechanically" increases strength... then deliberate on whether or not it is a functional part of the suspension structure? If the car dosen't bend or flex... the more the suspension will... and that in turn will show you the short commings of the suspension system it's self. The system will always exploit the weakest point... eliminating these weaknesses will invariably point out the next until your entire car is modded......$100,000 into it and I'm still not done
03-19-2008, 11:48 AM
#90
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2 point is better than "no point", 3 point better than 2 point.... etc... simple mechanical advantage. Is 2 point/3 point sufficientor better than the other? Debateable... but definitely better than no point.
03-19-2008, 12:13 PM
#91
The simple fact is this... anything that increases structural integrity is a plus.... daily driven or raced...period. Why do so many get on the evil band wagon when discussing an addition that "mechanically" increases strength... then deliberate on whether or not it is a functional part of the suspension structure? If the car dosen't bend or flex... the more the suspension will... and that in turn will show you the short commings of the suspension system it's self. The system will always exploit the weakest point... eliminating these weaknesses will invariably point out the next until your entire car is modded......$100,000 into it and I'm still not done
And the point is this. The car will always have some flex. No car, not even a race car is 100% rigid. So where do you draw the line? You have a claimed $100k in your car, so clearly you feel that things are never enough, and that's fine. I'd NEVER put that much money into an f-body. There is no point, you still have a Camaro. You can buy better cars out of the box and impove on those and be money and performance ahead.
At some point you reach a point that you don't need more of anything. I don't have SFC's on my car, and I'm willing to take anyone on with it @ an autox because it flat works, without SFC's. Are they bad to have? No. But they aren't in any way, shape, or form ALWAYS needed, or even always beneficial.
If you have 500 HP and can't get it down, do you need 600? Some will say yes, I say no. If a car doesn't twist itself apart, and doesn't quiver like a tuning fork does it need to be stiffer? Probably not, and fwiw adding things that aren't necessary adds weight. Weight doesn't make the car faster.
To each his own, and I can respect your thinking on this. I'm simply addressing your questioning how or why folks can think that you don't need SFC's in every case.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
