Bo White

iTrader: (59)

I have had 10 Camaros now anywere from 1976 models all the way to my latest one(my 98) and have had SFCs on all of the but one...until now. I am a very firm believer in them because of now 12 personal cars haveing them(had 2 mustangs ). I had a 1981 Camaro that run 8.6s in the 1/8th on street tires everytime I went down the track until SFCs and lift bars - 8.16 in the 1/8th on the same 235/60 Goodyears . Also had a 1989 IROC that had a 5.0 TPI A4 and it would run a 10.08 or a 10.16 in the 1/8th- weird since thats the only #s I got out of it after 2 months of racing lol- bone stock. I know it was blistering fast , I put SFCs on it and it run the next and therefor following times to the track a 9.96 for the SLOWEST pass- no other changes. I then had a B4C 1994 Camaro that ran 9.0s pretty consistently stock and with just SFCs ran a best of 8.89 in the same weather the next weekend and consistently got low 8.9s. The thing I want to get across is its an investment more than a "mod", although my cars consistently run quicker with em. They help the handling greatly and help the car last longer rattle free(and most of the time cure some you already have). Now that I have put them on my '98 Z I will testify again that any unibody car needs these as a first "mod" and will always testify this. I usually do SFCs right off the bat but didnt with this car....and wish I did

Silas2k

iTrader: (5)

im buying the boxed sfcs from umi for myself for x-mas because of all the good things i hear on this site

UMI Performance

iTrader: (77)

Bo White, I completely agree with you. We have seen to many cars through our shop twisted so bad it was tough to even complete the installation. SFC's have a drastic difference as well on the straightness of a vehicles launch at the track, this depends alot on the power it is putting down as well.

Silas2k- Thanks for the business

Regards,
Ryan

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

I have seen great feedback on UMI products and respect companies offering great products with great prices. Im a Comp. Eng. fan from way back since I mostly had 2 gen cars and Comp makes great stuff for em so its hard to change lol. I will say that thats about it that they make for my car so when its time for other suspension parts(which will be soon ) youl be gettin a call

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

Ryan, since ya posted up let me ask ya:
I plan on buying the 201621 rear arm kit ($264.95) and the 230010 front arm kit ($629.99), my question is the torque arms- the 2202 torque arm looks like what Im lookin for but was wondering if it will clear duals like from TSP? Im runnin the factory catback as of now(and possibly from now on) but might run the TSP duals after my engine swap. Thanx in advance

UMI Performance

iTrader: (77)

Bo White- Thanks for the comments, I apprecaite it. Yes Comp. Eng. has been offering SFC's for the 1st and 2nd generation F-Body for as long as I can remember. They will be getting some competition in the up comming months

Item # 201621 is one of our most popular kits and I think you would be very pleased with the performance and results from it. As for the torque arm I am sorry to say that item # 2202 will not clear with the TSP true dual system. If you were to use that system or similar you would need to stick with the transmission mounted style arm. If you wanted to get the torque arm off the transmission we could put you into a torque arm relocation kit but the price then starts getting up there. If you look at the picture below it shows a TSP system installed, you can see were the X runs in the exact place the tunnel mount would be bolted from item # 2202. If I can help anymore please ask and I am glad too.

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

No problem, I will just make my own exhaust system since I done custom exhaust for 5 years . I will continue to make plans to run the #2202 . Thanx for the pic- parts I want are on this car- except the torque arm. Do you offer a Kmember?

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Once again, apples and oranges being compared. In any and all cases, all the generations before 1993 you listed I can agree with. 1993 and up I disagree on the basis of what you're really doing with it. I have had NONE of those problems since I use the vehicle in a different manner. To let you know of what I've done, I have changed the shocks, springs rates, stabiliser bars, aftermarket torque arm and replaced almost all mounts and bushings. While I don't seriously drag race, I have agressively ran AX and RR with the vehicle putting down 401 rwhp/378 rwtq SAE corrected with a T2R rear and some sticky shoes. The vehicle is over 140K, and their SFC's have been off of the vehicle from about 90K for the 3 points. I had welded in 2 points at around 56k, removed them at about 70K, still noticed no difference. 78K, installed boxed 3 points until 90K. No difference in the structure, and I have T-tops. Been running free for about 95K to 140K, and yet to see those anomolies people mention.

May not like the hijack, but that's to demonstrate that SFC's can be useful, just not the first thing needed for every application. If you want to improve handling, go right to the source, the suspension itself. Unless the monocoque is well ragged and/or having to drag race with lots of power, SFC's are mostly placebo mod. 3rd Gen definitely need SFC's, but 4th Gens depend on the circumstances. I could've saved money by not listening to my favourite suspension supplier of the time.

BINGO! Now that's what I'm talking about. Ryan makes some good stuff I will say, and yes, if needed, get his SFC's. Like his testimony, if you understand what, why, and how, then you know why SFC's are needed, especially if you're running a floor mounted TA (hopefully one of his).

Once again, not to hijack, but if you want them, buy them. Personal experience refutes whatever placebo effects exist. The whole "everybody with a 4th gen needs them" and "greatly improves handling and settles all NVH" is largely unsubstantiated.

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

Thanx Foxxton, worded very well. Everyone and anyone can only go by what they have seen for themselves or heard from reliable sources. I am an ASE certified Under Car Specialist and worked as an alignment specialist for 11 years or so and have had 12 cars with SFCs and have installed about another 12 on other cars(I didnt install em on my 98 yesterday because I dont work at a shop anymore so I had a trusted fabricator do it for me). I could tell they were on when I left the shop and hit the on ramp to the interstate but that is me. Some people dont see a benefit for a ported TB but some do and there are great arguements on both sides. I like seeing both sides of the coin and value your post as much as I do others.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

It is interesting that the personal experience and perceptions of knowledgeable and credible enthusiasts can be diametrically opposed regarding SFC's. My experience has been increased NVH, but greater rigidity and less body flex in the twisties. I'll have to wait for spring for the track to tell its tale.

1QuickT-A

iTrader: (12)

I will have to go with Bo on this one.. I have always been able to tell a difference when riding in a car that has SFC's as well as all of my friends..

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

This passage will neglect High speed drag racing since it is already understood that SFC's are very useful with the application, but as far as everyday street handling?

Again, what shocks are you guys using, and what are their respective valvings, and what springs are used? I'm refering to handling and by what you guys are explaining, your testing is very flawed.

You mention that you're an ASE undercar specialist, however, the SFC's have a lot more to do with the chassis itself. l have spent at least 4 years with my alma matter's SAE club, so they are definitely more familiar with chassis design as they have the appropriate resources for testing and development. Several students have exhuastively tested the efficacy of the SFC for F-bodies for their senior projects, and they have come to the conclusions that I have also. Once again, they have a broad amount of resources at their disposal, including some assitance from several master certified ASE techs with the same amount of experience you have Bo. May seem expensive, but the R&D must be exhaustive in order to pass.

Also bear in mind that every month, I frequent my auto body shop that has the equipment for measuring the chassis geometry points, and they have remained unchanged since 30K miles. All service and repair techs have their respective ASE Bx certifications.

BTW, not to flame Bo, but you mention "undercar" specialist, can you be precise about which certifications? I know of them all, since I frequent the ASE website and work very closely with master certified Bx techs, as well as A4 and A5 techs. I also warn you that SFC's are much more specific to the chassis itself, even though I agree that a crooked chassis indeed negatively affects suspension alignment. Did you work at a body shop, because if the alignment isn't able to be corrected after several attempts, then the monocoque must under go the same test as I mentioned in order to verify that all of the chassis points line up and have their correct symmetry, angles, and length measurements.

Not to bug, but the whole "ramp" scenario? what did you mean by a ramp? If you're talking about a freeway ramp, then I need much more evidence than words, because I have accelerated up many steep ramps, took many equivalent high speed sharp turns of several closed road courses and only my suspension geometry has slightly changed, but is easily corrected, since of course I have my chassis checked, and it too aligns perfectly. Once again, SFC's didn't change this.

I give no commands, especially when it comes to business, however I retain the freedom of civil expression of truth when it comes to this area. I believe that two other members, Cal and Sam have at least a similar experience with what I mention as far as handling, however I'll leave it up to them with their choice to chime in or not.

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

Undercar Specialist includes Suspension and Steering, brakes, and exhaust. To get ASE certified in exhaust you must first have the brakes and suspension and steering.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Not to drag this on, but for information purposes only (not for the debate), did you work at a body shop dealing directly with the chassis?

The reason I ask, is because I do consult some other ASE certified undercar specialists (A4, A5, X1 as well, but at a body shop not with the club) and they aren't allowed to even work, nor perform the chassis measurements, unless they have a B4 qualification. Again I ask this is for clarity and not debate.

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

I have never worked in a body shop. I have only worked at Midas and the like. I can only vouch for what Ive seen and done and they have done well for my application and others in my area. I also worked at a speed shop for 4 years and sold quite a few and also met people with simular beliefs as yours. This thread was only posted because I just had mine done and just happened to see a couple of threads about the subject.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

No problem. Just want to clarify that my intention wasn't to hijack and/or start s***, but just to get a clear understanding for what SFC's are being used for. Ryan is no doubt an upstanding sponsor with great stuff, my enquiry was directed to his customer base.

My reason I feel that SFC's can be useful for drag racing, and not all around needs is due to drag racers having different suspension needs for the weight transfer involved. Essentially the softer the damper valvings allow for faster weight transfer, the better the performance, and therefore the allowance for the road shocks to transfer, therefore SFC's can have their benefit, but as far as an AX and/or RR, I still think the jury is out there.