Buy American Shocks...
05-09-2006, 01:28 PM
#1
Staging Lane
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Buy American Shocks... I did a little research today and see that Koni is wholly owned by ITT Inc. of NY which technically makes the company American even though the item may be made in Holland. Bilstein on the other hand is owned by Germans. Almost as bad buying a Made in France product...
Just my $.02
Just my $.02
05-09-2006, 02:00 PM
#2
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get real. So Koni is better because they out sourced a product to take advantage of cheaper labor instead of paying american workers what they deserve to make it? Blah.
05-09-2006, 02:26 PM
#3
Koni has allways been Dutch. ITT bought them out a long while back. They aren't "outsourced" to Holland, most are built there. And Koni is a division of ITT. And they operate a large warehouse/race shop here in Kentucky.
And you ought to check the labor rates in Europe. We aren't talking China here, I'd lay money it'd be cheaper if they were built here and not imported, especially where our dollar stands now (weak). It's not a cost savings move, it's where Koni's are from.
And you ought to check the labor rates in Europe. We aren't talking China here, I'd lay money it'd be cheaper if they were built here and not imported, especially where our dollar stands now (weak). It's not a cost savings move, it's where Koni's are from.
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
05-09-2006, 03:19 PM
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Yes, Dutch labor unions are strong and cost of living is high, you bet'cher bottom dollar (currently worth .77 of a Euro) that they are not making a lot of $$ on Konis in the North American market right now.
05-09-2006, 04:21 PM
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Bilstein on the other hand is owned by Germans. Almost as bad buying a Made in France product...
I don't believe both sides...
I'm driving german rims and shocks on my Z28 (because they are light, strong and beautiful and perform well) and I will drive with american brakes from Stoptech on my BMW Z4 in the future (because they also perform very well and have a fair price).
Holger
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05-09-2006, 11:25 PM
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About Bilsteins,
Don't anybody here be fooled. They're a great product, though Koni offers much more considering that their whole line has adjustible valving (at least one being 4-way, though they might not be able to be mounted on a F-bod), while only a few of Bilsteins will eventually have adjustible valving (not counting the already available ones, and probably not for the standard F-body shock mounts).
And yes, Holger is right on the money about Stoptech, though several of their components are manufactured in California, and others in Italy.
Thyssen Krupp Bilstein of America in Poway, CA (North San Diego County) and Mooresville, NC are pretty helpful to when it comes to sales and info, so you can't lose with them either. If you choose Koni, they're great as well. If it's valving adjustment you need, Koni will pretty much be the answer.
All of the companies mentioned so far are quality companies with quality products.
P.S.: BTW Holger, I also noticed from another thread that you are using UMI products on your car, and they went through special approval through the TUV. Just goes to show that quality American products are recognised in europe as well.
In the long run, people will buy what they feel is for them, but no matter what anyone chooses, I will buy quality products as long as there isn't any serious consequence.
Don't anybody here be fooled. They're a great product, though Koni offers much more considering that their whole line has adjustible valving (at least one being 4-way, though they might not be able to be mounted on a F-bod), while only a few of Bilsteins will eventually have adjustible valving (not counting the already available ones, and probably not for the standard F-body shock mounts).
And yes, Holger is right on the money about Stoptech, though several of their components are manufactured in California, and others in Italy.
Thyssen Krupp Bilstein of America in Poway, CA (North San Diego County) and Mooresville, NC are pretty helpful to when it comes to sales and info, so you can't lose with them either. If you choose Koni, they're great as well. If it's valving adjustment you need, Koni will pretty much be the answer.
All of the companies mentioned so far are quality companies with quality products.
P.S.: BTW Holger, I also noticed from another thread that you are using UMI products on your car, and they went through special approval through the TUV. Just goes to show that quality American products are recognised in europe as well.
In the long run, people will buy what they feel is for them, but no matter what anyone chooses, I will buy quality products as long as there isn't any serious consequence.
05-10-2006, 12:10 AM
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Take econ 101 and fail lately?
Oddly enough why are you located in Italy and saying buy American...
I'm way to hammered to even try to explain this but Buy XXX place isn't as cut and dry as it seems.
my degree is in this feild so I might just have a slight idea wtf i'm talking about.
BTW i'm drunk from a grad party mine!!!
Don't mind my first line i'm just a bit easy to **** and sarcastic it's meant as a joke mostly.
Maybe i'll try to break it down if anyone cares tommorow when my BAC returns to somthing sane.
Oddly enough why are you located in Italy and saying buy American...
I'm way to hammered to even try to explain this but Buy XXX place isn't as cut and dry as it seems.
my degree is in this feild so I might just have a slight idea wtf i'm talking about.
BTW i'm drunk from a grad party mine!!!
Don't mind my first line i'm just a bit easy to **** and sarcastic it's meant as a joke mostly.
Maybe i'll try to break it down if anyone cares tommorow when my BAC returns to somthing sane.
05-10-2006, 01:17 AM
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I'm just busting chops, I have lived in Italy (tied to US Military) for 23 years. Look, I understand it is a "global economy" but I try to buy American when I can. Does it help? Probably not. BUT, I DO NOT FRENCH MADE PRODUCTS PERIOD!
Now, with that said, I don't see any MADE IN USA stuff on the shelves around here and nobody wants it. Like Holger said, they don't put USA and quality in the same sentence. They still have a protectionist market and you are a fool if you don't see it. For example, import duty on a truck in Italy is 20% PLUS 20% sales tax, so you pay 20% sales tax on the duty tax too...
TUV testing is not what it once was, the EC has made that so. The Chinese have infiltrated the market with their merchandise that you did not see just a few years ago. Hell, even Wal-Mart operates in Germany though it is under constant attack from the labor unions. The "EC or CE" (not the same as the TUV) mark must be on all merchandise imported which means the item conforms to European Community standards, sort of like the UL or other agencies in the US. Anybody can do it and when big money starts changing hands you better believe the CE really means "Chinese Export". Don't think the Germans or anybody else is above some good old financial persuasion...
Lerning about "world economics 101" in a classroom is a helluva lot different than living it everyday. I travel a lot in Europe and other locations tied to the old world and American products just don't appear, other than Jack or Jim in a bottle.
Now, with that said, I don't see any MADE IN USA stuff on the shelves around here and nobody wants it. Like Holger said, they don't put USA and quality in the same sentence. They still have a protectionist market and you are a fool if you don't see it. For example, import duty on a truck in Italy is 20% PLUS 20% sales tax, so you pay 20% sales tax on the duty tax too...
TUV testing is not what it once was, the EC has made that so. The Chinese have infiltrated the market with their merchandise that you did not see just a few years ago. Hell, even Wal-Mart operates in Germany though it is under constant attack from the labor unions. The "EC or CE" (not the same as the TUV) mark must be on all merchandise imported which means the item conforms to European Community standards, sort of like the UL or other agencies in the US. Anybody can do it and when big money starts changing hands you better believe the CE really means "Chinese Export". Don't think the Germans or anybody else is above some good old financial persuasion...
Lerning about "world economics 101" in a classroom is a helluva lot different than living it everyday. I travel a lot in Europe and other locations tied to the old world and American products just don't appear, other than Jack or Jim in a bottle.
05-10-2006, 11:00 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Sam Strano
Koni has allways been Dutch. ITT bought them out a long while back. They aren't "outsourced" to Holland, most are built there. And Koni is a division of ITT.
05-10-2006, 11:11 AM
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How on earth did I work a keyboard last night......
Big Johhny, I see you understand what I was talking about and yes US exports are dropping, but also thats due to shift of econmy for us and thats the "real problem" we are having. We can make money not making products just what to do to transfer over and how to keep our labor force working. Granted that is debatable hence I quote marked real problem some people honestly think we just need to make more.
You are right and from my travels i've seen it depends on where you go but any less devloped country even Mexico in large drools at the thought of a real US dollar or product.
Heck to help the US it would have been better had we all bought subies or hondas made in American plants.
Forgive my drunken rant from before I don't really remember this other then my subscprition popped up this morn lol.
Big Johhny, I see you understand what I was talking about and yes US exports are dropping, but also thats due to shift of econmy for us and thats the "real problem" we are having. We can make money not making products just what to do to transfer over and how to keep our labor force working. Granted that is debatable hence I quote marked real problem some people honestly think we just need to make more.
You are right and from my travels i've seen it depends on where you go but any less devloped country even Mexico in large drools at the thought of a real US dollar or product.
Heck to help the US it would have been better had we all bought subies or hondas made in American plants.
Forgive my drunken rant from before I don't really remember this other then my subscprition popped up this morn lol.
