Panhard Question.
06-29-2006, 05:16 PM
#2
www.sjmmanufacturing.com/deals.html
An adjustable rod is what you'll need; we are running specials at an incredible value. Most are made from similar material, some identical..so you'll see little if any differences from one company to another regarding construction. We manufacture ours with 1.25x.095” 4130 Chrome-moly DOM condition N. The main differences with our components are we include 1/2" upgraded bolt kits WITH our rod-ends...
Why include larger upgraded bolts you may ask? Rod ends can introduce additional noise through the drivetrain. Manufactures using zinc lined bushing, bronze bushings or oil-lite bushings have only available to them 1/2 inch inside diameters bushings. Stock bolts are METRIC.
Let’s take the LCA’s as an example. Using a 12mm stock metric bolt through a ½” inside diameter zinc bushing will leave larger tolerance and introduction of end-play and noise. Could we tell our folks to use the stock bolts, sure we could! We won’t for the reasons listed above.
For the reasons above, I feel that our kits are designed correctly and stand above the rest in comparison to other rod-ended setups. This is a small difference, though it is done for a reason which I have validated.
The special we are running is an outstanding value. A 4130 chrome-moly 139.99 panhard rod w/QA1 teflon rod ends including upgraded bolt kits is a tough one to pass up.
An adjustable rod is what you'll need; we are running specials at an incredible value. Most are made from similar material, some identical..so you'll see little if any differences from one company to another regarding construction. We manufacture ours with 1.25x.095” 4130 Chrome-moly DOM condition N. The main differences with our components are we include 1/2" upgraded bolt kits WITH our rod-ends...
Why include larger upgraded bolts you may ask? Rod ends can introduce additional noise through the drivetrain. Manufactures using zinc lined bushing, bronze bushings or oil-lite bushings have only available to them 1/2 inch inside diameters bushings. Stock bolts are METRIC.
Let’s take the LCA’s as an example. Using a 12mm stock metric bolt through a ½” inside diameter zinc bushing will leave larger tolerance and introduction of end-play and noise. Could we tell our folks to use the stock bolts, sure we could! We won’t for the reasons listed above.
For the reasons above, I feel that our kits are designed correctly and stand above the rest in comparison to other rod-ended setups. This is a small difference, though it is done for a reason which I have validated.
The special we are running is an outstanding value. A 4130 chrome-moly 139.99 panhard rod w/QA1 teflon rod ends including upgraded bolt kits is a tough one to pass up.
06-29-2006, 05:35 PM
#4
In the interest of giving you choices...
I can hook you up with a UMI double-ended PHB for $169. Also the teflon-lined 3 piece rod-ends, 4130 Chrome-Moly, etc. Doesn't come with bolts (you can buy new), reuses the stock ones, but fit is not a problem as UMI machines their bushings from aluminum to fit. And UMI bars come powdercoated as well.
I doubt highly there is anything wrong with the SJM bar. Actually I know there isn't. So it really comes down to what the coating is worth to you.
I can hook you up with a UMI double-ended PHB for $169. Also the teflon-lined 3 piece rod-ends, 4130 Chrome-Moly, etc. Doesn't come with bolts (you can buy new), reuses the stock ones, but fit is not a problem as UMI machines their bushings from aluminum to fit. And UMI bars come powdercoated as well.
I doubt highly there is anything wrong with the SJM bar. Actually I know there isn't. So it really comes down to what the coating is worth to you.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
06-29-2006, 05:43 PM
#6
they do.... any rod-ended one will. You just turn the rod-ends (one it left hand, the other is right hand thread) to move the axle vs. the body of the car. You tweak it until everything is centered @ ride height (do it on ramps, etc.).
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
06-29-2006, 06:40 PM
#7
Sam,
Looking at UMI's rod end adapters, this is one type that appears to use zinc or bronze bushings which retain 1/2" inside diameters only, not metric tolerances. Milling an aluminum bushing is fine, but the end inside diameter with that zinc sleeve insert is in English units, not metric(these bushings are typically called oil-lite bushings, there's a bunch of styles to consider each with different benefits fwiw).
The only way around this tolerance issue is to correctly adapt to a metric bolt is to mill a piece of aluminum with correct tolerances but not using standard zinc sleeves. This is what I am referring to as introducing additional noise through larger tolerances. Since the rod end does not dampen well, this additional play will transfer as noise through the rod end as it will float on the bolts. If this wasn't the case, we certainly wouldn't include 6-12.00 worth of bolts for no reason.
Other then this small difference, I think almost every manufacture making these components are almost identical in design.
To the purchaser, choose whichever manufacture meets your needs best.
Most, just as ours is adjustable on-car. Start with the bar at the stock length, then adjust it on the car to meet the desired effect.
Looking at UMI's rod end adapters, this is one type that appears to use zinc or bronze bushings which retain 1/2" inside diameters only, not metric tolerances. Milling an aluminum bushing is fine, but the end inside diameter with that zinc sleeve insert is in English units, not metric(these bushings are typically called oil-lite bushings, there's a bunch of styles to consider each with different benefits fwiw).
The only way around this tolerance issue is to correctly adapt to a metric bolt is to mill a piece of aluminum with correct tolerances but not using standard zinc sleeves. This is what I am referring to as introducing additional noise through larger tolerances. Since the rod end does not dampen well, this additional play will transfer as noise through the rod end as it will float on the bolts. If this wasn't the case, we certainly wouldn't include 6-12.00 worth of bolts for no reason.
Other then this small difference, I think almost every manufacture making these components are almost identical in design.
To the purchaser, choose whichever manufacture meets your needs best.
Most, just as ours is adjustable on-car. Start with the bar at the stock length, then adjust it on the car to meet the desired effect.
Last edited by SJM Manufacturing Inc; 06-29-2006 at 07:07 PM.
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06-29-2006, 08:11 PM
#8
Originally Posted by SJM Manufacturing Inc
Sam,
Looking at UMI's rod end adapters, this is one type that appears to use zinc or bronze bushings which retain 1/2" inside diameters only, not metric tolerances. Milling an aluminum bushing is fine, but the end inside diameter with that zinc sleeve insert is in English units, not metric(these bushings are typically called oil-lite bushings, there's a bunch of styles to consider each with different benefits fwiw).
Looking at UMI's rod end adapters, this is one type that appears to use zinc or bronze bushings which retain 1/2" inside diameters only, not metric tolerances. Milling an aluminum bushing is fine, but the end inside diameter with that zinc sleeve insert is in English units, not metric(these bushings are typically called oil-lite bushings, there's a bunch of styles to consider each with different benefits fwiw).
Hope that helps,
Ryan
06-29-2006, 09:21 PM
#9
Ryan,
Glad that you posted up to clarify your design. You may consider revising your pictures and descriptions as the approach of using a sleeve shows flaws. This would eliminate confusion. To the average person, someone may not know, but others may see this design and not like it. Good change to your setup if it has the correct tolerances for the stock bolt.
We decided to upgrade to a larger bolt to correct tolerance issues with our rod ends. That being said, we both have a correctly designed bar that will give similar results. FWIW, I commented on your bars since it was brought up...there are others still using your old approach, my initial direction was to anyone not you in particular.
To anyone interest in our products, rest assured our products are designed by an engineer and we back them up 100%. FEA (finite element analysis) testing is performed on many of our products in addition to real-world testing to ensure a safe and correctly designed component for the user.
www.sjmmanufacturing.com/deals.html orders can be placed online 24hrs a day. Parts are in stock ready to ship.
Glad that you posted up to clarify your design. You may consider revising your pictures and descriptions as the approach of using a sleeve shows flaws. This would eliminate confusion. To the average person, someone may not know, but others may see this design and not like it. Good change to your setup if it has the correct tolerances for the stock bolt.
We decided to upgrade to a larger bolt to correct tolerance issues with our rod ends. That being said, we both have a correctly designed bar that will give similar results. FWIW, I commented on your bars since it was brought up...there are others still using your old approach, my initial direction was to anyone not you in particular.
To anyone interest in our products, rest assured our products are designed by an engineer and we back them up 100%. FEA (finite element analysis) testing is performed on many of our products in addition to real-world testing to ensure a safe and correctly designed component for the user.
www.sjmmanufacturing.com/deals.html orders can be placed online 24hrs a day. Parts are in stock ready to ship.
07-13-2006, 10:58 PM
#12
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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I have a BMR adjustable panhard rod and yes you need one. Make sure whatever brand you get that it's double adjustable (has two adjustment nuts) so you don't have to take it off the car to adjust it. I can lay on the ground and adjust mine with two wrenches. You'll have to do it a few times as the car settles when you drive it.
07-19-2006, 04:25 PM
#13
Originally Posted by UsaTraveler
I have a BMR adjustable panhard rod and yes you need one. Make sure whatever brand you get that it's double adjustable (has two adjustment nuts) so you don't have to take it off the car to adjust it. I can lay on the ground and adjust mine with two wrenches. You'll have to do it a few times as the car settles when you drive it.