Ozzy

I was at the Fast toys web site looking over the goodies and came upon the suspension section that sells the G2 Shock Tower Brace and in the paragraph about the G2 it claims the LS1 cars must have the 3 point bar.

What gives?

I know many of us have the 2 point bars not the 3!

I've heard issues on the higher hsp cars having glass breakage issues but have never heard they must have the 3 point!

I did email them about this and am waiting on their reply as well.

They sure do have a bunch of nice stuff there with some good prices!

AZ28driver

It will be interesting to hear what they say. I have a 2 point Hotchkis on mine and love it.

OctaneZ28

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, that will be interesting to hear. Possibly just an error on their website maybe?
I've been very happy with my 2pt BMR STB. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

RCMSSCamaro

I was told by SLP that some earlier camaros have weaker firewalls. I could be wrong but I think it was in the LT1 era. I was told my car did not need a three point shock tower brace. With my current setup I can jack up the frame just ahead of my lower control arm and as my rear tire comes off my front tire is not far behind. If I reverse it and jack up the front I get the same in the rear. I really feel my car is as flat and stable as I need for the street or under 11.99 in the quarter. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Bob

<small>[ March 11, 2003, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: RCMSSCamaro ]</small>

Big Stick

There's a lot of debate regarding the need or lack there of for the three-point STB. A lot of people cite the windshield cracking as a negative, but it's always "I heard", I've never heard from someone that's actually happened to.

There's no magical science with STB's - I would just get the cheapest you can find.

BTW - I have a brand new Edlebrock 3-point I'm getting rid of (It just gets in my way working on the engine.)If you're interested I'll let it go for $90 OBO

unit213

I like my Hotchkis STB. I lean on that everytime I work on the car. I'm not too sure how much it helps cornering on a stock suspension f-body though. Looks damn cool too!

funeclown

A 3-point STB will physically give better rigidity to the front end. But not on these cars.

The firewall is nowhere near strong enough on the F-bod, and under enough stress could break the windshield.
No 3-point STB for me. later. <img border="0" alt="[chug]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" />

Ozzy

They have not returned my emails after several attempts.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

LG Motorsports

I will answer this one.

If you would look at what connects the front clip to the firewall, you will see that there are only a few spot welds. The front subframes go under the floorpan, and the whole thing rocks at the bottom of the firewall.
So this, plus the front fender "Horns" are what tries to limit flex. the front of the Fbody moves quite alot. If you only tie the left and right shock towers together, the whole front end still moves like a parallelogram // or \\. the three and 4 point EBB triangulates the whole structure and limits the movement almost completely. The newer the car is, the better it will stay, or if the car is older, then you need one to try to get it back to the way it was when it was new.

As for the Windshield breakage? No one beats their car up on a road course more than me, (except Mitch & Glen). and I have never seen any windshields break.
What I have seen is a Technician or owner break the windshield while taking the windshield wipers off with a screw driver, and chip the wind shield at that time. First of all, the wipers do not have to be removed. So there should be NO possibility of breaking the glass.

Keep in mind that Mustangs have one, with no breakage issues, and the Camaro is stronger in that area. So forget about that.

But do yourself a favor, and check out the spot welds, at the firewall where the front frame horns connect, and you will run out and get a 3 or 4 point.

And another thing you can do is to jack up the car at the front of the rocker, on the normal jack point, with a tape mesure or a string measuring from 2 points across the diagonal of the engine bay, and you will watch the measurement get larger and smaller as the car is jacked up, and let down.

Thanks

Lou Gigliotti www.LGMotorsports.com

<small>[ March 17, 2003, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: LG Motorsports ]</small>

scot

Side to side flex is reduced by any STB but the real weakness for any f body is top to bottom flex, worst in a vert, almost as bad with t-tops. That's why sfc's make a car feel more solid. Windshield attachment points are stronger since the designs for air bags require them to leverage against the firewall.3-point adds a similar topside reinforcement front to rear as a SFC does on the bottom.Added solidity gives the perception of better control but is unlikely to change performance parameters much.

pimpmaro

Lou, where exactly is it that the third point attaches to in the f-body? I was told that it just attaches to the plastic trim piece under the windshield wipers, but this most definately seems wrong to me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

LG Motorsports

It attaches to the steel drip rail at the leading edge of the firewall overhang.

By making the front structure more rigid, you will actually see better performance. Here is why:

As a car rolls through a corner, and all the load in on the outside front tire, those forces transmit through the upper shock tower. If there is flex, then you first have to overcome the bending forces that need to be applied to the chassis before you have reached your installed spring rate.
So if you have heavy springs and a floppy front end, you will never reach the point where the all the forces are acting on the spring rather than the chassis.

If you have a 600 lb/in front spring but a front end that moves at the rate of 1200 lbs/in ( it would take only 600lbs to flex 1/2 ")

Your true spring rate would now be only 400 lbs/in until the chassis stopped flexing.as the chassis gets older it starts to flex more, and thus would reduce your effective spring rate even more.

Hope this helps.

Lou Gigliotti Lgm

pimpmaro

Thanks Lou! That helps plenty! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />