aluminum
#21
Launching!
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From: searching for the perfect driving line
I agree with the general consensus. AL for the lcas and phb are fine but the torque arm is subjected to different types of loads. In fact, I am about to install some AL lcas and phb right now. If you need any specfic info just let me know, I will be taking pics during the install.
#22
well buddy of mine beat me to buying the lcas and torque arm first. well we got it put on and my god. they rule. and the workmenship looks great. he has ran 5 passes on the torque arm. i don't thnik 10.67 for the fastest is that bad. he was running close to the same thing on spohn chromoly set. but saved wieght. and would of saved money. so what you guys think now?
#23
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From: searching for the perfect driving line
Originally Posted by Big Bird WS6
well buddy of mine beat me to buying the lcas and torque arm first. well we got it put on and my god. they rule. and the workmenship looks great. he has ran 5 passes on the torque arm. i don't thnik 10.67 for the fastest is that bad. he was running close to the same thing on spohn chromoly set. but saved wieght. and would of saved money. so what you guys think now?
#25
I won't use aluminum for either the PHB or the LCA's. Seen them bend, and frankly considering the small amount of weight anyway, why risk it. While I hear all the moans and groans about how strong aluminum is and all, I've seen an Aluminum PHB bend (a production part from a reputable company) without hitting a thing. Sure it took a fast car on R-compound tires, but the fact is it bent none the less. Considering a CM PHB is a whopping 5 pounds or so, you might save a pound with aluminum (and even less on LCA's since they are smaller).
Not worth the risk IMHO. What's harder to crush, an aluminum can, or a steel one?
YMMV, and it's great that folks haven't had issues aluminum. I know people who don't change their oil either and haven't blown motors, but I still change mine.
Not worth the risk IMHO. What's harder to crush, an aluminum can, or a steel one?
YMMV, and it's great that folks haven't had issues aluminum. I know people who don't change their oil either and haven't blown motors, but I still change mine.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
#26
well then i will get steel ones on the lca and just use there aluminum torque arm. well i know you wanted to include that too. we already had this talk. but one aluminum thing broke and now it is all bad. well i have seen many steel and chromoly things break. so maybe i should stay away from that. and do like $1000 titanium. every thing breaks. life goes on. just repalce it. like steel stuff.
#27
I should add that I would DEFINITELY not use an aluminum torque arm, I'd sooner use aluminum LCA's and PHB's.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
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#30
Originally Posted by Big Bird WS6
so you agree cause one aluminum part breaks. now all aluminum parts are bad. well what about the guy i know running 10s. on a street car. my hats off to him.
#31
good call, but i guess time will tell. and a 10 bolt should run 10s. but you are fighting the wrong points. drag racers don't run 10s or have 600 horse. they run 7s and 8s and have 1000, or 1200 hosres. 10s that is the street car that lives down the street. i am just saying that for a street car(STREET CAR) running10s on aluminum is pretty good.
#32
And you disagree because why? FWIW, the PHB I saw bend was on a Mustang. Happened @ an autocross on tires that are street legal. Sticky tires, what I compete on too, but considering we can pull about 1.2g max and a PHB bent, that was all I needed to see.
Go ahead, run little aluminum tubes. And you'll probably tell us how some really high end cars run aluminum suspension part too. And they do. But they quite large castings or forged pieces. And not all aluminum is the same, and not all the uses of it are the same. We all have aluminum wheels on our cars, even from the factory. Does that mean any aluminum wheel is as strong? Hell no, and some companies will actually say that their wheels aren't intended for certain uses.
Go ahead, run little aluminum tubes. And you'll probably tell us how some really high end cars run aluminum suspension part too. And they do. But they quite large castings or forged pieces. And not all aluminum is the same, and not all the uses of it are the same. We all have aluminum wheels on our cars, even from the factory. Does that mean any aluminum wheel is as strong? Hell no, and some companies will actually say that their wheels aren't intended for certain uses.
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
#33
Well, I am not trying to stir the pot on what appears to be a rather controversial thread, but I would like to provide some engineering reasoning here:
There will be 2 forces acting on these components, longitudinal and rotational.
Longitudinal forces act along the centerline of the device. Let's use the panhard rod as the example. The longitudinal forces act along the length of the rod, from one end to the other. This serves to either compress or stretch the rod. In this case, I would expect to see little difference between aluminum and steel.
Rotatlional forces act in two axes. The first would be to attempt to twist or rotate the bar, causing the ends to no longer be parallel with each other. In this case, my money would be on steel. The second would be to attempt to bend the bar in either a clockwise or counter-clockwise direction, with the ends still parallel but a noticeable bend somewhere near the center. Again, I would put my money on aluminum.
IMHO, due to the initial cost of either type of material, I would prefer to go steel and minimize the risk.
Hope this helps.
There will be 2 forces acting on these components, longitudinal and rotational.
Longitudinal forces act along the centerline of the device. Let's use the panhard rod as the example. The longitudinal forces act along the length of the rod, from one end to the other. This serves to either compress or stretch the rod. In this case, I would expect to see little difference between aluminum and steel.
Rotatlional forces act in two axes. The first would be to attempt to twist or rotate the bar, causing the ends to no longer be parallel with each other. In this case, my money would be on steel. The second would be to attempt to bend the bar in either a clockwise or counter-clockwise direction, with the ends still parallel but a noticeable bend somewhere near the center. Again, I would put my money on aluminum.
IMHO, due to the initial cost of either type of material, I would prefer to go steel and minimize the risk.
Hope this helps.
#35
Originally Posted by Sam Strano
...And you'll probably tell us how some really high end cars run aluminum suspension part too. And they do. But they quite large castings or forged pieces. And not all aluminum is the same, and not all the uses of it are the same...
#36
the torque arm is made of 1 1/4 6061 aluminum. with 1/4 wall. all steel stuff has 1/8 wall. and with this increase in wall size strenght increases. but wieght is still less.
the lca and phb are made of 1 1/4 2024 aluminum with 1/4 wall. and same from up top applies to this. i dont know. aint any engineer about it. but i know. if i get the same streght as chromoly, less the wieght, and cheaper. i will get it.
and if you want info on this stuff pm me.
the lca and phb are made of 1 1/4 2024 aluminum with 1/4 wall. and same from up top applies to this. i dont know. aint any engineer about it. but i know. if i get the same streght as chromoly, less the wieght, and cheaper. i will get it.
and if you want info on this stuff pm me.
#37
Originally Posted by Sam Strano
I won't use aluminum for either the PHB or the LCA's. Seen them bend, and frankly considering the small amount of weight anyway, why risk it. While I hear all the moans and groans about how strong aluminum is and all, I've seen an Aluminum PHB bend (a production part from a reputable company) without hitting a thing. Sure it took a fast car on R-compound tires, but the fact is it bent none the less. Considering a CM PHB is a whopping 5 pounds or so, you might save a pound with aluminum (and even less on LCA's since they are smaller).
Not worth the risk IMHO. What's harder to crush, an aluminum can, or a steel one?
YMMV, and it's great that folks haven't had issues aluminum. I know people who don't change their oil either and haven't blown motors, but I still change mine.
Not worth the risk IMHO. What's harder to crush, an aluminum can, or a steel one?
YMMV, and it's great that folks haven't had issues aluminum. I know people who don't change their oil either and haven't blown motors, but I still change mine.
Agree totally......but some people will still insist on using them. I have also seen how fast a loose rod end will destroy a set of threads in an aluminum component and cause a failure.
Lee Spicher
Lee@bmrfabrication.com
(813)986-9302
#39
Originally Posted by Big Bird WS6
but BMR. you are making a set of lca for f-bodies out of aluminum. you don't make any sense.
That part is CNC'd out of solid billet stock and has no threaded ends on it. Not even a fair comparison to a threaded piece of aluminum tubing.
Lee Spicher
lee@bmrfabrication.com
(813)986-9302
#40
Which I told this Big Bird WS6 fellow weeks ago when he, out of the blue, PM'ed me telling me I was wrong about aluminum.
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Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion