Finally Decided: I am NOT doing the C5 Conversion anymore. Here's why . . .
#1
Finally Decided: I am NOT doing the C5 Conversion anymore. Here's why . . .
Hey, some of you may have seen me ask a bunch of questions concerning the C5 Conversion swap. I had the intentions of finishing up this conversion this month but decided, "To hell with it."
I already bought the bracket and will just buy the Corvette Rotors and re-use my stock LS1 F-Body Calipers. This whole time that I've been searching for a good price on some C5 Calipers, I thought, "I am switching from my 2 piston setup to a . . . . . . . . . . 2 piston setup." Yes the C5 caliper is pressure-cast instead of gravity-cast. Yes the C5 caliper is SLIGHTLY larger and holds SLIGHTY larger pads. Does it justify the 250-300 price-tag? No.
Go big or go home. That is the attitude I am taking. I highly doubt that these calipers will be a worthwile mod. I feel as if changing to Hawk Pads, Stainless Steel Braided lines, ATE Super Blue brake fluid, Corvette Rotor blanks with my STOCK calipers will feel JUST AS GOOD AS: chaning to Hawk Pads, Stainless Steel Braided lines, ATE Super Blue brake fluid, Corvette Rotor blanks with Corvette Calipers.
Anyone have opinions? Feedback? I am dying to hear your perspective on this. Not so much from VIP1.
I already bought the bracket and will just buy the Corvette Rotors and re-use my stock LS1 F-Body Calipers. This whole time that I've been searching for a good price on some C5 Calipers, I thought, "I am switching from my 2 piston setup to a . . . . . . . . . . 2 piston setup." Yes the C5 caliper is pressure-cast instead of gravity-cast. Yes the C5 caliper is SLIGHTLY larger and holds SLIGHTY larger pads. Does it justify the 250-300 price-tag? No.
Go big or go home. That is the attitude I am taking. I highly doubt that these calipers will be a worthwile mod. I feel as if changing to Hawk Pads, Stainless Steel Braided lines, ATE Super Blue brake fluid, Corvette Rotor blanks with my STOCK calipers will feel JUST AS GOOD AS: chaning to Hawk Pads, Stainless Steel Braided lines, ATE Super Blue brake fluid, Corvette Rotor blanks with Corvette Calipers.
Anyone have opinions? Feedback? I am dying to hear your perspective on this. Not so much from VIP1.
#4
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A couple things to factor in ...
There are a larger variety and range of brake pads to chose from for a Vette. And in many cases, the pads are a lot cheaper.
The C5 rotor is about 1/4" thicker than an F-Car rotor. So jamming new pads and a thicker rotor between the ears of a stock caliper can be tricky.
C5 calipers can be had for cheap, if you find them used. Look on the Vette forums.
JMHO ...
There are a larger variety and range of brake pads to chose from for a Vette. And in many cases, the pads are a lot cheaper.
The C5 rotor is about 1/4" thicker than an F-Car rotor. So jamming new pads and a thicker rotor between the ears of a stock caliper can be tricky.
C5 calipers can be had for cheap, if you find them used. Look on the Vette forums.
JMHO ...
#6
TECH Senior Member
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What brackets are you using? You'll need the Corvette PAB's for many of the kits, the bolt sizes are different (F-body is 12mm, Corvette is 14mm and they don't swap). With the C5 PAB's, you'll need C5 pads. The Corvette calipers use smaller pistons to adjust the brake bias back to stock. With the larger rotor, you'll shift the bias towards the front, with the Corvette calipers, you'll "put it back" to where it was (as far as the front to rear braking balance is concerned).
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Originally Posted by trackbird
What brackets are you using? You'll need the Corvette PAB's for many of the kits, the bolt sizes are different (F-body is 12mm, Corvette is 14mm and they don't swap). With the C5 PAB's, you'll need C5 pads. The Corvette calipers use smaller pistons to adjust the brake bias back to stock. With the larger rotor, you'll shift the bias towards the front, with the Corvette calipers, you'll "put it back" to where it was (as far as the front to rear braking balance is concerned).
I have a question not related to this...
but, if you shift the bias back to stock, does that mean that it will then only stop with the same force as the stock braking system? I am having a hard time understanding this. If the Fbody's have bigger pistons w/ smaller rotors, does that make them the same strength(stopping 'power') as the smaller piston w/ larger rotor on the C5?
I thought that the larger the piston area (within reason), the greater the force on the pads?
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#8
Copy & Paste Moderator
Originally Posted by 02TransAm/Batmobile
Anyone have opinions? Feedback? I am dying to hear your perspective on this. Not so much from VIP1.
What did or didn't I do to not be good enough to voice an opinion?
I don't know enough about the topic to respond in a helpful manner and was going to refrain from responding until I saw that last line.
#10
Originally Posted by VIP1
What did or didn't I do to not be good enough to voice an opinion?
I don't know enough about the topic to respond in a helpful manner and was going to refrain from responding until I saw that last line.
Well here is the smiley face:
It's because you always have something to say to my threads!
#12
Copy & Paste Moderator
Originally Posted by 02TransAm/Batmobile
Oops!
Originally Posted by 02TransAm/Batmobile
It's because you always have something to say to my threads!
Hopefully I provided useful information.
I like this smiley -->
#17
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Originally Posted by gun5l1ng3r
I have a question not related to this...
but, if you shift the bias back to stock, does that mean that it will then only stop with the same force as the stock braking system? I am having a hard time understanding this. If the Fbody's have bigger pistons w/ smaller rotors, does that make them the same strength(stopping 'power') as the smaller piston w/ larger rotor on the C5?
I thought that the larger the piston area (within reason), the greater the force on the pads?
but, if you shift the bias back to stock, does that mean that it will then only stop with the same force as the stock braking system? I am having a hard time understanding this. If the Fbody's have bigger pistons w/ smaller rotors, does that make them the same strength(stopping 'power') as the smaller piston w/ larger rotor on the C5?
I thought that the larger the piston area (within reason), the greater the force on the pads?
#18
TECH Senior Member
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Originally Posted by jmilz28
Trackbird, could you elaborate on this please? I'm about to pull the trigger here without the C5 calipers but want to make sure I am not throwing my brake bias out of whack...
Brake bias is the balance of stopping force from front to rear. If you cranked the bias forward "a whole bunch", you'd lock the front wheels long before the rear wheels were really working well. In that case, the front brakes are doing most of the work and your braking performance suffers. If you cranked the bias to the rear "a whole bunch", the rear brakes would lock up (think of pulling the e-brake) and the fronts wouldn't do much. These are both extreme cases, but it's to illustrate the point.
So, by keeping the bias the same, we keep the balance in the brake system. If you shifted the bias forward, you can put more heat into the front rotors (compared to the rears) in the same stop (say a single stop from 80 mph). It shifts where the heat goes (to which end of the car). The C5 kit has been tested and shown to decrease stopping distance (an LT1 car that I know of that's running the C5 kit stopped from 60-0 in 111 feet). Don't confuse bias with overall braking effectiveness. The C5 brakes are considerably more effective, but they retain something very similar to the original bias.
Did that help?
Something else to remember, the harder you stop, the less weight there is on the rear of the car. So, if you could stop hard enough, you'd lift the rear wheels (like a motorcycle). This is why most brake systems are set to taper off the rear pressure as pressure rises. It's not a linear curve, but the more pressure you add, the less percentage of it goes to the rear brakes (to account for the less traction they have when more weight shifts forward). By retaining similar to stock bias, you help to keep that rear brake pressure curve working as designed (avoiding too much or too little rear brake application). So, bias helps keep the system working to specification, but isn't exactly related to upgraded brakes and upgraded performance. Also, larger brakes will handle more heat (more repeated stops) and that's something that's an improvement no matter what concerns you have about bias.
Did that help?
And, to answer your question. The larger rotors with F-body calipers will pull the bias forward a bit. In actual use, it doesn't seem to be enough to have a major impact on the braking performance. However, be careful with some other systems that might be "home brewed", they could be off considerably from stock.
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That makes sense. That's why with a lot of big brake kits you have to run an adjustable proportioning valve, to reset bias? And is the C5 conversion bracket required to run the C5 rotor even without the C5 caliper?