JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Who sells such strong actuators?

sneaky7980

iTrader: (15)

Heres just a couple to give you an idea whats out there

http://www.duffnorton.com/products/emech.aspx

http://www.se-eng-sales.com/electrom...cal_actuat.htm

I can get more info on some others when i return to work this week.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Is 2Klbs about the limit? I'd prefer 3K-4Klb units just to be on the safe side. How would it compare to the hydraulic setup?
price
mounting size
etc...

If the 3" stroke unit is pretty bulky then you may be forced to use a lever just to package it in the car.

sneaky7980

iTrader: (15)

So far 2000lbs is about as big as i can find and still retain some kind of decent overall size. I think that's where the lever would come into play. As far as a comparison to to hydro or air i can't really speak much on that since i haven't messed with any of that stuff in the car world.
Price could be a factor if you compare a electric actuator to an air spring or hydro cylinder itself, but with electric you eliminate buying any valves, reservoirs, pumps and tubing.
Like i said earlier, when i get back to work, i'll get the name of some companies that make similar products for the aircraft world and maybe make some phone calls. I've had one particular actuator in mind that is used on the C-130 Hercules.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I'm thinking those actuators are going to be mega expensive. Plus, even the 2,000lb units may not handle the constant impacts that the suspension takes. The gears may get loose or we may eventually chip a tooth.

I did come up with a plan that would greatly reduce the load on the 4 corners. We can preload the actuator or cylinder with a heavy duty spring of some type and still have the weight of the car fully compress this spring. If the spring tension just barely allows the car to fully drop, a person could walk up to it and lift one of the corners several inches. We basically use spring tension to make the car easy to push up and down and this reduces the load tremendously. This is why we would need something to hold the suspension firmly in place in both compression and extension. So air bags are out. It would have to be a hydraulic cylinder or an actuator.

I still like the the hydraulic cylinder idea myself as I know it will cost very little and it is very robust. The competition cylinders that are used these days hold up to jumping the cars so you know they are mega strong. Then, if we can preload the corners we could probably get by with a very small pump and the single car battery. This would keep weight way down. Since a smaller, weaker pump could do the job we could probably get a used unit for a very low price. Most lowriders these days use big powerfull pumps so a smaller unit can probably be found easily from someone who has upgraded.

There is also a device called a piston pump that boosts the pump strength (or maybe just speed, I'm not sure). It basically consists of pressurizing the fluid in the reservoir.

I wish we could use a small pump to pressurize a reservoir similar to how a small air pump can pressurize a tank. hen the vehicle can be raise fairly quickly and the pump can take it's time repressurizing more fluid. I like the idea, but have not seen it done. It may be too dangerous as the pressures get into the several thousand pounds range.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

My car is in storage right now awaiting a new motor, but I got to take a few measurements last night. From the top of the koni hat to the hood was about 6.5". That's way less than I thought. It leaves no room for a rodend to allow for flex when the suspension moves up and down.

I was thinking of mounting the rod end like this:



Or:


But there is just no room for it. What would have to do is screw the Koni hat directly into the end of the cylinder pushrod. All the cylinders have a threaded holes at the end to bolt on various suspension parts.


So with the cylinder and shock being a solid unit we would have to mount the cylinder with side mounts that would allow it to rock left and right. It should not be too hard.

I may be able to fit a rodended tophat like the silver one I posted above (sold by Koni) if I pull a few tricks out of my sleeve. I worked on a drop spindle idea a while back that can drop the front 2-3 inches and should cost under $200. I can also drop the lower shock mount into the A-arm. Both of those mods would give me the room I need to solidly mount the cylinder and use the rodend in between.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Does everyone understand about the 4" stroke cylinder mounting straight on top of the shock and coming through the shock mount into the engine bay?
I can do a picture if anyone needs one.

I just think this is the most straight forward, cheapest and durable setup I've yet to think up. The actuators may be an alternative, but I have my doubts concerning the 3 points I mentioned above.

A small pump and the valves can probably be fitted under the car and out of the way.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Since my last post I decided to sell my front shocks and GC sleeves and buy some Koni 8216 coilovers valved similarly to my Koni SA 1139 fronts. I'm going to get a reduced stroke of maybe 2.75"-3" (stock is about 4.7") . The whole assembly is much, much shorter than the 1139 giving me plenty of room to mount a longer 6" stroke cylinder if I want.

I also just found a cool video of a similar hydraulic coilover setup. I knew it was too cool an idea to not have been done by someone. Check it out.

Cozytech Hydraulic Racing Coilover Suspension

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I think I'm going to split this thread up. All the info is here about the air strut setup if someone is interested.

I'm going to stick to good ol' coilovers and the hydraulic ride height system.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I just found a similar design sold in the US from Umbrella Auto Design. They say it's better than the Roberuta Cup. It's still $3000 and I think you can only have ride height or higher. So it's not something I would consider. They do say it gives 5" of lift, but looking at the picture of the cups, I doubt it.


Video here:
http://www.umbrellaautodesign.com/co...t_pending.html

And here:
http://www.noticias.info/video/video...Id=ys6zCuSJIYQ

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

New thread explaining the hydraulic coilover setup here:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/823483-hydraulic-coilover-thread.html

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Well, the hydraulic setup is starting to not be fun anymore and get really complicated.

The reasons why I switched from an air system to hydraulic in the first place and why I'm switching back to air:

One, it should be cheaper than an air setup. (I'm not so sure about this anymore. I'm also not looking so hard at the bottom dollar. I want something that will work well and meet my goals. Price is not a high priority anymore)

Two, your spring rate will never change so you know your going to get the same great grip you have now. (I think I found a solution to this problem if you run 2 bags up front with an adjustable ride height threaded sleeve and collar)

Three, I should be able to get more range of suspension travel. (The dual bag setup should give me the range I need)

Four, it takes up less space as you don't need a big air tank. (The hydraulic setup was getting bigger and bigger. The air setup may actaully take less space)


So I started thinking about solutions to these air related problems.

You know how the strut air bag assembly wouldn't fit over a shock that uses a threaded sleeve like the Koni/Ground Control combo I have?

If it could, we could adjust the air bag pressure until it was rather firm and then set the ride height accordingly. Well, if we switched to a threaded body shock it would fit under that 2.1" diameter limit. Or if we stick with the GC sleeve, we may be able to reduce it's height some and then use a simple piece of thick pipe to space the bag up higher. That way the bag can be adjusted up and down without actually hitting the sleeve.

Does anyone need a picture to understand what I'm talking about?

It's something to think about.

I should also point out, I don't care anymore about keeping the Koni 1139's that have now. If swapping them with some 8216 rebound adjustables like this:

will work better, I'll do it.

They should be equvalent to the 1139's and cost about $300ea. That's about $50 more than the 1139, but since it has the coilover threads already cut into the body, it's about equal in cost with the GC sleeves. You just need to fab up some new mounts.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

BTW, the only downside I can see is if the bag is almost fully inflated when we get to our firm spring rate. If that's the case, we would not be able to lift the car much higher for clearance.

It would be cool if the double convoluted bags had seperate chambers. We could inflate one chamber a lot to give us the firm spring rate we want and only inflate the second chamber to lift the car up over things. Or 2 short bags, only inflating the second one for 4x4 mode. That would be cool.

After working on various hydraulic systems, this air bag stuff is cake. Much simpler.

I may also need a bit longer stroke on the shock in order to get the range of heights I want.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Here you can see how much thicker the GC sleeves are as well as how far up they go. The Koni SA shocks also have a lower groove to place the sleeve lower. You can also get a new groove cut into the shock body to move the sleeve even lower still. It may be easiest to just cut the top part of the sleve off since they aren't usually used. Then make a 2"-3" spacer for the air bag to sit on to raise it up some. That way the bag will not touch the sleeve and you'll still have some roon to adjust it up and down.



This pic shows the groove in the shock body.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

This twin air bag idea may be the key. If we run a regular Universal Air (UVAIR) Aero Sport bag over the shock, we can adjust it's pressure as high as we want to make it stiff for handling, then adjust the collar on the threaded sleeve to set out ride height, then get the car aligned.

At this point we don't have much room left in the bag to raise the car another 4" or so for steep driveways. So we fix this by adding another air bag on top of the Aero Sport. We don't need to spend another $350 for dual Aero Sports on each front wheel. All we would need is a durable donut looking bag we can keep deflated and air up only when necessary. Something like this:



But smaller and stronger. I suppose it could be lager in diameter, like 7" or 8", but it has to have a hole in it for the shock rod to go through. All it would need is maybe 2" of lift. At the whell, this would equal to 3.4". Has anyone seen anything that would work and costs less than $350?

I'd hate to do it, but I could get a 3rd and 4th Aero Sport bag for $350 and use it. It seems a waste, but it would work.

With 2 bags it becomes even more important to move the sleeve down for this all to fit.

We just need anything that can basically help lift the car for those slow, short trips over obstacles. It doesn't have to handle well when raised way up. we already have air pressure, so why not try and use that?

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Here's some pics using a single bag.

First, we send out the shock to have a new groove cut much lower:


Then we slide the sleeve on:


Move the collar up:


Then fab up a spacer to hold the bag higher than the threads (maybe 2"?) then slide the bag on:


Now the ride height is seperate from the air bag pressure. We can pressurize it as high as the bag allows. Once we find the sweet spot, we adjust the collar to set our ride height.

I'm not sure about this, but we may be able to just cut the sleeve shorter instead of having to cut a new groove. I know that would be easier to do, but we might not have enough adjustment room left.

Here is more detail on the lower perch spacer:



With the Ground Control sleeve you'd make the inner diameter 2.5"-2.6" diameter and slide it down onto the threaded collar.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

If we could take a bag like this, take it apart, slide it onto the shock body and then seal it somehow, it would be perfect for our extra lift bag. It's only 2" compressed and extends to 4". So that 2" stroke would give us a 3.4" lift at the wheels. There is also a similar bag that is 5" expanded. It's 3" stroke would lift the car 5.1".





I just can't see a way to seal them at the moment. I have another idea for 4x4 mode I'll talk about later.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Since I was refreshing my memory, I see that this pic:

is the Universal Air Strut Bag from CCE Air Systems.



This pic:

is of the "Aero Sport" By Universal Air.

Did they come from the same parent company? Yes!

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Does this solve all the issues we had with this airbag idea or do I need to figure something else out?

Thinking about tanks. It might be better to use a pair of smaller tanks under the back of the car. How high can you run the tank pressure? It seems the higher, the better. Also, the bigger, the better.

So far I can't find any max pressure for these strut bags. One says 1500lb load at 110psi. So they'll do at least 110psi I guess.

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

Wish I could help