Eibach Sportline w/ KYB AGX
04-11-2012, 10:37 AM
#21
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I did Strano springs with Bilsteins back in october. If you can't afford Koni's, I think this is the next best option. A friend of mine has eibach pro's and Bilsteins and there is a huge difference in the ride quality between my car and his. I didn't measure my drop but it was between 1.25 and 1.5 inches. Yes, more of a drop would look better in my opinion, but it would feel like s***. Just my .02.
04-11-2012, 04:29 PM
#24
TECH Senior Member
Holy thread revival...
Welcome to LS1tech, Im assuming your a new Fbody owner as well? I assume this because I guess you haven't had time to search here to see the countless posts with guys having sagging problems with Eibachs on our cars. When someone says "Eibach sucks", they mean for our cars, not as a whole company. The sportlines are a perfect example of why they "suck". They drop the car so much its practically sitting on the bump stops, then combine that with a low-ish spring rate and you have yourself basically using your bump stops as the spring. You need suspension travel for your suspension to work properly and your car to truly handle well.
You are definitely in the minority then, either that or you have nothing to compare it to. You've also got taller, softer side walled tires than most run, which will definitely add cushyness.
If you think it corners on rails now you'd **** your pants in an Fbody with a good setup...
Honestly you're better off cutting a coil off your stock springs and running SLP bilstiens all around.
You don't have to be tearing up a track to want significantly better ride, stability, feel, control and all around handling (and quality as well).
.... and to all the other posts that say Strano is the only way to go, Eibach sucks, Eibach springs sag, etc, etc, etc..... But there's dozens of hits on internet that speak quite highly of Eibach. Here's just a few of what I found.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/CarDom...330080229.html
http://autoholics.com/2011/01/03/Car...Winners-487774
http://www.pr-inside.com/cardomain-c...f-r2349083.htm
Face it. German engineering has always been considered superior, and while I wouldn't trade my Firebird for a BMW (though BMWs are far superior in quality) they lack the sex appeal of the 4th gen f-bodies. As for Eibach, all I can say is that any company that wins 5 consecutive years as the people's first choice in suspension on Cardomain.com, a social network of over 2 million car enthusiasts, can hardly be labeled as putting out "crap" products.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/CarDom...330080229.html
http://autoholics.com/2011/01/03/Car...Winners-487774
http://www.pr-inside.com/cardomain-c...f-r2349083.htm
Face it. German engineering has always been considered superior, and while I wouldn't trade my Firebird for a BMW (though BMWs are far superior in quality) they lack the sex appeal of the 4th gen f-bodies. As for Eibach, all I can say is that any company that wins 5 consecutive years as the people's first choice in suspension on Cardomain.com, a social network of over 2 million car enthusiasts, can hardly be labeled as putting out "crap" products.
Since there are 8 settings with 8 being the stiffest ride, I expected my Trans Am to feel like I was riding on a go-cart. Not even close. I couldn't believe how comfortable the ride was. I hit a few dips in the road and the worst I heard was my air dam scraping the pavement. No bottoming, no noise, and absolutely no degradation in comfort.
Best of all, it now corners like it's tied to rails.
Anyone wanting to put some sex appeal in their F-body with a limited budget should consider this configuration.
Sure Koni's may be king, but unless you plan on tearing your car up on the track, why spend 3 times the amount of money?
04-14-2012, 07:10 PM
#25
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Looking at this thread today because my Eibach sportlines were to soft for my AGX's and I busted my right rear shock while testing out my new street tires today, now I have a problem. These shocks and springs are 5+ years old now and do have about 60k miles on them, that may play a part on the shock failing, but you hear about it all the time, now it has happened to me. I do plan on running the the Strano springs and the Koni SA's, now that my budget allows me to.
04-15-2012, 12:48 AM
#27
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I bought my car and it has Eibach sport lines on it and it sits about 2in lower. I hate the ride!!!! It bounces bad and they play heck on the struts. They are coming off this week trust me!!
04-15-2012, 08:44 PM
#28
Holy thread revival...
Welcome to LS1tech, Im assuming your a new Fbody owner as well? I assume this because I guess you haven't had time to search here to see the countless posts with guys having sagging problems with Eibachs on our cars. When someone says "Eibach sucks", they mean for our cars, not as a whole company. The sportlines are a perfect example of why they "suck". They drop the car so much its practically sitting on the bump stops, then combine that with a low-ish spring rate and you have yourself basically using your bump stops as the spring. You need suspension travel for your suspension to work properly and your car to truly handle well.
I can feel the front end traveling smoothly up and down as I drive, with absolutely no bottoming, so I know darn well they're not hitting the bump stops! And I did search extensively on this site before making my decision. No doubt there are better springs and shocks/struts out there. But if you're on a tight budget like me, you have two choices: (1) Don't do anything and just live with a car that looks like a cross between a sedan and a sport coupe or, (2) Do what you can afford to do to get the asthetics and adequate (not optimum) reliablility based on your driving habits. I'm easy on my car and so I see no reason for concern. As to the Sportliner series, I've also heard good things about them on this same website. That's why it was so frustrating for me because I ended up with a hodge-podge of opinions. It's also why I finally called the KYB factory and talked to their technical support folks about pairing their AGX adjustables with the Sportliner series. I was told point blank that their AGX adjustables aren't designed for the Sportliners, but I was also told that as long as I stay away from settings 1-3, I'll be okay. The tech rep I talked to suggested a minimum setting of 5, so I set them on 6 for added protection. But I didn't overdo it by setting them to 7 or 8 because I want adequate up and down travel of the piston (vibration damping) to prevent the welds on the shock from failing (see my comments below for why). I live in Arizona where the roads are in pretty decent shape, so chances of me hitting a pothole or some other object that would cause a sudden compression of the strut and bottoming is remote. So as long as I take care with the dips and speed bumps, I shouldn't ever damage the shocks. I have a strong suspicion that those who say their KYB AGX's broke, broke them by either accidentally jumping a curb, hitting a big pothole, etc... OR by setting them so high that they're practically riding on a solid link rather than a damper. Over time, that will cause the welds on the exterior of the shock to fatigue and eventually fail. I guess what I'm saying is that you have to find the sweet spot between preventing shock bottoming while still allowing adequate damping.
You are definitely in the minority then, either that or you have nothing to compare it to. You've also got taller, softer side walled tires than most run, which will definitely add cushyness.
Right now, I'm running Riken 245/50-16s on the front and Kuhmo 255/60-16s on the back. I pulled the 245/50s off the back and replaced them with the taller 255/60s to jack up the rear end and close the fender to tire gap. I'm very fond of the wedge shape (one reason I'm not a fan of the 5th Gen Camaros), and leaving the stock springs/shocks in place while putting taller tires on the rear was like putting high-heels on a sexy woman. It jacks up her a-- and makes her legs look sleeker.
Then I lowered the front end which makes those "heels" look even higher. But seriously, it also adds to improved handling and performance. By jacking up the back and lowering the front, I've altered the center of gravity forward where the steering is. And the fatter, softer tires on the back compensate to prevent the back end from fishtailing in a turn. That configuration makes for a good car to run in a slalom race. But I don't think it's my tires that are making the difference as far as ride quality goes. After reading just about every post on this site related to the Sportliners, it seems that the complaints are related to lowering of the rear-end. That's because the rear end of the f-body is light, and so that's the area that transmits the most vibration into the cockpit. So yes, I would agree that using Sportliners on the rear suspension would be a mistake. But the front is heavy enough that it tends to compress the springs and shocks and so dampens out road vibration a lot better. The downside to that is exactly what you mentioned earlier -- a risk of riding on the bump stops. But I believe I've mitigated that risk by cranking up the setting on the AGX to near max without overdoing it. After much thought, I decided not to crank it up to 7 or 8 because I didn't want to prevent shock bottoming to the point that I'm risking breaking a shock by riding on an almost solid link rather than a damper. With a 7 or 8 setting, when your car hits a big bump, instead of the piston dampening out the "WHAM", the "WHAM" is transmitted to the exterior of the shock. The exterior of the shocks have to take those punches which, over time, will cause hairline cracks on the shock welds. With repeated punches the shock welds will fail and the shock will come apart.
If you think it corners on rails now you'd **** your pants in an Fbody with a good setup...
Maybe so, but only if the driver jacked up his rear end and put fat soft tires on the rear (to prevent skidding), and then lowered his front end using superior suspension parts. That, not lowering the entire car, makes for the best cornering because it causes the front tires to really bite into the road and the soft rear tires will follow right along.
Honestly you're better off cutting a coil off your stock springs and running SLP bilstiens all around.
Too late. It is what it is. Besides, I've heard equally bad stories about people who have cut their stock springs. Even shops that specialize in suspension have to cut, install, measure, then remove, cut some more, etc.... Very rarely do they get it right the first time because it's not an exacting science. It's more like trial and error and if you don't get it right, you'll end up with an even more lopsided car than the Trans Am already is. (it's a well known fact that the 4th gen TAs sit lower on the passenger side by anywhere from 1/2" to 3/4". It's a design issue, and despite rumors to the contrary, it has nothing to do with bad suspension parts). By the way, before I lowered my car, I measured the gap from top dead center of the bottom of the fender to the top of the wheel. The drivers side sat exactly 1/2" higher than the passenger side. Once my new Eibach Sportliners & KYB shocks were installed, I did the same measurement and it had dropped by 1.825" on both sides. But as testament to the Sportliners, the offset from driver to passenger side hadn't changed one iota. It was still 1/2" higher on the driver's side. Believe it or not, I was actually happy that the new springs hadn't leveled out the car because that would have indicated that the springs weren't cut to the same height. And that would have caused me concern that Eibach's quality control wasn't real good.
You don't have to be tearing up a track to want significantly better ride, stability, feel, control and all around handling (and quality as well).
Welcome to LS1tech, Im assuming your a new Fbody owner as well? I assume this because I guess you haven't had time to search here to see the countless posts with guys having sagging problems with Eibachs on our cars. When someone says "Eibach sucks", they mean for our cars, not as a whole company. The sportlines are a perfect example of why they "suck". They drop the car so much its practically sitting on the bump stops, then combine that with a low-ish spring rate and you have yourself basically using your bump stops as the spring. You need suspension travel for your suspension to work properly and your car to truly handle well.
I can feel the front end traveling smoothly up and down as I drive, with absolutely no bottoming, so I know darn well they're not hitting the bump stops! And I did search extensively on this site before making my decision. No doubt there are better springs and shocks/struts out there. But if you're on a tight budget like me, you have two choices: (1) Don't do anything and just live with a car that looks like a cross between a sedan and a sport coupe or, (2) Do what you can afford to do to get the asthetics and adequate (not optimum) reliablility based on your driving habits. I'm easy on my car and so I see no reason for concern. As to the Sportliner series, I've also heard good things about them on this same website. That's why it was so frustrating for me because I ended up with a hodge-podge of opinions. It's also why I finally called the KYB factory and talked to their technical support folks about pairing their AGX adjustables with the Sportliner series. I was told point blank that their AGX adjustables aren't designed for the Sportliners, but I was also told that as long as I stay away from settings 1-3, I'll be okay. The tech rep I talked to suggested a minimum setting of 5, so I set them on 6 for added protection. But I didn't overdo it by setting them to 7 or 8 because I want adequate up and down travel of the piston (vibration damping) to prevent the welds on the shock from failing (see my comments below for why). I live in Arizona where the roads are in pretty decent shape, so chances of me hitting a pothole or some other object that would cause a sudden compression of the strut and bottoming is remote. So as long as I take care with the dips and speed bumps, I shouldn't ever damage the shocks. I have a strong suspicion that those who say their KYB AGX's broke, broke them by either accidentally jumping a curb, hitting a big pothole, etc... OR by setting them so high that they're practically riding on a solid link rather than a damper. Over time, that will cause the welds on the exterior of the shock to fatigue and eventually fail. I guess what I'm saying is that you have to find the sweet spot between preventing shock bottoming while still allowing adequate damping.
You are definitely in the minority then, either that or you have nothing to compare it to. You've also got taller, softer side walled tires than most run, which will definitely add cushyness.
Right now, I'm running Riken 245/50-16s on the front and Kuhmo 255/60-16s on the back. I pulled the 245/50s off the back and replaced them with the taller 255/60s to jack up the rear end and close the fender to tire gap. I'm very fond of the wedge shape (one reason I'm not a fan of the 5th Gen Camaros), and leaving the stock springs/shocks in place while putting taller tires on the rear was like putting high-heels on a sexy woman. It jacks up her a-- and makes her legs look sleeker.
Then I lowered the front end which makes those "heels" look even higher. But seriously, it also adds to improved handling and performance. By jacking up the back and lowering the front, I've altered the center of gravity forward where the steering is. And the fatter, softer tires on the back compensate to prevent the back end from fishtailing in a turn. That configuration makes for a good car to run in a slalom race. But I don't think it's my tires that are making the difference as far as ride quality goes. After reading just about every post on this site related to the Sportliners, it seems that the complaints are related to lowering of the rear-end. That's because the rear end of the f-body is light, and so that's the area that transmits the most vibration into the cockpit. So yes, I would agree that using Sportliners on the rear suspension would be a mistake. But the front is heavy enough that it tends to compress the springs and shocks and so dampens out road vibration a lot better. The downside to that is exactly what you mentioned earlier -- a risk of riding on the bump stops. But I believe I've mitigated that risk by cranking up the setting on the AGX to near max without overdoing it. After much thought, I decided not to crank it up to 7 or 8 because I didn't want to prevent shock bottoming to the point that I'm risking breaking a shock by riding on an almost solid link rather than a damper. With a 7 or 8 setting, when your car hits a big bump, instead of the piston dampening out the "WHAM", the "WHAM" is transmitted to the exterior of the shock. The exterior of the shocks have to take those punches which, over time, will cause hairline cracks on the shock welds. With repeated punches the shock welds will fail and the shock will come apart. If you think it corners on rails now you'd **** your pants in an Fbody with a good setup...
Maybe so, but only if the driver jacked up his rear end and put fat soft tires on the rear (to prevent skidding), and then lowered his front end using superior suspension parts. That, not lowering the entire car, makes for the best cornering because it causes the front tires to really bite into the road and the soft rear tires will follow right along.
Honestly you're better off cutting a coil off your stock springs and running SLP bilstiens all around.
Too late. It is what it is. Besides, I've heard equally bad stories about people who have cut their stock springs. Even shops that specialize in suspension have to cut, install, measure, then remove, cut some more, etc.... Very rarely do they get it right the first time because it's not an exacting science. It's more like trial and error and if you don't get it right, you'll end up with an even more lopsided car than the Trans Am already is. (it's a well known fact that the 4th gen TAs sit lower on the passenger side by anywhere from 1/2" to 3/4". It's a design issue, and despite rumors to the contrary, it has nothing to do with bad suspension parts). By the way, before I lowered my car, I measured the gap from top dead center of the bottom of the fender to the top of the wheel. The drivers side sat exactly 1/2" higher than the passenger side. Once my new Eibach Sportliners & KYB shocks were installed, I did the same measurement and it had dropped by 1.825" on both sides. But as testament to the Sportliners, the offset from driver to passenger side hadn't changed one iota. It was still 1/2" higher on the driver's side. Believe it or not, I was actually happy that the new springs hadn't leveled out the car because that would have indicated that the springs weren't cut to the same height. And that would have caused me concern that Eibach's quality control wasn't real good.
You don't have to be tearing up a track to want significantly better ride, stability, feel, control and all around handling (and quality as well).
