Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

I know that this subject has come up several times, but when I do come across threads that have to do what Im looking for, theres usually a novel to go with it! (no offense) I read it and read it, but still nothing ever gets through to me. I try and understand whats talked about, but maybe I just wont ever understand. I like my answers short and simple because if I get long and descriptive, then I start to get lost and confused! So heres my question...I want to get a set of LCAs and a PHB both in which they will be constructed of chromoly and adjustable. Im wanting to know what is the purpose of having single or double adjustments and what ends should I get for my car? The car is my daily driver, but when I finish my conversion (M6 to 200-R4), I plan to take it to the track at least a couple times a month. I wont mind a little noise, but I dont want to be cruising down the road squeeking and rattling as if something was wrong with my car. So far, I have rubber, poly, spherical, heim, and rod ends to choose from. If you could, please tell me what I should run and why but with a short answer because if you go too much into detail, then I will be totally lost and confused. I know that theres lots to know, but I just cant seem to catch on. Sorry for the long thread and for bringing up another one of these questions. I would really appreciate any help. Thanks again!

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Buy the G2 heim/poly LCA's from LG motorsports. They are the best compromise of noise and performance that you will find. (You wanted a short answer). The heim joints allow the axle to move correctly over bumps and the poly end helps keep things reasonably quiet. While you're at it, get the matching PHB. Just tell Lou that I sent you over....lol (and that I'll get my own ordered sooner or later).

There you go, short, sweet and simple. (At least I think so).

Kevin

Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

Hey Trackbird...thanks for the reply! I didnt mean to bash your long explanations, but I know for sure that they are very informative. As I was saying, I dont catch on when theres lots to read, so thats why I asked for a short simple answer. About the G2 LCAs...how does BMR and Spohn compare to G2 with the same ends? I ask that because Ill be running a Spohn torque arm and I was thinking of getting matching suspension, but if there is really a difference, then Ill go for the G2. Lastly, about the PHB, you said to get the matching one...with what ends? Should I get the LCAs and PHB adjustable and if so, with single or double adjustments? Thanks a lot buddy for all your help and Im pretty sure that you get tired of answering the same questions over and over!

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I understand about the explanations, we get a little in depth sometimes. I have BMR LCA's and PHB. They work well, but they "rattle". They rattle much worse than any other LCA's I've owned (I had set of Herb Adams heim/heim LCA's and PHB that were nearly as quiet as stock). So, if you don't mind "noise", they are pretty decent. I've had a few guys use Lou's stuff (LG's) and love it. So, I recommend the same for your car. LG's is a good compromise between noise and performance. I don't think you can go wrong with their parts.

Single adjustments are enough.

I'd get both as adjustable parts (LCA's and PHB).

Poly/Heim for the PHB (you can do poly/poly, if it adjusts, but I prefer one rod end on there to keep things moving as they should.

Hope that helps.

JimmyKash

ok, you want simplicity?

There are 2 types of ends:
Polyurethane and the Rod ends or aka Heim joints. Most manufacturers do some mixing n matching with one poly and one heim or you can get all poly or all heim. Ok so far?

Diff between poly and heim:
People's opinions will vary but the heims are better because there is no binding involved. The suspension can freely move because the rod end has a rotating ball. Also they are not as loud as people say they are anymore because manufacturers are now using quality rod ends.

Single and double adjustable:
single adjustable only allows you to adjust the suspension piece when it is OFF the car. A double adjustable can be adjusted while the piece is still ON the car

Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

Trackbird: Do you have any experience or feedback from anyone on the Spohn suspension? BMR and Spohn were my 2 choices and since you said that you already own BMR products and that theyre noisy, what do you think about Spohn? I already have a Spohn torque arm on its way and should be here by the end of the week, so sticking with all Spohn would be nice. (matching ) But if Spohn isnt any better than BMR or worse, then I could consider G2/LG. Also, you said do a combo with the PHB...heim/poly...where would each end go? Correct me if Im wrong, but I thought that a long time ago I read that you said that there isnt much movement within the PHB, so it really didnt matter about the ends. I dont know if thats entirely the exact quote, but it was something like that. Didnt mean to throw all of this out of whack, but I just want to clarify. As Jimmy Kash said, double adjustment can be performed when it is on the car and single adjustment only can be performed when off the car. So most likely I will go with double adjustments. I think that Im pretty sure on that unless someone gives me reason not to, then I will have major problems. Ive already decided on the TA with months of thinking, now a few more months of thinking, I might be able to decide on the PHB and LCAs. I think that Im set on the SFCs, but Im not sure on spending $275 on them. Anyhow, let me know what you think. Thanks

6']['9

iTrader: (2)

i have all spohn suspension your thread answered my ? that i just posted for thanks trackbird...if you have any ?'s on my setup you can post here or email me


jay

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I did say pretty much that. I told someone that if they needed to save a couple $$$, I'd do it by using a poly/poly PHB (one with adjustments). It dosen't see much rotation (just axle rotation from "launch"). I prefer rod ends (at least one per item poly/rod type), but a poly/poly PHB will work pretty well for general street use. So, I prefer at least one rod end (heim, etc), but you can use a poly/poly without too much problem (if any). I doubt most people will notice much difference (some may, but not many).

Did that clarify it at all?

As for spohn, I have no experience with them except a torque arm for a 3rd gen. It was well made, but I'm not sure of the quality of the rod end used on the arm, it seemed better than BMR, but I don't think it was a "$30 rod end" either. So, I really can't say....

Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

6']['9: What do you think of all your Spohn suspension? I saw all that you had of Spohn in your signature, can you tell me which ones they are? (adjustable, chromoly, ends, etc.) What problems if any do you have with any of the pieces? If you had to do it over again would you have gone with a different brand? Quality-welds, construction, finish, ends? Thanks

I see...yeah money isnt going to be that big of an issue for these mods, so spending a little extra on ends isnt that big of a deal. You say that you prefer a rod end at least on one side per item, is it really worth it on the PHB? If YOU were about to buy a set of Spohn LCAs and a PHB, tell me exactly how you would buy it? I think that question will make things a lot easier for the both of us that way we dont have to go back and forth with questions and asnwers. LOL Thanks

6']['9

iTrader: (2)

the spohn imo is better than the BMR i had on my previous the lca' & phr are dadj, poly ends not chrome moly , i havent had any problems with them, i would have liked to try the LG pieces but i gave these a try, i would have liked to try the poly/rod ends but since i live in the country i dont know how well they'll hold up to the dirt, since its real dusty.. other than that i have had no problems with any of the parts// im planning on ordering their sway bars pretty soon hope that helps...


jay

Larry

iTrader: (4)

If you get components with rod ends be sure they are the teflon lined and/or quality rod ends. I have a PA K member and A-arms. The rod ends they supply are garbage. Lots of noise unless I keep them lubricated.

Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

Do you know if Spohn uses quality ends? If not, can they be replaced with good ends? If so, where do I get them at and how much more am I looking to spend? How long do quality ends usually last? The better the ends are, the better they will perform and the quieter they will be? Thanks

DARK AGE 53

I'll make it as simple as I can, a friend of mine has the BMR LCA, adjustable PHB with poly/poly ends. He has well over 20K miles ( hard miles ) on them and they work great, I just installed BMR LCA poly/rubber and BMR poly panhard bar.

6']['9

iTrader: (2)

correct me if im wrong but i would assume ends are ends if they wear out you can always replace them right? so even if you purchase a polu/rod end lca then if you have any problem with them you can always contact the manufacturer and ask what options you have as far as replacing the ends as opposed to purchasing a new lca or phr

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Yes, you can replace the rod ends. Good rod ends are about $30 each, but they are easy enough to change.

Larry

iTrader: (4)

In my case with my A-arms, I contacted PA about my rods ends and they would not replace them. Even if they would, I'm still stuck with the cost of another alignment.

PA told me that their tubular K member and A-arms were for race only and I shouldn't be driving them on the street. Wish I had known that before purchasing them. I suppose their cheap rod ends will work fine as long as you don't drive far or get into any rain as in street driving. Mine started making nosie after only a couple hundred miles. They are for race only for sure.

Larry

iTrader: (4)

Here are some sources for rod ends. I had to replace one of my brand new rod ends on my PA control arms because it was too short and I could not get my alignment to specs. I bought a self lubricating Alinabal rod end from Motion Industries here in Houston.

http://www.aurorabearing.com/

http://www.alinabal.com/mtd/rodends.html

BADZ

iTrader: (5)

Check out the MADMAN GP on these parts...

Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

Trackbird...you said that you like one rod end per side per unit. What would give you reason to use 2 rod ends on both the LCAs and PHB? Is having 2 rod ends really necessary and if so, could you explain why? So basically there is only 3 ends for me to choose from: rubber, poly, or rod? There are other ones, but are just different names for a rod end. Im only trying to get this right...Ive asked several salespersons about what ends I should use and they tell me a rubber/poly combo with the rubber on the body and the poly on the rear end side. But then when I ask the same question here, I get poly/rod with the poly being on the body side and the rod end being on the rear end side. Id much rather listen to members on this board rather than a salesperson because all they are trying to do is make a sell. Dont get me wrong, some salespersons have knowledge about what they do or sell, but some really dont. I just want to know what exactly each ends do and what they are intended for. Each end has their own advantages and disadvantages, could you roughly explain. Thanks and sorry for bringing this up again, but I just wanted to clarify and understand. Just think, once I totally understand how this all works, there will be no more questions out of me that have to do with this topic! Man...I feel asking all these questions.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Deflection. Poly will give and it will eventually "cold flow" and become "deformed" (think of hitting lead with a hammer, it will dent). Heim joints don't have any of these problems, so, I prefer heim joints for both ends (I am currently building my own LCA's out of aluminum and a set out of steel and may be selling them soon....details will be on my website as I get the pictures and information completed).

Not necessary, one will do. 2 heims will eliminate the "cold flow" problem mentioned above.

Yup....

Heim joint, rod end, spherical bearing are all the same thing.

You probably told them you wanted them to be quiet as well. In order to avoid possible complaints, that is a safe recommendation.

That is a better choice, the best compromise of performance and noise is one of each.

Ok, If an LCA only moved up and down (like the hinge on a door) rubber or poly would be the perfect solution. But, since an LCA has to deal with a "twisting" motion it adds a second type of motion to the joint. So, here it goes:

Rubber:

Rubber allows some twisting to occur at the mouting point, for suspension such as ours that is a good thing. The bad thing is that the "softness" of the rubber (that allows "twisting") also allows the axle to move slightly forward and backwards.

Poly:

Poly will locate the axle forward and backward (fore and aft) but does not allow any (or much) twisting action (think of the door hinge again, only swings one way). And, poly will "cold flow" as we discussed above.

Heim joints:

Heim joints will allow the "twisting action" and work as a hinge. This allows proper suspension travel. The down side is they make noise (poly and rubber will be quieter, they are softer and transmit less noise).

That is the answer in a nutshell (and greatly over simplified), I know you don't like long answers, so I'll start with that one.