How well can a 4th gen be made to handle?
08-12-2008, 07:25 AM
#21
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Good enough to outrun any other mass-produced street car in the world, including many purpose-built racecars.
I've got full suspension, but it's stuff that you can buy or make easily. I've got good brakes. Stock engine and drivetrain. Stock aero, except for a rear wing. I've lightened the car down to 2900lbs by gutting it. I've heard of guys getting 3000lbs in a hardtop Camaro and still having an interior.
I have yet to meet a street-legal car that can keep up with me on the track (road course). Viper, C6 Z06, Enzo, Maseratti, Porsche GT3 - nothing. And, more than a few racecars - Viper Comp Coupe, GT1 Vette, C5R, GT1 Viper, Ferrari Challenge car. Not bragging, because I've also gotten beat by a few - Porsche GT3 Cup car, Viper Comp Coupe, etc.
Race tires, suspension, reduced weight and brakes will get you 90% of the way. Additional power is NOT necessary. When I race the Vipers, they have about 200whp on me (I make probably 360rwhp). They pull about 3-4 carlengths on me down the front straight (1/3 mile). But, because I'm lighter and can out brake and out turn them, I more than make up for it everywhere else.
I've got full suspension, but it's stuff that you can buy or make easily. I've got good brakes. Stock engine and drivetrain. Stock aero, except for a rear wing. I've lightened the car down to 2900lbs by gutting it. I've heard of guys getting 3000lbs in a hardtop Camaro and still having an interior.
I have yet to meet a street-legal car that can keep up with me on the track (road course). Viper, C6 Z06, Enzo, Maseratti, Porsche GT3 - nothing. And, more than a few racecars - Viper Comp Coupe, GT1 Vette, C5R, GT1 Viper, Ferrari Challenge car. Not bragging, because I've also gotten beat by a few - Porsche GT3 Cup car, Viper Comp Coupe, etc.
Race tires, suspension, reduced weight and brakes will get you 90% of the way. Additional power is NOT necessary. When I race the Vipers, they have about 200whp on me (I make probably 360rwhp). They pull about 3-4 carlengths on me down the front straight (1/3 mile). But, because I'm lighter and can out brake and out turn them, I more than make up for it everywhere else.
not calling total bullshit on you, but an enzo? its got to be close in weight, more then double the horsepower, and tires and brakes alone must cost what your car is worth. and if you have a stock motor/drivetrain, then you dont have 360 rwhp. 305-315, yeah. plus i saw one of your videos (older one when you still had a dash) and it sure didnt sound stock.
and yeah hes fully caged.
08-13-2008, 11:16 AM
#22
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Question: does your car have a cage or roll-bar??? That's damn light!! 
Reason I ask is because I just recently picked up a '93 Z28 that's been purpose-built for road racing. It's completely gutted, as in no interior, stereo/speakers, etc., no HVAC, ABS/cruise modules removed, no side glass, etc. On top of that, it has some serious weight-savers, ie: fibreglass hood, lexan front & rear windows, and anywhere possible, things like the doors & rear hatch were gutted and stripped of any excess material. The only additional weight is the roll cage. Sum it up to say, it's a race car!
..... but I haven't got it weighed yet, so I'm darn curious what it's going to be. I'd love to see it come in at less than 3000 lbs!!
Reason I ask is because I just recently picked up a '93 Z28 that's been purpose-built for road racing. It's completely gutted, as in no interior, stereo/speakers, etc., no HVAC, ABS/cruise modules removed, no side glass, etc. On top of that, it has some serious weight-savers, ie: fibreglass hood, lexan front & rear windows, and anywhere possible, things like the doors & rear hatch were gutted and stripped of any excess material. The only additional weight is the roll cage. Sum it up to say, it's a race car!
..... but I haven't got it weighed yet, so I'm darn curious what it's going to be. I'd love to see it come in at less than 3000 lbs!!
Yeah, I've got a full cage in it. In fact, my cage is a bit heavier than most, being 1.625x.134 instead of the minimum 1.75x.80. I've still got factory glass front and rear. If yours is as gutted as you say, you'll be under 2900. Iv'e still got some weight to remove in the form of exhaust hangers, heat shields, and some redundant sheet metal. Just too lazy in this 90* heat!
08-13-2008, 11:26 AM
#23
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not calling total bullshit on you, but an enzo? its got to be close in weight, more then double the horsepower, and tires and brakes alone must cost what your car is worth. and if you have a stock motor/drivetrain, then you dont have 360 rwhp. 305-315, yeah. plus i saw one of your videos (older one when you still had a dash) and it sure didnt sound stock.
and yeah hes fully caged.
and yeah hes fully caged.
First off, race tires make a huge difference. I know it's kind of apples to oranges to be comparing a car on race tires to a car on street tires, but he does have a $230k price tag advantage on me!
Secondly, I'm probably driving my car harder than him. After all, if I put my car into a wall, I'm out about $25k. If he puts it into a wall, he's got some real financial problems!
Lastly, my brakes probably are equal or superior to his. It's all a matter of swept area and pad compound. Our swept area (pad size) is about the same, but mine is a race-only compound that is extremely fade resistant. His is an agressive street compound, but still only street. Plus, I've got the race tires, so I can get more of that braking power to the street before locking them up.
As for the power, I'm just estimating my rwhp and rwtq. I dynoed the car when it was almost completely stock (all it had was a pulley and filter/lid). It made 322 rwhp and 352 rwtq. This was on a Mustang dyno, not a Dynotech. Then, I added an LS6 intake, full-length headers, no cats/mufflers, removed AC, lightened the rear brake rotors, got rid of all emissions stuff, and put a (conservative) race tune in it.
From what I've read, intake/exhaust usually nets between 25-30rwhp/rwtq. I figure that, with those mods plus the other stuff I've done, I have at least 30 more. I may have more than that, but I haven't put it on a dyno in years.
08-13-2008, 12:02 PM
#24
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sounds like fun... now only to find one that I want. I really want a ws6 this time... had a z28 last time that looked great when I was done with it but have always admired the t/a looks.
08-13-2008, 01:48 PM
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i know what tires and pads can do, i race also. and i was also going to point out that the enzo driver probably wasnt running 100%. ive seen porsche clubs run where most drivers act like theyre on a sunday cruise.
from your motor, id guess around 330rwhp. i have alot of bolt ons, tune, functional ram air, headers with hi-flow cats, etc etc, and i only make 356 and 370 at the wheels.
anyway. post a video of your enzo race.
from your motor, id guess around 330rwhp. i have alot of bolt ons, tune, functional ram air, headers with hi-flow cats, etc etc, and i only make 356 and 370 at the wheels.
anyway. post a video of your enzo race.
08-13-2008, 02:24 PM
#26
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Sorry - no proof! I don't have a video camera in my car - that video is from when one of my friend's rode shotgun.
But, I am curious why you think my car won't make 350hp at the wheels? I've got all the bolt-ons, tune, sealed ram-air box and pathway, 1.75" LT headers dumping right under the car (headers with 3" turnouts), no cats. Basically, the same as you, and you're making 356/370. I already know that I make 322/352. So, why is it unreasonable for me to expect to make 350/380?
BTW, I'm pretty sure that he wasn't 100%. In fact, I'm pretty sure that none of the Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches (except the GT3 cup car that races with us) and all the other $100+k cars aren't going full out.
However, I will say that I think it'd be close if he were running full out. By way of comparisson on the Top Gear track (I know it's not the best thing, but it's the only track I could find results for both cars on), the Enzo beat the C6 Z06 by 3 seconds. That's a 1:19 to a 1:22.
No Problem Raceway (where I race) is a 1:20 track. My best time is 1:19.087 (http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=767906). I ran a Z06 there and was about 2 seconds per lap faster. Afterwards, I rode with and talked with the guy. He was a competent driver, and was giving it all he had. It was enough to make me pucker up, at the very least.
Anyway, to answer the original question of the post - these cars can be made VERY fast, if you want to spend a little money, a lot of time, and be patient.
But, I am curious why you think my car won't make 350hp at the wheels? I've got all the bolt-ons, tune, sealed ram-air box and pathway, 1.75" LT headers dumping right under the car (headers with 3" turnouts), no cats. Basically, the same as you, and you're making 356/370. I already know that I make 322/352. So, why is it unreasonable for me to expect to make 350/380?
BTW, I'm pretty sure that he wasn't 100%. In fact, I'm pretty sure that none of the Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches (except the GT3 cup car that races with us) and all the other $100+k cars aren't going full out.
However, I will say that I think it'd be close if he were running full out. By way of comparisson on the Top Gear track (I know it's not the best thing, but it's the only track I could find results for both cars on), the Enzo beat the C6 Z06 by 3 seconds. That's a 1:19 to a 1:22.
No Problem Raceway (where I race) is a 1:20 track. My best time is 1:19.087 (http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=767906). I ran a Z06 there and was about 2 seconds per lap faster. Afterwards, I rode with and talked with the guy. He was a competent driver, and was giving it all he had. It was enough to make me pucker up, at the very least.
Anyway, to answer the original question of the post - these cars can be made VERY fast, if you want to spend a little money, a lot of time, and be patient.
08-13-2008, 02:41 PM
#27
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Yeah power all depends from car to car. With full exhaust and a tune, 350 rwhp is doable in these cars. A lot of it has to do with what shape the engine is in. I'll leave that to the other thread sections though
08-14-2008, 08:56 AM
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Yeah, I've got a full cage in it. In fact, my cage is a bit heavier than most, being 1.625x.134 instead of the minimum 1.75x.80. I've still got factory glass front and rear. If yours is as gutted as you say, you'll be under 2900. Iv'e still got some weight to remove in the form of exhaust hangers, heat shields, and some redundant sheet metal. Just too lazy in this 90* heat!
First track weekend with it will be in 2 weeks. I'm getting psyched already!
