not in a car, im using the same logic from drag racing motorcycles in the 1/8th..... many times on a 600cc i would money race 1000cc & up bikes and win simply because i was able to use every hp that 600 put out

most people are thinking that the higher hp bike will win but you will either spin or lift...... so you cant even use the power til the 1/8th is almost already up......


with that same thought process and racing a zx-10 for the past couple of years, it makes me think that having a 2,000hp car in the mile is worthless if you're only using the 2,000hp at the very end for just a second or two

just like a 1,000cc bike in the 1/8th...... yeah its got a ton of power but you gotta baby it til you're up to speed enough to really lay into it


that being said, im assuming that a 4 wheel drive car with 1,500hp would be able to utilize all the power sooner and for a longer period of time

and a 2 wheel drive car with 2,000hp wouldn't be able to use all of its power til the very end and only for a very short period of time



maybe my logic is wrong but i hope i explained my point of view to where you understand where im coming from






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You know that they say about assuming.

 

Yes, your logic is wrong. Nothing remotely close to drag racing. Those 1500 hp cars are using all of their power on the big end, fighting wind resistance. The analogy with the 600cc vs 1000cc isn't comparable in this case. The only way to overcome wind resistance at those speeds is by improving aero and adding power.

 

No this would be the king of the mile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_ZJuSS2s7k

 

This is where running the mile will give you a better perspective of things. Use the LMR 244mph run for example. It took them about 25 seconds to run the mile. The first 10 seconds were spent carefully sliding to the end of the 1/4 mile where their speed was between 140-150mph. The last 15 seconds were for the remaining 3/4 of a mile where they were pretty close to being able to lay 100% of the power down. In comparison, most stock 1 liter bikes hit their top speed by the 1/2 mile mark and don't climb any more. They need nitrous or forced induction to run higher speeds. As Nine Ball said, a perfect start with no tire spin actually makes little difference in top speed. It only gets you to the quarter mile quicker. You might run 230 mph in 22 seconds in an AWD car with perfect traction whereas the same vehicle running RWD might take 25 seconds to reach the same speed. The difference is, one reached the 1/4 mile in 8 or 9 seconds while the other reached it in 11or 12 seconds. The top speed at the end of the mile is really more of a product of what happens AFTER the quarter mile. It's HP vs wind resistance, period!

 

I'll bet those liter bikes trapped higher than you in the 1/8th, and speed is what counts in the mile...

 

They have more than just DYNO Bragging rights last time I checked...
http://www.texasmile.net/results.php

 

Beat me to it. No doubt they had higher traps.

 

i dont think im wrong, i think their 240mph camaro could have went many more mph faster.......


they had the power to go faster

they didnt have the traction to go faster


in the video you can tell the driver is steering the car with the gas pedal..... and at the end of the video you dont see the throttle getting really laid into it until the very end and thats IF he was able to give it 100% throttle...... and IF they were able to give 100% throttle its only because they had to wait til 200mph in order to get enough traction to do so



i understand wind resistance, trust me...... i've been 180+ on bikes daily and i know what happens if you try to sit up at those speeds


but LMR's main problem is traction, they make beastly amounts of power...... and think i actually remember reading that they had to turn down their boost because they made too much power....... that logic right there proves my theory and disproves yours, which is they cant use all their power because of traction and yours is they are using all their power they just have too much wind resistence


their problem isnt that they are reaching an equal between their power and the wind resistance...... their problem is traction


if you really think they are being able to use all of their power then it would be safe to say that if they built a car with 2500rwhp and which im sure LMR is capable of doing, but going by your logic they would go faster...... i dont think so, i think they are going as fast as their traction can allow them.....

watching the 1500rwhp hennessey viper videos they are saying @ 150mph if they give it full throttle the tires spin...... they have to get around 200mph in order to give it full throttle....... that being said that means they cant use full throttle til the race is almost over..... which is the same for a 1,000cc bike in the 1/8th.....



and thats simply my main logic



i just simply saw the awd GTR and i think a good awd car would get more traction in order to get up to speed sooner, in order to give full throttle longer

here i found this
listen from 1:50 to 2:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0AJLWH_p_g










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You really do not know what you are talking about...

 

but powell he writes out several long drawn out paragraphs that has to count for something haha

 

actually its very simple, you get more traction with 4wd than you do with 2wd...... thats mainly what im trying to say


the other thing im trying to say is that many of the cars aren't able go faster BECAUSE they cant use all of their power because of traction issues


if you watch the above video HENNESSEY themselves are using the exact SAME logic as i am trying to make


so if im wrong than HENNESSEY is wrong..... and i dont think they're wrong






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You are just wrong. No matter how much you type. Hard launches for 1-mile runs don't mean ****. The first 1/4-mile doesn't mean ****. These faster cars are already near 200 mph near the 1/4-mile mark. By 1/2-mile, they have traction. The cars also have boost-by-gear, so they can maintain traction. It isn't 1500 rwhp in 1-4 gears. It is as much as the tires can handle for each gear.

 

we can agree to disagree, im not butt hurt

and i'll be the first to admit i can be a little hard headed at times..... well my wife says all the time.......



but when i hear hennessey guys talking about trying to make a record for the mile in their vipers and they say that they are pulling out boost and retarding the timing in order to get traction to run faster

that tells me that power isnt the issue, its traction


why else would you go for a record and tune it down to go faster???



now i agree with your logic with less hp cars...... but when you get up to 1800rwhp cars like that nasty LMR camaro....... i think the problem is traction, not power





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It's not about launches... Remember my tuner and personal friend held the record for a few years (resetting it each time). He is the one writing the tune behind all of it. Launching is not what makes you set records. And if you think AWD helps with traction you have never had a high HP AWD car. Remember my car WAS AWD, but was removed at the mid 800hp level because it was pointless at certain speeds. And you can't just throw drag radials on it because well you saw what happened on multiple cars...

And FYI there was traction issues... Notice the post on 6speed by one of the AMS Guys...

 

If traction was more important than power, Hennessey would not have added 300hp in their attempt to go faster at Maxton. They would have added traction instead. The reference to not adding more boost because they were at the traction limit already was more of a reference to traction in the first 1/4 mile. If you watch their videos, they're pretty much flat-footing it after the 1/4. They pulled boost and retarded timing because their intercooler and intake piping were much more efficient than before. Savvy racers of the mile know that you can't get greedy with boost and timing. Kabooms happen too easily when you're WOT for over 25 seconds. Savvy racers also know you never try to run over 1000rwhp in 5th gear on a Tremec 6 speed trans. This is why the LMR Corvette and Camaro run the mile in 4 gears. If Hennessey had experienced a clean run without tranny issues, they would have gone faster with the extra 300 hp. I guarantee you if they had a run without breakage, they would have turned up the boost in an attempt to go faster. If you're racing for 2 or 3 days, you don't set it on kill for the first run. You run on low boost and datalog. Turn up the boost and datalog. More power equals more trap speed.

In your example, the Nissan GT-R would probably have the quickest 1/4 mile time, but ET doesn't mean squat in a race for trap speed. Not in a standing mile. It's what you do AFTER the 1/4 mile that counts. Try racing something with a lot of power at the Texas Mile before you argue with seasoned racers who have. Reality trumps theory every time.

 

Whats happened when putting on drag radials?

I agree that it doesn't matter what you dyno but what you can put to the ground. I have a camaro that dyno'd 330 but could run high 11's. As I added more power I didn't actually go faster but had to re-adjust my whole setup because of traction issues.

 

Well LMR had a tire blow out in the Camaro. There was another shops Turbo Vette that had one explode as well (and roll). There are a few others that have as well. These are 220+mph cars with 1200+rwhp. Things are different when you are at that level compared to maybe doing 160mph in the standing mile.

 

GTR= aerodynamics of a brick, will not contend for the mile. They are not famous for top end anyway, just good launches.

ART Viper or LMR will take the record next time, if the weather conditions cooperate...

 

MT even said to not use their DRs for sustained 200+ mph. I think LMR posted the Hoosier R6s are supposed to be swapped after 5-6 runs also. Gets very $$$$.