Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

LOL @ Neil.

Neil, the only reason you bought the LT1 because it was CHEAP. Back when you bought that car LS1s were still $15K+. Given that LS1s can be bought very cheaply now (probably cheaper than you paid for your LT1), the LT1s don't come off as a screaming deal anymore.

Also, you rarely even drive your T/A. That would explain why your opti never goes out. They don't just fail sitting motionless.

Personally, I could care less about the opti arguments. I just know which engine is easier to work on, makes more power, and has better reliability and street manners.

crAzy95Z28

iTrader: (3)

my LT1 has never stranded me at all..

i get on it at least 10 times a day and it has 112k miles on it!

no oil leaks or nothing. never had a waterpump go out!

repalced my optispark with a dynaspark.

and LT1 still are better cars...

show me a LS1 that has made it past 160k miles without rebuilding the engine or something?

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

if any of you guys are getting to 160K miles with a performance V8 without needing a rebuild, all I have to say is you must drive like a grandma. Try taching it past 2K once in a while, its fun!

BizZzatch350

iTrader: (33)

It wasnt exactly cheap, LT1s back then still cost any where from $7-15K depending, mines was $9.2K, with 41K miles on the ticker.

crAzy95Z28

iTrader: (3)

i also belive the LT1's can handle more nitrous than a LS1....

ive been through 10 bottles 3 being 150 shot and the rest being 100 shot and ive had no problems so far. plus its a wetshot!

CRAGER

Ok, how about changing a cam in an LT1 car vs an LS1 car?

What does your LT1 heads flow? lol

What kind of power will you make with a 383ci LT1 or even 396ci LT1? About the same as a heads/cam LS1.

Spray on an LT1 vs LS1, sure iron blocks are stronger, but I'd rather have a 408ci LS1 iron block anyday over LT1.

Peace,
Craig.

BizZzatch350

iTrader: (33)

Thats a bad argument because with an LT1, it still is a SBC, it can get a whole lot nastier than a heads cam LS1 with the right person building it. Plenty in the bottom 10s and 9s using GM casted LT1 heads. When you start dealingw with after market headed LT1, they get nasty really quick. Couple folks have made well in to the 500s at the back tires. Once you through in stroker any SBC any thing, the argument is lost, unless its a 305 There some folks with a lot of money, who have built some disgusting stroker LT1 cars, so they arent all destined to make heads/cam LS1 numbers. many have broken in to the 600s on engine dynos, they ahve the potential like you said, even on motor. Its a SBC

CRAGER

I'll argue a little more later when I'm off work! lol

But here's another thread:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ight=head+flow

Peace,
Craig.

BizZzatch350

iTrader: (33)

LS1s newer and maked 50 more out the box, but you can make a stroker LT1 run a lot better that a h/c LS1. No point in comparing flow numbers from a 23* SBC Head to a 18* head, 18* will always flow better. Just a given, but you can convert SBC headsa there are a quite of few choices there. Look at N20 Dave making 750HP with a 396 sb2.2 headed LT1. But once you start tearing in to motor and building strokers, it just isnt comparable any more. Thats all I'm saying, theres litle baby cube SBF 306s in the 9s. Alls stroker stuff comes down to is who ever has the money to invest it in to a set up and how well the rest of the cars set up

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Neil, just buy an LS1 and be happy. If you paid 9.2K for that car in 1999, you should be able to afford a $6K running LS1 now

longrange4u

iTrader: (2)

LOL you guys are funny.... its like reading a 5.0 vs LS1 thread

LS1x2

iTrader: (11)

There's alot of bias in this post. I've owned both. Which one I would buy now would depend on where I ultimately wanted to end up with it after modding. Of course price has to come into play somewhere.

If you aren't even going to dip into the motor and will just be doing bolt ons get the ls1. If you are going to racing alot and rebuilding motors you have alot more to consider.

Clutches are pieces of **** in ls1 cars so if you are gonna beat on the car be ready to cough up some cash for a new clutch often.

meangreen94z

Hmm I have over 170,000 miles on my LT1. 2k rpm huh? I took it to MTI a couple years ago for a dyno day and they couldnt believe(after they bounced off of it) I had the rev limiter set at 6900rpm( with stock valvetrain). I've gone through 4 clutches in the 80k miles I've owned it(granted two were junk Mcleod units and one was the original). The car has made several 1000 mile trips this year, started up in -30* like it was 70*(while I was in Wyoming). Yet consumes absolutely NO oil, has NO piston slap, NO knocking, NO failing oil pumps, NO bent pushrods, NO broken valves spring, etc. etc. I've gone through what? one opti when the waterpump went out at 120k. The car has not given me a problem since(other than wear items).

BizZzatch350

iTrader: (33)

hahahah no way man,you know first hand what happens when these cars get older with the Formula you had! Car ran raped and LS1s a good motor but the rest of the car aint built any better than any other 4th gen they ever built, I see the same crap going wrong, no more of that. If they still built an F-body, I know I would have sold the LT1 for a new one, even if it was still a 4th gen. I like the cars but like you said, time for some thing I didnt want to touch or mod and just drive point A to b

meangreen94z

Funny Ed Wright was able to make 508rwhp(through a TH400 and 9inch rear) and ran a 10.26 NA with LT4 heads flowing 270cfm. If he was running a T56 like you he'd be putting down more power than your 427 with his little 383. Steve Quinn was making 675fwhp and ran a 9.7 NA with LT1 heads flowing 290-300cfm on his 370ci LT1.Theres several other examples out there. Theres more to a setup than just flow numbers/ cubic inches.

Ever hear of AFR heads? The 227cc and 215RR heads are capable of flowing LS1 numbers(320-340+cfm). Thats not even taking into account more exotic stuff like the Arao 32 valve LT1 heads(390-400+cfm) or any one of the endless SBC heads you can bolt onto an LT1(granted they have to be converted to reverse flow cooling). Joe Overton made 590rwhp(through a TH400 and 9 inch rear) and ran a 9.36 with AFR 227cc's. He'll be making even more power with his 15* SBC heads. Again theres several other examples.

Parts are far cheaper on an LT1. For the price of a forged LS1 crank, you can buy a complete forged rotating assembly and still have money left over for a cam, etc.. You can pick a complete used LT1 for next to nothing($300) compared to an LS1($1500+)

Big Rick made 1240rwhp(1500+fwhp) with the LT1 block that came with his car. I've personally never seen an LS1 come anywhere close to that(the factory block is good to what? 850rwhp?). I dont really consider an LQ9 or C5R block to be a true LS1. Just as if I converted LT1 heads to work with a dart block(hey they're both SBC right?) you wouldnt consider it to be an LT1.

Again to each his own

CrawlinWS6

iTrader: (41)

The Ls1 is a bad *** motor. I would buy the Ls1 just because of that. However, that looks like one sweet lt1. I usually don't care for 3rd gen. But there are a few 3rd t/a that will turn my head. The LT1 could be a better sleeper if you are going that route. I personally would get the Ls1. and throw a new hood on, call it a day. you could spend the money you would of saved on the lt1 to meet the performance of the ls1. Could be alot cheaper if you just hook up a bottle. Either way, they are both bad *** cars, and not no ford pos.

BizZzatch350

iTrader: (33)

thats the spirit, lets not hate on each other vent the anger to the blue oval boys.

CRAGER

Oil is not really a problem, like lets say uh optispark.
Failed oil pumps were rare, the few that had them were the older LS1's.
Piston slap, knock? Please, thats nothing.
Bent pushrods were from bad drivers hitting the wrong gears, also a safe guard, most guy replace them anyway. Broken valves? Never really heard that too often...and valve springs??? Is all your info from these failed parts from about 5-6 years ago when the LS1's were fairly new grounds that were being broken? lol

But yes the LS1 do have flaws, its not perfect by any means, and LT1's paved the way for LS1's.


Peace,
Craig.

meangreen94z

Everything I listed were things that occured to people I knew(either personally from Houston-f-body or elsewhere). From what I've seen the oil consumption and piston slap issues were common all the way through '04, and I've heard more than once of it requiring an engine teardown .There were also issues with the LS1 T-56 locking into a gear, something I NEVER heard of with the LT1 T56. Yeah these problems may not occur on EVERY ls1, but not every optispark fails like you say.

CRAGER

Ok, do you know what my cam spec's are? Do you know what my compression is? For a 383 LT1 to make that power had to have some serious compression and solid roller cam.
But funny, I do know first hand some guys with 383 & 396 LT1's. And the rwhp AND ET's are about the same as heads/cam LS1's. Now you will have your not stock bottom end LS1's with more compression even faster but I am talking about stock bottom end LS1 heads/cam vs 383 or 396 LT1's.

Like I SAID earlier, when you start digging DEEP into the LT1's will they make some power, just like ANY other motor out there be it Chevy, Ford, etc...
Stock Lt1 bore and stroke vs stock LS1 bore and stroke the LS1 wins HANDS DOWN!

Who has not heard of them?
At what lift are you talking about do they hit that cfm you're talking about. Also the max cfm is not everything, just like hp/tq its under the "curve" the matter on the flowbench test.
How much do they cost for LT1's? I don't even know. Do they come fully dressed, and what degree are the heads?
Another question about them LT1 heads. How much can you get the stock heads to flow?...vs having to buy these AFR heads.

You're right about the price, but how long has the LT1 motor been around. Thats why, but yes you are right. But what is cheaper, or "far" cheaper as you put it? Everything around the motor like chasis stuff is just a little bit, its the same body.

I guess you have not seen to many "big dogs" dyno days. How about WormBoy just a few days ago at G-Force. Why don't you poke around and search to find out what he made. How about Harlan? You think his times were from a running start? He's not to far behind Big Rick, and was faster last year at Thunder Shootout.

And yes I still consider the C5R LS1, because it IS based after the LS1 motor. Just like the cast iron 408ci LS1, based on the LS1 as well. I'll still call it for what it is but its based after it, not like the C5R mirrors the LT1 in any way shape or form.

Yup, to each his own.


Peace,
Craig.