97 WS6 or 98 Trans Am ?
08-11-2005, 11:45 PM
#61
((((((Administrator))))))
Originally Posted by meangreen94z
Everything I listed were things that occured to people I knew(either personally from Houston-f-body or elsewhere). From what I've seen the oil consumption and piston slap issues were common all the way through '04, and I've heard more than once of it requiring an engine teardown .There were also issues with the LS1 T-56 locking into a gear, something I NEVER heard of with the LT1 T56. Yeah these problems may not occur on EVERY ls1, but not every optispark fails like you say.
Thats the most you'll hear about LS1's. The other issues are rare, and depends on who owns these cars and how they treat them.
Peace,
Craig.
08-11-2005, 11:49 PM
#62
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 3,215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bizzzatch350
Eithers a nice car, get which ever one you like more
Great to know how you feel
Great to know how you feel
To each his own..... So what did you end up getting.....????? I bet he got the LS1......
08-12-2005, 12:44 AM
#63
Originally Posted by Bizzzatch350
I have nothing against you either, far as using Joe as for any sort of referance though for any thing is a bit sketchy, I dont think that would hold up in any court, but hey hes your people now, I can safley say Lt1 folk no longer claim that one
yes they do sound great but honestly are a paint to mess with. 
broken valve springs, broken pistons oil leaks ,intake leaks dying gm opti sparks. and dead water pumps oh yea the dyna spark dont get me started i had one. and as far as half *** installs i am one of top notch work. but lets look at on the other side of the coin.ls1 has a lot of pluses. 2 bolt main in the lt1 vs 6 bolt in ls1= less cap walk to non existent. bolts per cylinder on the heads you say ls1s burn oil. they do but its an easy fix 
as far as the designing and engineering the ls1 no doubt is far more advanced. o rings and machined grooves are far better than paper and cork gaskets . and on the ignition side its not even really worth comparing the coil recharge rate is better as well. no need for msd coils for that matter. now you may say the lt1 may feel more powerful. yes it does but its short lived. they get asthmatic at about 4500 rpm. but hey if you still got arguement then keep on with it. but dont take it personal neil ok?
08-12-2005, 12:59 AM
#64
Launching!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CRAGER
Ok, do you know what my cam spec's are? Do you know what my compression is? For a 383 LT1 to make that power had to have some serious compression and solid roller cam.
But funny, I do know first hand some guys with 383 & 396 LT1's. And the rwhp AND ET's are about the same as heads/cam LS1's. Now you will have your not stock bottom end LS1's with more compression even faster but I am talking about stock bottom end LS1 heads/cam vs 383 or 396 LT1's.
Like I SAID earlier, when you start digging DEEP into the LT1's will they make some power, just like ANY other motor out there be it Chevy, Ford, etc...
Stock Lt1 bore and stroke vs stock LS1 bore and stroke the LS1 wins HANDS DOWN!
Who has not heard of them?
At what lift are you talking about do they hit that cfm you're talking about. Also the max cfm is not everything, just like hp/tq its under the "curve" the matter on the flowbench test.
How much do they cost for LT1's? I don't even know. Do they come fully dressed, and what degree are the heads?
Another question about them LT1 heads. How much can you get the stock heads to flow?...vs having to buy these AFR heads.
You're right about the price, but how long has the LT1 motor been around. Thats why, but yes you are right. But what is cheaper, or "far" cheaper as you put it? Everything around the motor like chasis stuff is just a little bit, its the same body.
I guess you have not seen to many "big dogs" dyno days. How about WormBoy just a few days ago at G-Force. Why don't you poke around and search to find out what he made. How about Harlan? You think his times were from a running start? He's not to far behind Big Rick, and was faster last year at Thunder Shootout.
And yes I still consider the C5R LS1, because it IS based after the LS1 motor. Just like the cast iron 408ci LS1, based on the LS1 as well. I'll still call it for what it is but its based after it, not like the C5R mirrors the LT1 in any way shape or form.
Yup, to each his own.
Peace,
Craig.
But funny, I do know first hand some guys with 383 & 396 LT1's. And the rwhp AND ET's are about the same as heads/cam LS1's. Now you will have your not stock bottom end LS1's with more compression even faster but I am talking about stock bottom end LS1 heads/cam vs 383 or 396 LT1's.
Like I SAID earlier, when you start digging DEEP into the LT1's will they make some power, just like ANY other motor out there be it Chevy, Ford, etc...
Stock Lt1 bore and stroke vs stock LS1 bore and stroke the LS1 wins HANDS DOWN!
Who has not heard of them?
At what lift are you talking about do they hit that cfm you're talking about. Also the max cfm is not everything, just like hp/tq its under the "curve" the matter on the flowbench test.
How much do they cost for LT1's? I don't even know. Do they come fully dressed, and what degree are the heads?
Another question about them LT1 heads. How much can you get the stock heads to flow?...vs having to buy these AFR heads.
You're right about the price, but how long has the LT1 motor been around. Thats why, but yes you are right. But what is cheaper, or "far" cheaper as you put it? Everything around the motor like chasis stuff is just a little bit, its the same body.
I guess you have not seen to many "big dogs" dyno days. How about WormBoy just a few days ago at G-Force. Why don't you poke around and search to find out what he made. How about Harlan? You think his times were from a running start? He's not to far behind Big Rick, and was faster last year at Thunder Shootout.
And yes I still consider the C5R LS1, because it IS based after the LS1 motor. Just like the cast iron 408ci LS1, based on the LS1 as well. I'll still call it for what it is but its based after it, not like the C5R mirrors the LT1 in any way shape or form.
Yup, to each his own.
Peace,
Craig.
No I dont know your cam specs. Im not sure on the comp of his engine, but I doubt its higher than 13:1(if that), as he still uses the stock pcm and claims its streetable(actually he claims its "street legal""). Oh and I was wrong, he still uses a 4l60E w/ a moser 12 bolt, not a TH400/9inch.
As far as AFR's, the competition package 215rr(23* head) flow out of the box(according to AFR w/ a 1 7/8 pipe and 4.125 bore ):
.200: INT:141cfm EXH:112cfm
.300: 210,150
.400 264,190
.500 298,207
.550 310, 213
.600 318,220
.650 320,225
.700 325, 230
AFR claims about 310cfm out of the box for the competition 227cc heads(23* heads), granted both of these numbers were claims made for out of the box. Big Ricks 215rr heads on his 398LT1 flowed around 340cfm with some work done to them. Joe Overtons 227cc heads flowed over 330cfm with work done to them. The AFR 227cc heads are available bare or assembled, and depending on the port work the price varies, but an assembled competition set goes for around $3k. The 215 Raised Runner heads are a race head and are a bit more, an assembled set of competition ported heads goes for around $5k, although you can get a bare unported set for a little over $2k if I remember correctly. AFR also produces other heads as well for the LT1(180cc,195cc,210cc,and 220cc heads as well) which are a bit more affordable.
As far as factory LT1 heads, from what I've heard with quite a bit of work done to them you might be able to get 310cfm out of them. Definitely not the greatest head in the world, but not necessarily the worst.
Im not familiar with what they dynoed, I dont keep up on this stuff as much as I used to. As far as Big Rick he ran that 8.08 at 172 on around 20psi if I remember correctly(on bad track conditions at that), and dynoed the 1240rwhp at 30psi. So the car still had quite a bit left to go before he sold the engine. Hopefully he'll put that 385 LT1 he just bought to use.
As far as the block, really it wouldnt make a difference to me. Harlan ran an 8.2x w/ an LS6 block, so they're a capable engine. But I dont see how you can claim a block/engine never offered in the 4th gen as an LS1, and there for the LS1(which the LQ9 is not) is superior to the LT1. The LT1/LT4 both were offered in a 4th gen at one point from GM. My point was I could put a SBC based block in a 4th gen, the rotating assembly is interchangeable, the head bolt pattern is the same, but despite the similarities they're completely different engines.
08-12-2005, 01:11 AM
#66
Launching!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ex-SS-ve
neil me and you have had this conversation once or twice. and honestly i really dont know what to say. im not going to kiss *** here and say many good things about the lt1 motor yes they do sound great but honestly are a paint to mess with. broken valve springs, broken pistons oil leaks ,intake leaks dying gm opti sparks. and dead water pumps oh yea the dyna spark dont get me started i had one. and as far as half *** installs i am one of top notch work. but lets look at on the other side of the coin.ls1 has a lot of pluses. 2 bolt main in the lt1 vs 6 bolt in ls1= less cap walk to non existent. bolts per cylinder on the heads you say ls1s burn oil. they do but its an easy fix as far as the designing and engineering the ls1 no doubt is far more advanced. o rings and machined grooves are far better than paper and cork gaskets . and on the ignition side its not even really worth comparing the coil recharge rate is better as well. no need for msd coils for that matter. now you may say the lt1 may feel more powerful. yes it does but its short lived. they get asthmatic at about 4500 rpm. but hey if you still got arguement then keep on with it. but dont take it personal neil ok?
yes they do sound great but honestly are a paint to mess with. broken valve springs, broken pistons oil leaks ,intake leaks dying gm opti sparks. and dead water pumps oh yea the dyna spark dont get me started i had one. and as far as half *** installs i am one of top notch work. but lets look at on the other side of the coin.ls1 has a lot of pluses. 2 bolt main in the lt1 vs 6 bolt in ls1= less cap walk to non existent. bolts per cylinder on the heads you say ls1s burn oil. they do but its an easy fix as far as the designing and engineering the ls1 no doubt is far more advanced. o rings and machined grooves are far better than paper and cork gaskets . and on the ignition side its not even really worth comparing the coil recharge rate is better as well. no need for msd coils for that matter. now you may say the lt1 may feel more powerful. yes it does but its short lived. they get asthmatic at about 4500 rpm. but hey if you still got arguement then keep on with it. but dont take it personal neil ok? 
...when did you ever have a dynaspark? Broken valvesprings? Dont know how you can blame GM when your engine had an aftermarket cam and springs in it. Broken piston? Again how are you going to blame GM? I dont think they intended for you to be cruising along at 160mph running low grade gas w/ a pre known misfire condition on a modified LT1(with well over 100k miles on it). I wont get into the rest, just admit that yes the LS1 is a superior design(just as the LT1 was a superior design to the L98, and now the LS2 is to the LS1)
08-12-2005, 01:19 AM
#68
((((((Administrator))))))
Originally Posted by meangreen94z
As far as the block, really it wouldnt make a difference to me. Harlan ran an 8.2x w/ an LS6 block, so they're a capable engine. But I dont see how you can claim a block/engine never offered in the 4th gen as an LS1, and there for the LS1(which the LQ9 is not) is superior to the LT1. The LT1/LT4 both were offered in a 4th gen at one point from GM. My point was I could put a SBC based block in a 4th gen, the rotating assembly is interchangeable, the head bolt pattern is the same, but despite the similarities they're completely different engines.
Here's a little pic for you LT1 guys:
Peace,
Craig.
08-12-2005, 01:22 AM
#69
((((((Administrator))))))
Here is a few more things. LT1's have siamese exhaust ports and intake...no good!
Intake.....LS1 wins, and weight savings...LS1 again!
Peace,
Craig.
Intake.....LS1 wins, and weight savings...LS1 again!
Peace,
Craig.
08-12-2005, 01:26 AM
#70
Launching!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CRAGER
You're right the LS6 block was never offered, it just ended up in about 15% of the 01 cars and 20% of the 02 cars. Plus the LS6 block has less meat, you shouldn't punch out one, so thus in inferior block.
Here's a little pic for you LT1 guys:
Peace,
Craig.
Here's a little pic for you LT1 guys:
Peace,
Craig.
08-12-2005, 01:29 AM
#71
((((((Administrator))))))
Originally Posted by meangreen94z
...and now the LS2 is to the LS1)
There are very few differences in the LS2. The knock sensors went from under the intake to under the motor. The cam sensor went from behind the motor to the front, and of course 5.7 to 6.0 liter.
Peace,
Craig.
08-12-2005, 01:33 AM
#72
Launching!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CRAGER
Here is a few more things. LT1's have siamese exhaust ports and intake...no good!
Intake.....LS1 wins, and weight savings...LS1 again!
Peace,
Craig.
Intake.....LS1 wins, and weight savings...LS1 again!
Peace,
Craig.
j/k Where did all those weight savings go? lolIm not saying the LS1 isnt a superior design in some ways, just simply stating my opinion that the LT1 still has its benefits over the LS1. If I had had the money at the time(and had the LS1 front end appealed to me), I would probably be arguing on your side. But at this point, I think I'll stick with my LT1.
08-12-2005, 01:36 AM
#73
Launching!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CRAGER
LS2 is the SAME damn motor. Just like the LS6, soon to be LS7, etc...
There are very few differences in the LS2. The knock sensors went from under the intake to under the motor. The cam sensor went from behind the motor to the front, and of course 5.7 to 6.0 liter.
Peace,
Craig.
There are very few differences in the LS2. The knock sensors went from under the intake to under the motor. The cam sensor went from behind the motor to the front, and of course 5.7 to 6.0 liter.
Peace,
Craig.
08-12-2005, 01:45 AM
#75
((((((Administrator))))))
Originally Posted by meangreen94z
...Thats all you can come up with after my long posts? j/k...
j/k...
Originally Posted by meangreen94z
...benefits over the LS1...
Race cars aside.
Bring a stock LT1 up against a stock LS1. Any kid of race, dead stop, roll. Then cam vs cam, heads/cam, vs heads cam.
Also try to compare the install times of these two cars on the heads/cam.
Originally Posted by meangreen94z
Theres more differences than that, not to mention GM calls it a GENIV not a GENIII. Its an improvement over the LS1, just like the LT1 was an improvement over the standard small block(while still remaining a small block).
Originally Posted by meangreen94z
I dont remember the LS1 coming with 12* heads, titanium rods, etc.
Peace,
Craig.
08-12-2005, 02:04 AM
#78
((((((Administrator))))))
Originally Posted by meangreen94z
Sigh...I could keep going, but I think I'll go to bed instead.
Talk with you later
-Daniel
Talk with you later
-Daniel
Take it easy Daniel,
Craig.
08-12-2005, 02:09 AM
#79
((((((Administrator))))))
Originally Posted by FIREHAWK #07
OMG Be nice Craig......meangreen94z- BTW Daniel, if it makes you feel any better I have a LT1 Borla cat-back on my 2001 T/A!
Peace,
Craig.
08-12-2005, 02:13 AM
#80
Originally Posted by meangreen94z
I wont get into the rest, just admit that yes the LS1 is a superior design(just as the LT1 was a superior design to the L98, and now the LS2 is to the LS1)