Welding a 6pt
10-31-2008, 01:50 PM
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Welding a 6pt I'm gonna buy a mild steel 6pt from wolfe and weld it in myself. Only shops I talked to around here either didn't do CM or wanted 2000 dollars for a 6pt, I don't think so.
The install doesn't sound too bad to me but with everything I buy theres always something I get stuck on. Anyone have any tips for doing this? I have all winter to do it so I'll be taking my time.
The install doesn't sound too bad to me but with everything I buy theres always something I get stuck on. Anyone have any tips for doing this? I have all winter to do it so I'll be taking my time.
10-31-2008, 08:20 PM
#2
We build cages for road racing. And there is a reason why we have to charge $2000. It takes a LOT of time.
Heres is one of our cages in a 3rd gen ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/NicksBuild.htm
And here is a simpler cage in a 4th gen ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/Chassis4.htm
Heres is one of our cages in a 3rd gen ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/NicksBuild.htm
And here is a simpler cage in a 4th gen ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/Chassis4.htm
10-31-2008, 08:37 PM
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We build cages for road racing. And there is a reason why we have to charge $2000. It takes a LOT of time.
Heres is one of our cages in a 3rd gen ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/NicksBuild.htm
And here is a simpler cage in a 4th gen ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/Chassis4.htm
Heres is one of our cages in a 3rd gen ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/NicksBuild.htm
And here is a simpler cage in a 4th gen ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/Chassis4.htm
I got quoted $1500 for a 10 point chromoly painted.
I think the general rule is $100/point.
as far as tips...I don't really have any except get the jig notched, here it makes it night and day difference on installing.
Chad
10-31-2008, 08:57 PM
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Yeah, I understand the big prices for the real nice cages, or even a 10pt....but a basic 6pt? gimme a break. It's gonna kill me to get the extra 20-25 lbs from steel, but I'll take 20 pounds of sprung weight over the rear to save 1500 bucks.
11-01-2008, 09:41 AM
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and that is quite a bit of work too. done quite a few. usually picky when it comes ot install. even if mild steel i still TIG weld them since i like teh finish results better. i know it is overkill but at same time i know my work will be seen by others.
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11-01-2008, 10:28 AM
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The question I always ask myself is, Do I want to go upside down in a cage that I welded mysef? The answer has always been no. It is one of those things best left to experience, in my opinion.
Gary
Gary
11-01-2008, 03:56 PM
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I am a welder by trade, and I dont think I would have any problem welding a 6pt. in for $600. That would be if the car is already gutted. I wouldn't even try to mig weld a cage, because I take to much pride in my work. I havn't ever welded a rollcage, but welding up all kinds of pipe in plants cant be much different.
For all of you that have welded cages, how do you prep the notched ends of the tubing? Do you bevel the end so you can run a root pass then fill it up and cap it? I know it would take longer, but I know the welded area would be a ton stronger. Just curious.
For all of you that have welded cages, how do you prep the notched ends of the tubing? Do you bevel the end so you can run a root pass then fill it up and cap it? I know it would take longer, but I know the welded area would be a ton stronger. Just curious.
11-01-2008, 04:40 PM
#10
Yes, we bevel the edges.
The high costs are more associated with prep. Seam sealer, undercoating, fuel and brake lines, and the fuel tank must come out to ensure a good weld.
And the floor plate we put in a few rosettes so that the floor plate and floor pan don't act like a drum.
The details is the difference between a $1000 job and a $2000 job.
The high costs are more associated with prep. Seam sealer, undercoating, fuel and brake lines, and the fuel tank must come out to ensure a good weld.
And the floor plate we put in a few rosettes so that the floor plate and floor pan don't act like a drum.
The details is the difference between a $1000 job and a $2000 job.
11-01-2008, 05:46 PM
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Why do the fuel and brake lines need to be removed? Non of them are inside the car. I also dont see why the fuel tank must come out.
I dont mean to really dog on your work, but I looked at the posts you have up top, and I wouldn't call that a $2000 job. You said that you prep the ends? You must have just started doing that, because you didn't even grind the mill scale off of the tubing. I am going to be helping a fabricator here in town this winter, so the first chance I get I will post up my prep work and my welding. The welds may be strong, but they dont look good at all. I would be pretty pissed if i paid 2000 to have someone weld up and install a cage, and the welds look that way. I guess thats why you paint them before giving it to the customer?
I dont mean to really dog on your work, but I looked at the posts you have up top, and I wouldn't call that a $2000 job. You said that you prep the ends? You must have just started doing that, because you didn't even grind the mill scale off of the tubing. I am going to be helping a fabricator here in town this winter, so the first chance I get I will post up my prep work and my welding. The welds may be strong, but they dont look good at all. I would be pretty pissed if i paid 2000 to have someone weld up and install a cage, and the welds look that way. I guess thats why you paint them before giving it to the customer?
11-01-2008, 05:54 PM
#12
LOL ... well, I'm not the welder, but we have a lot of "bad looking" welds out there. I know welders, as a whole, compare pecker sizes by the neatness of their welds.
In 98 and newer cars, the gas tank is plastic and just an inch or so away from the deck where the rear down bar mounting plates SHOULD go. And the plastic fuel and brake lines run directly below where we have to mount the A-pillar bar.
Of course, many mount the rear down tubes on the fender wells ... a single layer of 16 gauge metal. I would hate to bet my life on that thin metal.
Details ...
Oh yes, and by rule, we have to use .120 wall DOM 1 3/4" tubing. It's around $5 a foot and there is 120' of tubing in that 3rd gen. After tax and delivery, that's $800 worth of steel. If we could use the cheaper steel, we could probably get the price down to a few hundred bucks too.
In 98 and newer cars, the gas tank is plastic and just an inch or so away from the deck where the rear down bar mounting plates SHOULD go. And the plastic fuel and brake lines run directly below where we have to mount the A-pillar bar.
Of course, many mount the rear down tubes on the fender wells ... a single layer of 16 gauge metal. I would hate to bet my life on that thin metal.
Details ...
Oh yes, and by rule, we have to use .120 wall DOM 1 3/4" tubing. It's around $5 a foot and there is 120' of tubing in that 3rd gen. After tax and delivery, that's $800 worth of steel. If we could use the cheaper steel, we could probably get the price down to a few hundred bucks too.
Last edited by mitchntx; 11-01-2008 at 06:00 PM.
11-01-2008, 08:33 PM
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Im not camparing "pecker" size to anyone, im just saying that I wouldn't want to pay a couple thousand dollars for something that looks like that. You didn't answer my question about the tube prep. Why not prep the ends, or at least get the mill scale off of the tube before welding? It will make welding a lot easier and will probably look better too.
11-01-2008, 10:58 PM
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ummm... so where's the bevel? I didn't see a bevel on anything in those pictures. If I was going to do this I would put a 45 degree bevel on all ends of the tubing. I would also clean all dirt, scale and little bits of rust off the ends about 1-2" from the weld. But what do I know. Im just 25 and have 2 years of welding school, 1 year of welding x-ray parts for aerospace, and 2 years of welding pipe in a nuclear powerplant. No, I havn't built a cage, but I do know something about welding.
11-01-2008, 11:05 PM
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Couple small pics of a moly cage in a Z I did. Personally I don't like the bars coming down on top of the gas tank area. I take them all the way to the rear frame rails.
Last edited by red91z; 11-01-2008 at 11:11 PM.
11-01-2008, 11:25 PM
#19
ummm... so where's the bevel? I didn't see a bevel on anything in those pictures. If I was going to do this I would put a 45 degree bevel on all ends of the tubing. I would also clean all dirt, scale and little bits of rust off the ends about 1-2" from the weld. But what do I know. Im just 25 and have 2 years of welding school, 1 year of welding x-ray parts for aerospace, and 2 years of welding pipe in a nuclear powerplant. No, I havn't built a cage, but I do know something about welding.
All the tubes are fitted and tacked. Then removed, painted and prepped.
I've seen several cars with rear down bars going from the main hoop to the rear frame rails. The span between connection points is too far without bracing. This was after looking at a lot of cars that have been through some serious wrecks.