A newbie doing paint and body
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A newbie doing paint and body Well, I'm going to use this thread to chronicle my adventures in paint and bodywork. I've not done much of either.... ever, and never with any guidance... so you seasoned guys can sit back and chuckle as I make mistakes. And you guys who have never done it before... well, you can watch me fumble through it.
This first project is a practice hood. It's coming off of one of my parts cars (Fiero). The car is headed to the crusher, so can't hurt anything to ruin it.
The paint that's on there is a rattle can paint job. It's flaking off, cracking off, and overall pretty bad. So, I'm posting a before picture. First step is to wash with dishwashing detergent to remove any wax. Then I'll hit it with a solvent based wax and grease remover (warning: use a 3M organic respirator and nitrile gloves, this stuff can be NASTY, and made me feel weird for a day after using it).
After cleaning, hit it with the Dual Action (DA) sander. During the sanding, I found that I had a problem corner... cracked. The hood is made from SMC - same stuff the F-body doors and rear hatch are made from.
I sanded down to the factory "gelcoat" (I guess you'd call it, as it's a layer below the primer). I tried not to break through (to the white SMC), but I did in places. This will probably be "bad" in the future as bodywork progresses.
This first project is a practice hood. It's coming off of one of my parts cars (Fiero). The car is headed to the crusher, so can't hurt anything to ruin it.
The paint that's on there is a rattle can paint job. It's flaking off, cracking off, and overall pretty bad. So, I'm posting a before picture. First step is to wash with dishwashing detergent to remove any wax. Then I'll hit it with a solvent based wax and grease remover (warning: use a 3M organic respirator and nitrile gloves, this stuff can be NASTY, and made me feel weird for a day after using it).
After cleaning, hit it with the Dual Action (DA) sander. During the sanding, I found that I had a problem corner... cracked. The hood is made from SMC - same stuff the F-body doors and rear hatch are made from.
I sanded down to the factory "gelcoat" (I guess you'd call it, as it's a layer below the primer). I tried not to break through (to the white SMC), but I did in places. This will probably be "bad" in the future as bodywork progresses.
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First thing to do was to tackle the problem corner.
I decided to purchase a tube of Evercoat's FiberTech. (see http://www.evercoat.com ). This is a fiberglass based filler, with very short strands of glass. Why did I get this? Well, I bought 2 VFN cowl hoods (one for my '94, the other for my '98). On at least the '94 hood, some of the edges are chipped a little bit. I figure FiberTech will be perfect at filling and fixing those chips on the VFN hood.
Anyhow, so I mix up a batch. As I walk over to the hood, it starts to harden. By the time I get to the hood, I can't even spread it. Oops. Too much hardener. I used slightly less than they recommended (so I thought).
So I clean everything and mix up another batch. This time I use at most half of what I used the first time. This time it works perfectly. I give it a while to set up, and then sand it down. Worked out nicely. This will be perfect on that VFN hood.
Then came my venture in to epoxy primer. I'm using products from SPI (at http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com ). First up is their epoxy primer.
I mix it up 1:1 primer/activator, with a splash of reducer. I'm in a hurry, so I only give it a few minutes to induce. Rush rush rush, gotta pick up my son from school... so it really turned out like crap. Dry on top, wet look on the bottom, I scratched it with the air hose before it was dry, and I accidentally wiped the hood down with laquer thinner beforehand (instead of wax and grease remover - that's what I get for using an unlabeled bottle!) and got solvent pop on a previous bondo spot where the laquer thinner hadn't dried thoroughly.
And I was not happy at all at how I hung the hood to paint. The angle was just too weird. I even dripped sweat on the hood while painting. Uggh.
I used a DeVilbiss GFG-670 spraygun with a 1.4 tip for the epoxy primer.
I decided to purchase a tube of Evercoat's FiberTech. (see http://www.evercoat.com ). This is a fiberglass based filler, with very short strands of glass. Why did I get this? Well, I bought 2 VFN cowl hoods (one for my '94, the other for my '98). On at least the '94 hood, some of the edges are chipped a little bit. I figure FiberTech will be perfect at filling and fixing those chips on the VFN hood.
Anyhow, so I mix up a batch. As I walk over to the hood, it starts to harden. By the time I get to the hood, I can't even spread it. Oops. Too much hardener. I used slightly less than they recommended (so I thought).
So I clean everything and mix up another batch. This time I use at most half of what I used the first time. This time it works perfectly. I give it a while to set up, and then sand it down. Worked out nicely. This will be perfect on that VFN hood.
Then came my venture in to epoxy primer. I'm using products from SPI (at http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com ). First up is their epoxy primer.
I mix it up 1:1 primer/activator, with a splash of reducer. I'm in a hurry, so I only give it a few minutes to induce. Rush rush rush, gotta pick up my son from school... so it really turned out like crap. Dry on top, wet look on the bottom, I scratched it with the air hose before it was dry, and I accidentally wiped the hood down with laquer thinner beforehand (instead of wax and grease remover - that's what I get for using an unlabeled bottle!) and got solvent pop on a previous bondo spot where the laquer thinner hadn't dried thoroughly.
And I was not happy at all at how I hung the hood to paint. The angle was just too weird. I even dripped sweat on the hood while painting. Uggh.
I used a DeVilbiss GFG-670 spraygun with a 1.4 tip for the epoxy primer.
Last edited by Camaroholic; May 20, 2006 at 01:07 PM.
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So I wet sand the epoxy last night with 180 grit Mirka paper. I gotta say, I've never thought much about sandpaper. Always bought whatever I could get at Harbor Freight or generic stuff through a wholesaler. Well, this Mirka paper is completely different. It doesn't clog nearly as much, it wears far better, and the tacky paper (for the DA, for example), is the perfect tack. Not too much (so the paper goos and tries to pull the pad off the DA), and not too little - it stays stuck. Mirka's good stuff in my book.
Anyway, so I get up first thing this morning and mix up another batch of epoxy primer. Goes on perfectly this time. I took my time, gave it a good 30-45 minutes to induce, and sprayed it on. Looked good. A little orange peely, but hey, that's OK. I hung the hood differently - more straight - and it worked out much better.
Then I decided it was time for high-build primer. I'm using SPI's High Build 2K Urethane primer. Since this product contains isocyanates, out comes the full bunny suit. With my fresh air system, I looked like the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man. Guess I shouldn't have gotten Extra Large (for my 6' 170lb self).
Anyhow, got 2 layers of HB on the hood, and a 3rd on the problematic seam areas and the edges - that's why it looks like there's a dry spot in the middle of the hood. The Astro QUL109 gun that I used for the HB primer worked perfectly (though I did reduce the primer 20%, as I've read it needed reducing).
Next up: block sanding!
Anyway, so I get up first thing this morning and mix up another batch of epoxy primer. Goes on perfectly this time. I took my time, gave it a good 30-45 minutes to induce, and sprayed it on. Looked good. A little orange peely, but hey, that's OK. I hung the hood differently - more straight - and it worked out much better.
Then I decided it was time for high-build primer. I'm using SPI's High Build 2K Urethane primer. Since this product contains isocyanates, out comes the full bunny suit. With my fresh air system, I looked like the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man. Guess I shouldn't have gotten Extra Large (for my 6' 170lb self).
Anyhow, got 2 layers of HB on the hood, and a 3rd on the problematic seam areas and the edges - that's why it looks like there's a dry spot in the middle of the hood. The Astro QUL109 gun that I used for the HB primer worked perfectly (though I did reduce the primer 20%, as I've read it needed reducing).
Next up: block sanding!
Looks good. It doesn't matter how bad the primer coat "looks"...it's going to be sanded down anyway. I use the mirka paper all the time. The 3m stuff is better, but it's 4 times the price...mirka's just fine for me.
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Thanks guys. 
I'm going to let the hood sit for a couple days, and then get after it with the block sanding. I have a set of Dura Blocks (foam blocks of varying lengths and widths), some 3M Guide Coat (a graphite powder), and I'll be filling any low spots with Evercoat's Metal Glaze. Once that's done (probably next weekend) I'll follow through with a basecoat of Viper Blue and a few layers of clear. We'll see how badly I can tiger stripe this thing.
I can tell that the area I'm painting in simply won't do as-is. Way too dirty. I either need to find a booth to rent (probably best option), or build a booth, before I start doing my cars.
I'm going to let the hood sit for a couple days, and then get after it with the block sanding. I have a set of Dura Blocks (foam blocks of varying lengths and widths), some 3M Guide Coat (a graphite powder), and I'll be filling any low spots with Evercoat's Metal Glaze. Once that's done (probably next weekend) I'll follow through with a basecoat of Viper Blue and a few layers of clear. We'll see how badly I can tiger stripe this thing.
I can tell that the area I'm painting in simply won't do as-is. Way too dirty. I either need to find a booth to rent (probably best option), or build a booth, before I start doing my cars.
Originally Posted by Camaroholic
I can tell that the area I'm painting in simply won't do as-is. Way too dirty. I either need to find a booth to rent (probably best option), or build a booth, before I start doing my cars.
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Thanks man. Yeah, I asked on the local board, no replies about any local paint shops that rent out booths. So I may have to build mine up.
My shed area (behind my shop) is a 20x30, basic 3 walls, roof, dirt floor. I figure I can box in an 18x20 area in there (leaving 12' to park my trailer). If I build it with 2x4 studs, 24" apart, with 7/16" OSB siding, I ran the numbers and it'd cost about $400 to build. Add something on the floor (canvas?), the fans, filters, fluorescent lights and plastic sheeting, and we're getting close to $700. I could frame it with 1x3 sticks and staple plastic to the walls for about 1/4 of that amount, but the first storm that comes through will wipe that out pretty quick (open side is to the west, where the bigger storms roll in from). Of course, the sticks would probably be OK, it'd just be the plastic that gets wiped. Still thinking about it.
Didn't do anything on the hood today. Worked on my '98. Welded up hangars for the bullet mufflers, oil change, plug change, getting ready to get back to the track. It's only been a year since I took it out to play...
My shed area (behind my shop) is a 20x30, basic 3 walls, roof, dirt floor. I figure I can box in an 18x20 area in there (leaving 12' to park my trailer). If I build it with 2x4 studs, 24" apart, with 7/16" OSB siding, I ran the numbers and it'd cost about $400 to build. Add something on the floor (canvas?), the fans, filters, fluorescent lights and plastic sheeting, and we're getting close to $700. I could frame it with 1x3 sticks and staple plastic to the walls for about 1/4 of that amount, but the first storm that comes through will wipe that out pretty quick (open side is to the west, where the bigger storms roll in from). Of course, the sticks would probably be OK, it'd just be the plastic that gets wiped. Still thinking about it.
Didn't do anything on the hood today. Worked on my '98. Welded up hangars for the bullet mufflers, oil change, plug change, getting ready to get back to the track. It's only been a year since I took it out to play...
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Verdad Gallardo You can actually buy a halfway decent paint booth brand new for around 2k. They come with everything...lights, exhaust system, filters and all that. Might be worth looking into if you are already planning on spending 1k building one yourself.
Before my shop was built, I painted one full car (my GTO) and did a trunklid on my wife's car in my carport. The total material cost to enclose my carport was $160. I had 2 $10 boxfans, 2 DuPont A/C dust and allergan filters, a box of screws, staples, a roll of 4mil plastic (next time I'd use 6 mil) and some bundles of 2X2's. I built a frame around the open sides of the carport. (PM me with your email if you want pictures) The 2 boxfans pulled plenty of air. Both jobs came out with very little dust.
For my shop, I'm building a 30 x 12 frame, and will use an attic fan (1600 cfm) and 4-6 of the allergan filters in a cage to fit in the garage door. It will cost more to do up the shop than the carport, but it should come out better.
For my shop, I'm building a 30 x 12 frame, and will use an attic fan (1600 cfm) and 4-6 of the allergan filters in a cage to fit in the garage door. It will cost more to do up the shop than the carport, but it should come out better.
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I've seen several web sites with pictures of homemade booths, so I understand what you're talking about - thanks for the offer. I was thinking along similar lines. I think $150-$200 is possible doing it your way, no problem.
I suppose my biggest concern is dealing with the uneven soft dirt floor. Pouring concrete is not really an option. And making the booth big enough for me to get around comfortably is important as well. My thought was to purchase a large heavy canvas tarp to throw over the floor, and make sure the tarp is cleaned well. I'd have an 18' wide booth (likely 17.5 ft after walled in) - so that should give me room to hang parts and paint parts off of the car (like the nose, front fenders, rear bumper, spoiler, decklid, and doors) - another issue is that I'm planning color changes...
To get the car up higher than ride height, I was thinking of either Rhino ramps, or backing the car in with the rear tires barely on my trailer (the trailer would be tarp'd). This would allow me to hit those lower panels a lot easier. This would also keep the front 4 feet or so of the car outside the paint booth - giving me more room to work. Heck, maybe I should just wall in my whole 20x30 area, and leave a 12' wide opening for the door. I'd only have to "build" one wall that way, and just tarp the whole floor
Here is the area where I'm talking about.
I was thinking along similar lines. I think $150-$200 is possible doing it your way, no problem. I suppose my biggest concern is dealing with the uneven soft dirt floor. Pouring concrete is not really an option. And making the booth big enough for me to get around comfortably is important as well. My thought was to purchase a large heavy canvas tarp to throw over the floor, and make sure the tarp is cleaned well. I'd have an 18' wide booth (likely 17.5 ft after walled in) - so that should give me room to hang parts and paint parts off of the car (like the nose, front fenders, rear bumper, spoiler, decklid, and doors) - another issue is that I'm planning color changes...
To get the car up higher than ride height, I was thinking of either Rhino ramps, or backing the car in with the rear tires barely on my trailer (the trailer would be tarp'd). This would allow me to hit those lower panels a lot easier. This would also keep the front 4 feet or so of the car outside the paint booth - giving me more room to work. Heck, maybe I should just wall in my whole 20x30 area, and leave a 12' wide opening for the door. I'd only have to "build" one wall that way, and just tarp the whole floor
Here is the area where I'm talking about.
I see what you mean... I would just wall in that side, and the top. If you don't do something about the roof, you can get a lot of trash from overhead, and unfiltered air from there... (roof vents, eaves trapping dust, etc)
Too bad concrete wasn't an option...
I think shooting the car from the trailer is a great idea, long as you have some way to get up high for the car's roof, like a scaffold. Standing on the trailer could get dicey as you're way close to the car, and the chances of dragging your airline on damp paint, bumping the car, etc get much higher when you get close to the car. You also have to maintain the 90 degree gun shooting on the roof, especially with a metallic, or it will cover unevenly.
That way you can tarp/plastic all around the car (including under the trailer, and I'd pressure wash the trailer first) and that should negate the problem of the dirt floor.
Too bad concrete wasn't an option...
I think shooting the car from the trailer is a great idea, long as you have some way to get up high for the car's roof, like a scaffold. Standing on the trailer could get dicey as you're way close to the car, and the chances of dragging your airline on damp paint, bumping the car, etc get much higher when you get close to the car. You also have to maintain the 90 degree gun shooting on the roof, especially with a metallic, or it will cover unevenly.
That way you can tarp/plastic all around the car (including under the trailer, and I'd pressure wash the trailer first) and that should negate the problem of the dirt floor.
Oh yeah- I live in Central FL, so when we had a tropical storm roll in last year, it blew in the plastic. You'd be suprised at what the plastic will take though as long as it's tight and you staple it with a trim strip. In some of the areas I used mixing sticks! Long as the pressure stays pretty equal inside and out it will hold up pretty well.
I also put in a board across the fans to close the room off when I wasn't spraying.
I also put in a board across the fans to close the room off when I wasn't spraying.
Theoretical question here, as I am no where near painting my Camaro yet...
I thinking of painting a two tone paint scheme. Black top (Z28 style) & berger panel. the lower body will either be pewter or that metallic blue gray H2 color.
Would the upper/black paint be sprayed first then mask the roof when painting the body or vice versa?
I thinking of painting a two tone paint scheme. Black top (Z28 style) & berger panel. the lower body will either be pewter or that metallic blue gray H2 color.
Would the upper/black paint be sprayed first then mask the roof when painting the body or vice versa?
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I agree about putting plastic up high to cover the roof rafters... lots of dust and critters like it up there (notably birds and wasps).
As for the question about 2-toning a car, I'd think you'd want to spray the roof first, and then the rest of the car second. 2 reasons. Roof overspray goes down... so black overspray would be headed to the body from the roof. Secondly, spray the roof second, you stand a chance of dragging something across the freshly-sprayed body. Spraying the roof first takes that risk out of the equation.
But keep in mind I'm no expert. I'm the newbie here.
As for the question about 2-toning a car, I'd think you'd want to spray the roof first, and then the rest of the car second. 2 reasons. Roof overspray goes down... so black overspray would be headed to the body from the roof. Secondly, spray the roof second, you stand a chance of dragging something across the freshly-sprayed body. Spraying the roof first takes that risk out of the equation.
But keep in mind I'm no expert. I'm the newbie here.
for the two-tone, I agree to doing the roof first, and I've been told you always shoot a car from the top-down in a side-draft booth, which is what we end up with in our home-made enclosures ;-)
Be careful masking off the roof once it's sprayed, give it enough time to cure, too soon can result in solvent pop, gloss dieout or peeling. Tech sheets for your paint will have this info on when you can mask safely. Use low-stick masking tape or rub the tape across your shirt to lose some of the stickiness, also.
Make sure that you can hold the spray gun perpendicular to the roof at all times... if you aren't high enough, make something up, just make sure it's high enough and really sturdy. I had to stand on a 12 inch stool to get enough height for the roof on my GTO, and I'm 6'2".
Be careful masking off the roof once it's sprayed, give it enough time to cure, too soon can result in solvent pop, gloss dieout or peeling. Tech sheets for your paint will have this info on when you can mask safely. Use low-stick masking tape or rub the tape across your shirt to lose some of the stickiness, also.
Make sure that you can hold the spray gun perpendicular to the roof at all times... if you aren't high enough, make something up, just make sure it's high enough and really sturdy. I had to stand on a 12 inch stool to get enough height for the roof on my GTO, and I'm 6'2".
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Oh, forgot to mention to ya about the height thing.
The Fiero is a very low car, small roof area, with a sunroof. That one should be easy.
The '94 Z is a convertible. Heh. Easiest roof I'll never paint.
The 98Z will be the challenge, I think. Will definitely have to plan for that one. I'm going to go body color on the roof.
The Fiero is a very low car, small roof area, with a sunroof. That one should be easy.
The '94 Z is a convertible. Heh. Easiest roof I'll never paint.
The 98Z will be the challenge, I think. Will definitely have to plan for that one. I'm going to go body color on the roof.
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Well, had a little time tonight, so I started blocking the hood.
First pic shows after "a while", first cutting down with 80 grit on a long Dura Block, then continuing with 320 grit on the shorter one. You can see low spots on the hood (the shiny spots).
Second pic is as I left it tonight. Still some low spots (with a couple high spots poking through near the headlight openings). I'm going to smooth it down, hit it again with 1 coat of primer, and then use some 3M guidecoat on it. I'm just sanding according to the shiny spots right now.
I probably made a mistake earlier when I put the building primer on immediately after the epoxy primer. I should have used my Evercoat Metal Glaze and filled in the obvious low spots, and then applied the building primer. Oops. I probably made more work for myself by doing that.
My goal is to basecoat/clearcoat the hood this coming 3-day weekend. Don't know if that'll happen, but fingers crossed...
First pic shows after "a while", first cutting down with 80 grit on a long Dura Block, then continuing with 320 grit on the shorter one. You can see low spots on the hood (the shiny spots).
Second pic is as I left it tonight. Still some low spots (with a couple high spots poking through near the headlight openings). I'm going to smooth it down, hit it again with 1 coat of primer, and then use some 3M guidecoat on it. I'm just sanding according to the shiny spots right now.
I probably made a mistake earlier when I put the building primer on immediately after the epoxy primer. I should have used my Evercoat Metal Glaze and filled in the obvious low spots, and then applied the building primer. Oops. I probably made more work for myself by doing that.
My goal is to basecoat/clearcoat the hood this coming 3-day weekend. Don't know if that'll happen, but fingers crossed...
Durablocks are great. I like to strip the hood down to metal, shoot a coat of etch/epoxy primer, then block with 80 using a very long block. That'll show you the low/high spots very fast. Any small round shiny spots I'll tap down if necessary, then I mark all the low spots with a piece of tape, after scuffing them well with 80grit. Then i fill those with filler, level and featheredge them, and then shoot the whole thing with high-build 2k primer. Then I block it with 180, again looking and feeling for shiny spots. You should be able to get away without any more filler if you did it well enough the first time. Then I go directly to wetsanding with 400 then 600 and base. (for light metallics) Easier said than done, but i'm an apprentice at a bodyshop right now and that's what I've learned to do.