Got A Question For You Welders
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Got A Question For You Welders
How do you guys do your vertical ups? Or whats the best, most structural sound way. I do the Christmas Tree like bead and think thats good. But the company I am working for now say that you are supposed to just hot tack it all the way up. To me that seems like the easy way out and weaker. I mean anyone can just run a bunch of tacks up a seem. So what do you guys think or how do you do them. I am just curious. I guess a gorvernment inspector or whatever told them the hot tack method was stronger, but I just dont believe it yet. So whats your input guys. Thanx
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Originally Posted by DrivenWS6
How do you guys do your vertical ups? Or whats the best, most structural sound way. I do the Christmas Tree like bead and think thats good. But the company I am working for now say that you are supposed to just hot tack it all the way up. To me that seems like the easy way out and weaker. I mean anyone can just run a bunch of tacks up a seem. So what do you guys think or how do you do them. I am just curious. I guess a gorvernment inspector or whatever told them the hot tack method was stronger, but I just dont believe it yet. So whats your input guys. Thanx
Last edited by jdustu; 08-25-2007 at 03:42 PM.
#3
You’ll be hard pressed to show a situation where “hot tacking” will give you a better weld than running a proper bead, the only place that I can think of when welding vertical is on some thin sheet metal with a mig, but in that case I’d suggest trying actually running the bead vertical down, and this isn’t exactly a structural application.
In a lot of cases vertical ups can be just plain ugly no matter what you do with the exception of using a few stick electrodes which don’t flow as much as others, but a lot of the question is what are you welding, how heavy is it and what are you welding it with?
In a lot of cases vertical ups can be just plain ugly no matter what you do with the exception of using a few stick electrodes which don’t flow as much as others, but a lot of the question is what are you welding, how heavy is it and what are you welding it with?
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hot tack if done right will be as strong as a bead weld. the only reason i see for a hot tack is the metal is kinda thin and if your run a continueous bead up you will either warp the metal or burn though. top to bottom is a cooler process but not as much penitration as bottom to top. Im asuming your mig welding.
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Yeah I am mig welding. Its on pretty heavy steel, 3/8 inch and up. So burning through is not an issue as it would be on sheetmetal. We have ou welders cranked up to over 28 and it never blows through. They are dead set on telling us its stronger, but I dont feel good about sending welds out the door that i feel are inferior. So I just thought I would get your guys opinions on it.
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I dont know if you have run 7018 rod before, but you run it the same way. Hold on the sides and jump the middle. **_____** 1,2 jump, 1,2 jump
Remember that you dont need as much heat running up as you would running down or flat. If you start getting cratering, or a crown in the center hold your sides longer and slow down. Turn you machine to about 160 amps and go from there. That would be a good setting for .035 wire and C25 gas. If you are using C100 gas you dont need as much heat. Try it and post a picture, I can tell you what you need to change if needed.
Remember that you dont need as much heat running up as you would running down or flat. If you start getting cratering, or a crown in the center hold your sides longer and slow down. Turn you machine to about 160 amps and go from there. That would be a good setting for .035 wire and C25 gas. If you are using C100 gas you dont need as much heat. Try it and post a picture, I can tell you what you need to change if needed.
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An uphill weld is much stronger than a downhill weld. Going up builds the heat as you go creating deeper and more uniform penetration. Downhill runs away from the heat, much less tacking that is next to nothing penetration wise and a bunch of cold tie-ins. If it is 3/8" material and considered structural, the only way to do it is uphill. Any inspector that says otherwise is a fraud.
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most inspectors are frauds to begin with. 90% of the ones i've worked with knew NOTHING about welding, so they would just point out stuff to fix that they thought wasn't right, leaving real problems like poor starts/stops, cold lap, and porosity unattended to...
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Originally Posted by 2000_SS
...leaving real problems like poor starts/stops, cold lap, and porosity unattended to...
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i pretty much agree 100% with MikeGyver. there are too many TV shows "teaching" ignorant yuppies how to be "handy" around the shop without any REAL knowledge being gained. i'll stop there because i don't want to rant.
i think hardwire MIG welding WAS invented, or perfected through shielding gas usage, so that any monkey could pick up a gun and stick two pieces of metal together. that's the point, BUT even still there is a right way and a billion wrong ways to do it.
i basically build radiators for nuclear (and othe fuel) powerplants at Thermal Engineering, Intl. there's a lot at stake when it comes to the quality of my welds and everyone else's that work there. i had to pass a X-ray test on several processes and in many positions including hardwire vertical up. i gotta say, that was probably the hardest to do just because of nature of the puddle under those conditions in that process.
i've never welded hardwire up since i took that test.
i think hardwire MIG welding WAS invented, or perfected through shielding gas usage, so that any monkey could pick up a gun and stick two pieces of metal together. that's the point, BUT even still there is a right way and a billion wrong ways to do it.
i basically build radiators for nuclear (and othe fuel) powerplants at Thermal Engineering, Intl. there's a lot at stake when it comes to the quality of my welds and everyone else's that work there. i had to pass a X-ray test on several processes and in many positions including hardwire vertical up. i gotta say, that was probably the hardest to do just because of nature of the puddle under those conditions in that process.
i've never welded hardwire up since i took that test.
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I am a AWS certified structural and API certified pipe welder. There about 1 of 10 applications that downhill will be accepted in a structure or high pressure envirnment. ER70 wire and 7018 rod are the usual options, both of course run uphill. What thickness material are you running and what kind of strength parameters are you trying to meet?
#13
3/8" thick...? 7018 stick vertical up is the only really good way to do that. I'm pretty confident of my ablility with a MIG but I'm also pretty sure that I'm not going to pull that off with some normal ER70, get it hot enough and still get a nice looking weld.
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Originally Posted by Silverback
3/8" thick...? 7018 stick vertical up is the only really good way to do that. I'm pretty confident of my ablility with a MIG but I'm also pretty sure that I'm not going to pull that off with some normal ER70, get it hot enough and still get a nice looking weld.
#15
we had a guy who welded in the Army come and do a weld test he did the same junk tack, tack, tack crap he got told to weld a normal bead and he could not..........then he got told bye bye.
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Originally Posted by BigJls1
we had a guy who welded in the Army come and do a weld test he did the same junk tack, tack, tack crap he got told to weld a normal bead and he could not..........then he got told bye bye.
Thats exactley whats going on here. The main crew leader as far as welding goes is from the military and I think thats how thei whole hot tack method came about. Everyone in the shop just praises this guy and thinks hes the best builder to ever be and he cant even do a vertical up. The sad part is he acts the same way, has the cocky attitude like I am supposed to bow down to him and that just bothers me.
But Yeah MikeGyver the welds we are doing are very important. We are building Mining Equipment, the big chipping plants, washing plants, and screeners with a lot of mass, most of our plants leave the shop at over 125,000 pounds. I dont think I could or want to deal with the fact that one of my welds could break killing someone just cause they wanted they're welds done a shotty way cause most of their team leads could not weld properly. That is why I wll be looking for a new job here real shortly.
When I started another welder started with me and he was certified and everything and when he found out that they did this hot tack crap he was about ready to walk out right there. They put both of us on this project and we welded the way we wanted to and the next day the shop superintendant was there along with this "military" leader to tell us we were doing it wrong and that hot tack is soo much better and stronger and then they proceeded to make us do it the hot tack way. Ever since then I have been very questionable on the quality of their work. I am just not sure I want to be a part of it anymore, theres ather places I could be working I am sure. Sorry for the long post guys, I'll try and get ya some pics also, I dont know how well they'd like me takin pics of their welds but oh well.
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the process and the welder should be certified in that case, i would think. i don't know if there's an agency that would oversee that or which one it would be, though. i'm sure one of these other guys might have a better idea.
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Originally Posted by jdustu
the process and the welder should be certified in that case, i would think. i don't know if there's an agency that would oversee that or which one it would be, though. i'm sure one of these other guys might have a better idea.
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Originally Posted by xfactor_pitbulls
The AWS (American Welding Society) is the largest governing body for welding in the US. AWS D1.1-1.8 Cover most aspects of welding that apply to everyday shop type work. If there is something that is non-standard, you are supposed to write a procedure, submit it, get approved by AWS, and basically create a new standard for a welding situation.
-josh
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The requirement, cert, whatever............is determined more often than not, by the end user or their insurance company. ISO 9000 is common for government work. Liability is for sure decreased is the work is inspected and the burden put on the inspection company.