2002 ws6 Update!
08-11-2017, 08:03 PM
#1
2002 ws6 Update! Hello, I have an opportunity to buy a 2002 bright red ws6, t top 6 speed. It is a one owner car with 17000 miles. They have the window sticker. The interior is perfect. The paint is not, it hasn't been garage kept. While I feel it would clean up decent, it has the paint that you would expect from a car sitting outside in Pennsylvania for 15 years. They are asking 15k, I don't believe it to be firm. The car isn't being advertised and I'm the first one on it. Hate to low ball but can't pay 15k on account of cosmetics issues with the paint.
What's the car worth?
What's the car worth?
Last edited by wph351; 09-15-2017 at 01:53 PM.
08-11-2017, 09:02 PM
#2
TECH Enthusiast
With good paint w/o issues, I'd figure the car at $17K-$18K for an M6. Figure $1K to $1.5K less for an A4. It could be anything from $2K to $5K less with bad paint due to outdoor storage - bubbling, peeling, blistering, dents, dings, flaking fiberglass, etc. Is it that severe?
I've only seen one car that was like that in the past 6 years. This was back in fall of 2011 when I was looking at a 1-owner, black 2001 WS6 M6 with 31,000 miles. It had just been traded in at a dealership and their asking price was $10,000. It was so cheap I had to go look at it. The car was beat with peeling clear coat on hood, roof, upper quarters and spoiler. A few hunks of fiberglass had come off the spoiler edges. Someone had already did a black spray can touch up on the upper right quarter panel. The interior was sad too with a torn, mud-stained carpet, and a flattened driver's seat. The car looked more like 131K miles than 31K. Mechanically the car had already been through 2 sets of exhaust/cats, a clutch and shifter, 2 brake jobs, side mirrors, and some engine bearings....all of that apparently under warranty during the first 3 yrs of life by 16K miles. The tires on that car were close to bald - they pulled hard to front right and vibrated like crazy at 55+ mph.
The dealer decided not to sell this car to the public and wholesaled it out to a nearby used car/speed shop. Those guys did the paint and interior repairs and then were asking $12,500 for the car 6 months later. While this car had lots of problems, it basically needed new paint. It doesn't sound like your car is that far gone. If mechanically sound your WS6 might be worth $13K-$14K. I guess it comes down to how many issues it has. Dents, scratches, etc. Is it presentable? At what distance? If it will clean up to 8/10 or even 9/10 with polishing and buffing, then it's just some labor, especially if you can do it yourself.
If you are the 1st one to look at it....you will be the "bearer of bad news." And in many cases that is not appreciated. Some sellers will just assume you don't know what you're talking about and out to rip them off. Whatever fair price you offer, they could end up telling the next guy and they'll beat your offer by $100-$200. Be honest with them and see if you can get it for less. Most 17K mile cars left these days have been garaged. I would guess over 90-95% of them. And even being garaged is no guarantee as pulling and removing the car cover can scratch the car up too. While my 18K mile SS is garaged, it has a bunch of light stone chips on the hood and glass, from the rare times the car was on the highway. It seems no matter what I do, and no matter how far I stay clear of other cars, I get a fresh stone chip nearly every time out on the highway. That's funny because my 2002 Lincoln with 78K miles driven all year round, and kept outside, has less stone chips than my Camaro. It doesn't make sense to me but that's the evidence.
I'm sort of surprised that even in Pennsylvania the car's exterior turned to crap. Fwiw, I had a 1998 Z28 stored outside from 2001-2009 while I ran the miles up from 22K to 115K. When I sold the car it had one tiny ding by the gas door....but no rusting, flaking, bubbling, or blistering paint anywhere. At least I was considerate to keep the car in shade when I could. For much of the winter it sat under a cover and tarp when not being driven on clear roads. For a 17K mile car, I can't imagine someone not covering it while it sat mostly unused. But that was the case with the 31K mile 2001 above. It was on a farm out in the open or under a tree. It was covered in thick mud on the under-carriage as the owner must have loved driving it all around the muddy farm.
I've only seen one car that was like that in the past 6 years. This was back in fall of 2011 when I was looking at a 1-owner, black 2001 WS6 M6 with 31,000 miles. It had just been traded in at a dealership and their asking price was $10,000. It was so cheap I had to go look at it. The car was beat with peeling clear coat on hood, roof, upper quarters and spoiler. A few hunks of fiberglass had come off the spoiler edges. Someone had already did a black spray can touch up on the upper right quarter panel. The interior was sad too with a torn, mud-stained carpet, and a flattened driver's seat. The car looked more like 131K miles than 31K. Mechanically the car had already been through 2 sets of exhaust/cats, a clutch and shifter, 2 brake jobs, side mirrors, and some engine bearings....all of that apparently under warranty during the first 3 yrs of life by 16K miles. The tires on that car were close to bald - they pulled hard to front right and vibrated like crazy at 55+ mph.
The dealer decided not to sell this car to the public and wholesaled it out to a nearby used car/speed shop. Those guys did the paint and interior repairs and then were asking $12,500 for the car 6 months later. While this car had lots of problems, it basically needed new paint. It doesn't sound like your car is that far gone. If mechanically sound your WS6 might be worth $13K-$14K. I guess it comes down to how many issues it has. Dents, scratches, etc. Is it presentable? At what distance? If it will clean up to 8/10 or even 9/10 with polishing and buffing, then it's just some labor, especially if you can do it yourself.
If you are the 1st one to look at it....you will be the "bearer of bad news." And in many cases that is not appreciated. Some sellers will just assume you don't know what you're talking about and out to rip them off. Whatever fair price you offer, they could end up telling the next guy and they'll beat your offer by $100-$200. Be honest with them and see if you can get it for less. Most 17K mile cars left these days have been garaged. I would guess over 90-95% of them. And even being garaged is no guarantee as pulling and removing the car cover can scratch the car up too. While my 18K mile SS is garaged, it has a bunch of light stone chips on the hood and glass, from the rare times the car was on the highway. It seems no matter what I do, and no matter how far I stay clear of other cars, I get a fresh stone chip nearly every time out on the highway. That's funny because my 2002 Lincoln with 78K miles driven all year round, and kept outside, has less stone chips than my Camaro. It doesn't make sense to me but that's the evidence.
I'm sort of surprised that even in Pennsylvania the car's exterior turned to crap. Fwiw, I had a 1998 Z28 stored outside from 2001-2009 while I ran the miles up from 22K to 115K. When I sold the car it had one tiny ding by the gas door....but no rusting, flaking, bubbling, or blistering paint anywhere. At least I was considerate to keep the car in shade when I could. For much of the winter it sat under a cover and tarp when not being driven on clear roads. For a 17K mile car, I can't imagine someone not covering it while it sat mostly unused. But that was the case with the 31K mile 2001 above. It was on a farm out in the open or under a tree. It was covered in thick mud on the under-carriage as the owner must have loved driving it all around the muddy farm.
Last edited by Firebrian; 08-11-2017 at 09:15 PM.
08-12-2017, 01:33 AM
#3
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Sounds like we'd need some pictures to get a better idea of paint condition. I agree with Firebrian above, that the deduction for paint/body issues could range wildly depending on just how bad it is (and how much skill any potential buyer might have to bring it back on their own time.) It's amazing what can be done with machines and proper compounds but, of course, there is a limit. If the clear is gone or super thin, and/or any issues with the base coat, then you're likely looking at a repaint (partial or perhaps complete.)
Odd that the paint would be so bad but the interior would be perfect. Leather was standard on those cars, and the rear seat tops don't hold up well at all when kept out in the sun (they shrink/sink, get brittle and hard.) The dash top is known to crack from heat/sun exposure. How did these areas stay perfect outside in the sun? Or perhaps that paint damage isn't from sun, but from tree/bird droppings if it was parked in the shade? That would explain the great interior with the poor exterior. Also, be prepared for sail panel replacement - if it's not already bubbling, then it's sure to do this eventually unless you never expose the car to much sunlight (this repair can easily get into the $1k+ range unless you source a good used panel from an earlier car and do all the labor yourself.)
I imagine you must have kept yours waxed. This makes a huge difference over the years. My 2002 Z28 was outside for most of its life as well, either in my driveway or in the parking lot at work (which was in full sun BTW.) The paint was still impressively shiny with no obvious signs of sun damage anywhere at the time I sold it in 2014 (though it did have some rust, due to winter driving, mostly on the undercarriage.) The only time I really noticed its age was when seeing it parked next to my garage queen '98, otherwise it looked quite fresh even at 110k miles/12 years old and tons of outdoor exposure.
Sounds like this '02 WS6 was really neglected, probably never or rarely waxed, leaving the paint subject to all kinds of environmental damage from the great outdoors. I imagine that fluids and other maintenance items have also been neglected. Certainly not a top dollar car in this sort of state, but it's hard to get a feel for just how bad (or good) it might be without some detailed pictures at least (and even then, this is one that would really need some in-person inspection and discussion with the owner to get a feel for.)
Odd that the paint would be so bad but the interior would be perfect. Leather was standard on those cars, and the rear seat tops don't hold up well at all when kept out in the sun (they shrink/sink, get brittle and hard.) The dash top is known to crack from heat/sun exposure. How did these areas stay perfect outside in the sun? Or perhaps that paint damage isn't from sun, but from tree/bird droppings if it was parked in the shade? That would explain the great interior with the poor exterior. Also, be prepared for sail panel replacement - if it's not already bubbling, then it's sure to do this eventually unless you never expose the car to much sunlight (this repair can easily get into the $1k+ range unless you source a good used panel from an earlier car and do all the labor yourself.)
I'm sort of surprised that even in Pennsylvania the car's exterior turned to crap. Fwiw, I had a 1998 Z28 stored outside from 2001-2009 while I ran the miles up from 22K to 115K. When I sold the car it had one tiny ding by the gas door....but no rusting, flaking, bubbling, or blistering paint anywhere. At least I was considerate to keep the car in shade when I could.
Sounds like this '02 WS6 was really neglected, probably never or rarely waxed, leaving the paint subject to all kinds of environmental damage from the great outdoors. I imagine that fluids and other maintenance items have also been neglected. Certainly not a top dollar car in this sort of state, but it's hard to get a feel for just how bad (or good) it might be without some detailed pictures at least (and even then, this is one that would really need some in-person inspection and discussion with the owner to get a feel for.)
08-12-2017, 06:36 AM
#4
I think most of the paint would clean up ok, doesn't seem to be any clear burn through. The worst of it is where the hatch wraps around the car and come foward to a point. From that point, and about 3 inches rear ward the paint is fubar. Cracked, chipped, peeled etc. No saving it. The sail panel has some bubbling beginning but not horrendous. The nose panel has some spider webbing on the drivers side, as does the drivers door just below the window and stretching down about 4 inches, starting from the side view mirror and going to about the door handle. There are a 2 small scratches on the drivers door, lower edge of drivers ground effect is scraped. Drivers rear 1/4 panel has a 3 inch scrape that's would also dented slightly. There isn't much in the way of stone chips or anything. Overall I think the car would clean up pretty well. However it has the look ok a 100,000 car but without the stone chips.
08-12-2017, 10:59 AM
#6
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Based on your description, it doesn't sound like this would be the case at all. Seems like it's going to need significant paint work (or a complete repaint), above and beyond simple compounding, to get it looking the way a 17k mile car should.
Just an FYI on the sail panel, it doesn't matter if the bubbles aren't horrible yet, the whole panel will still need to be replaced. There is no cheap/easy fix for this issue, unfortunately.
Based on what's been described, I would give this car only limited additional value for the low mileage. It sounds cosmetically beat/neglected and, again, probably has been neglected in terms of maintenance as well. I wouldn't worry about offending them with an offer, they don't have a gem on their hands in this sort of condition (you could probably find an overall nicer example with 50-75k miles), nor will anyone be beating down their door to pay something close to $15k once they see the shape it's in.
IMO, it's overpriced by about ~$5k, maybe more, based on what it sounds like so far.
Just an FYI on the sail panel, it doesn't matter if the bubbles aren't horrible yet, the whole panel will still need to be replaced. There is no cheap/easy fix for this issue, unfortunately.
Based on what's been described, I would give this car only limited additional value for the low mileage. It sounds cosmetically beat/neglected and, again, probably has been neglected in terms of maintenance as well. I wouldn't worry about offending them with an offer, they don't have a gem on their hands in this sort of condition (you could probably find an overall nicer example with 50-75k miles), nor will anyone be beating down their door to pay something close to $15k once they see the shape it's in.
IMO, it's overpriced by about ~$5k, maybe more, based on what it sounds like so far.
08-12-2017, 11:10 AM
#7
Based on your description, it doesn't sound like this would be the case at all. Seems like it's going to need significant paint work (or a complete repaint), above and beyond simple compounding, to get it looking the way a 17k mile car should.
Just an FYI on the sail panel, it doesn't matter if the bubbles aren't horrible yet, the whole panel will still need to be replaced. There is no cheap/easy fix for this issue, unfortunately.
Based on what's been described, I would give this car only limited additional value for the low mileage. It sounds cosmetically beat/neglected and, again, probably has been neglected in terms of maintenance as well. I wouldn't worry about offending them with an offer, they don't have a gem on their hands in this sort of condition (you could probably find an overall nicer example with 50-75k miles), nor will anyone be beating down their door to pay something close to $15k once they see the shape it's in.
IMO, it's overpriced by about ~$5k, maybe more, based on what it sounds like so far.
Just an FYI on the sail panel, it doesn't matter if the bubbles aren't horrible yet, the whole panel will still need to be replaced. There is no cheap/easy fix for this issue, unfortunately.
Based on what's been described, I would give this car only limited additional value for the low mileage. It sounds cosmetically beat/neglected and, again, probably has been neglected in terms of maintenance as well. I wouldn't worry about offending them with an offer, they don't have a gem on their hands in this sort of condition (you could probably find an overall nicer example with 50-75k miles), nor will anyone be beating down their door to pay something close to $15k once they see the shape it's in.
IMO, it's overpriced by about ~$5k, maybe more, based on what it sounds like so far.
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08-12-2017, 12:10 PM
#8
TECH Enthusiast
$10K sounds like a reasonable offer. That's sort of what I felt that beat up black 2001 WS6 with 31K miles was worth before I found out the mechanicals had been thrashed as well. If you have an electrically and mechanically sound 17K mile car, having a bit rough of an exterior might be a blessing. You won't think twice of leaving it out in the weather from time to time....or getting a parking lot ding/scuff.
KBB is normally your friend when buying low mileage 4th gens. In this case it works against you showing a "fair" conditioned 17K mile car with a $10K-$12K trade-in value....and $12K-$14K private party value. The sellers might figure it's worth no less than $11,983 to you (fair condition to private party). Had they kept the exterior waxed and protected somewhat, it would be a $15K car all day long. You could probably look at 50 low mileage (under 20K miles) Firebirds and Camaro's and not find another car with paint issues worse than this one. Hopefully, the owner took care of the fluids over the past 15 yrs. If there's still original, muddy brown looking DexCool in the radiator, it just might be a pass.
Of approx 26 WS6's with under 30K miles on autotrader.com, only 3 cars are priced at or under $17K...the lowest at $16,750. Most are in the $20's.
KBB is normally your friend when buying low mileage 4th gens. In this case it works against you showing a "fair" conditioned 17K mile car with a $10K-$12K trade-in value....and $12K-$14K private party value. The sellers might figure it's worth no less than $11,983 to you (fair condition to private party). Had they kept the exterior waxed and protected somewhat, it would be a $15K car all day long. You could probably look at 50 low mileage (under 20K miles) Firebirds and Camaro's and not find another car with paint issues worse than this one. Hopefully, the owner took care of the fluids over the past 15 yrs. If there's still original, muddy brown looking DexCool in the radiator, it just might be a pass.
Of approx 26 WS6's with under 30K miles on autotrader.com, only 3 cars are priced at or under $17K...the lowest at $16,750. Most are in the $20's.
Last edited by Firebrian; 08-12-2017 at 12:19 PM.
08-12-2017, 05:43 PM
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Depends on how it runs/drives and how the maintenance records check out. For example, it might need completely new brakes all around from severely rusted rotors and such - these things can happen when they sit outside for ages without ever being driven. Too many questions to give a fixed value at this point. But if it runs/drives perfect and has at least *some* evidence of having fluid changes in the last 15 years, then around $10k is probably good.
I wouldn't worry about keeping this one as a collector piece at all, this would be a good one to drive IMO. Too many others have been stashed with similar or lower mileage and kept in proper condition for this one to ever be a top tier collector piece. You could restore it with new paint and such, but it still won't be as valuable as one that's equally perfect and original - not to mention the high cost of said restoration. If that's what you want (a collector piece to store), take a pass on this one and look for one that's been properly cared for; this will cost you more up front, but won't need an expensive exterior restoration to be considered a true collector piece (and to be valued as such.)
I wouldn't worry about keeping this one as a collector piece at all, this would be a good one to drive IMO. Too many others have been stashed with similar or lower mileage and kept in proper condition for this one to ever be a top tier collector piece. You could restore it with new paint and such, but it still won't be as valuable as one that's equally perfect and original - not to mention the high cost of said restoration. If that's what you want (a collector piece to store), take a pass on this one and look for one that's been properly cared for; this will cost you more up front, but won't need an expensive exterior restoration to be considered a true collector piece (and to be valued as such.)
08-12-2017, 05:54 PM
#12
I don't feel the car was completely neglected, it just wasn't kept in a garage. I understand it will never be a top tier collector piece. But it does have some value. There can't be tons of these sitting around at less than 20,000 miles. I wouldn't buy it as a driver as I already have 5 vehicles.
I guess what I'm asking is this....in the year 2040 am I going to regret not having bought this car in 2017 due to a spike in value of similar cars?
I guess what I'm asking is this....in the year 2040 am I going to regret not having bought this car in 2017 due to a spike in value of similar cars?
08-12-2017, 07:49 PM
#13
TECH Enthusiast
Assuming these cars take off in value by 2040, your 17K vehicle will be near the rear of the pack of all the low mileage cars. So I agree with RPM WS6 that this car could end up being an ideal driver. It could have 10,000 miles put on it over the next 3-5 yrs and it would barely affect its value. Do that to a pristine original car and the depreciation would likely be a lot larger.
If you're hoping for a 2040 collectible this isn't the one to put away. If it were me with $15K I'd be looking at something much more unique. Maybe a 2001 anniversary black/gold Firehawk, a Berger/GMMG/SS, or some other low production vehicle. An SLP loaded 2002 Firehawk M6 with ILE suspension could be such a vehicle. Finding the "right" vehicle at an advantageous price is not easy. There are enough WS6's and SS's saved to make this decision a lot more demanding. I'd want to be real fussy. Those cars are out there and will still be low mileage cars in 2040....especially things like 1999 WS6 Anniversary cars, 2002 CETA's, and 2002 Camaro SS LE anniv cars.
I recall buying my first Muscle Mopar in 1992. I was looking for an inexpensive big block 1967-1971 that would be fun to take out to cruise nights, and still have the potential to be worth more down the road while driving it 2,000-3,000 miles per year. In fall 1992 the new LT1 Trans Ams cost $22K new. I bought my 1969 roadrunner with 55K miles in 1992 for $3000. It had a rebuilt engine, was uniquely optioned for a 4 speed manual, and ran like heck. How could you lose? Well, today, that same RR in that condition is probably $15K-$20K, while a 1999 SS M6 with 12K miles was $12,000. That decision was fairly easy.
If you're hoping for a 2040 collectible this isn't the one to put away. If it were me with $15K I'd be looking at something much more unique. Maybe a 2001 anniversary black/gold Firehawk, a Berger/GMMG/SS, or some other low production vehicle. An SLP loaded 2002 Firehawk M6 with ILE suspension could be such a vehicle. Finding the "right" vehicle at an advantageous price is not easy. There are enough WS6's and SS's saved to make this decision a lot more demanding. I'd want to be real fussy. Those cars are out there and will still be low mileage cars in 2040....especially things like 1999 WS6 Anniversary cars, 2002 CETA's, and 2002 Camaro SS LE anniv cars.
I recall buying my first Muscle Mopar in 1992. I was looking for an inexpensive big block 1967-1971 that would be fun to take out to cruise nights, and still have the potential to be worth more down the road while driving it 2,000-3,000 miles per year. In fall 1992 the new LT1 Trans Ams cost $22K new. I bought my 1969 roadrunner with 55K miles in 1992 for $3000. It had a rebuilt engine, was uniquely optioned for a 4 speed manual, and ran like heck. How could you lose? Well, today, that same RR in that condition is probably $15K-$20K, while a 1999 SS M6 with 12K miles was $12,000. That decision was fairly easy.
Last edited by Firebrian; 08-13-2017 at 07:24 AM.
08-13-2017, 04:41 AM
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The worst of it is where the hatch wraps around the car and come foward to a point. From that point, and about 3 inches rear ward the paint is fubar. Cracked, chipped, peeled etc. No saving it. The sail panel has some bubbling beginning but not horrendous. The nose panel has some spider webbing on the drivers side, as does the drivers door just below the window and stretching down about 4 inches, starting from the side view mirror and going to about the door handle. There are a 2 small scratches on the drivers door, lower edge of drivers ground effect is scraped. Drivers rear 1/4 panel has a 3 inch scrape that's would also dented slightly.
Assuming this cars take off in value by 2040, your 17K vehicle will be near the rear of the pack of all the low mileage cars. So I agree with RPM WS6 that this car could end up being an ideal driver. It could have 10,000 miles put on it over the next 3-5 yrs and it would barely affect its value. Do that to a pristine original car and the depreciation would likely be a lot larger.
If you're hoping for a 2040 collectible this isn't the one to put away. If it were me with $15K I'd be looking at something much more unique. Maybe a 2001 anniversary black/gold Firehawk, a Berger/GMMG/SS, or some other low production vehicle. An SLP loaded 2002 Firehawk M6 with ILE suspension could be such a vehicle. Finding the "right" vehicle at an advantageous price is not easy. There are enough WS6's and SS's saved to make this decision a lot more demanding. I'd want to be real fussy. Those cars are out there and will still be pretty low mileage cars in 2040....especially things like 1999 WS6 Anniversary cars, 2002 CETA's, and 2002 Camaro SS LE anniv cars.
If you're hoping for a 2040 collectible this isn't the one to put away. If it were me with $15K I'd be looking at something much more unique. Maybe a 2001 anniversary black/gold Firehawk, a Berger/GMMG/SS, or some other low production vehicle. An SLP loaded 2002 Firehawk M6 with ILE suspension could be such a vehicle. Finding the "right" vehicle at an advantageous price is not easy. There are enough WS6's and SS's saved to make this decision a lot more demanding. I'd want to be real fussy. Those cars are out there and will still be pretty low mileage cars in 2040....especially things like 1999 WS6 Anniversary cars, 2002 CETA's, and 2002 Camaro SS LE anniv cars.
08-13-2017, 09:18 AM
#16
TECH Enthusiast
The car still has great potential to someone for a hp-upgrade or just a driver to thrash around for the next 100K miles in any sort of weather. What a nice daily driver in a non-winter climate that would make! I'd still touch base with the owners on my thoughts and let them know you'd be interested at a much lower level. You have nothing to lose. It's very unlikely that whatever 4th gen you choose is going to be worth keeping for 10 yrs and appreciate significantly in value. Having done the weekend "toy" thing with my SS for the past 5 years, and always parking out of the sun...I'd have much preferred to have a 17K mile "beater" that I could drive anywhere, anytime and not worry about being fastidious with detailing or cleanliness. Just drive the doors off the car. While a $5K repaint might be an idea, it will never measure up to nicely applied factory paint job, especially for longevity. From my experiences in the collector car world, repaints don't tend to last near as long as factory prepped cars. And flaws from improper preparation/application could start showing up in only a couple years.
One of the very first cars I considered buying in 2011 was the rarest by far and priced very right. I still don't know why I didn't jump on it. It was a can't miss car imo and only 50 miles away. 2000 Firehawk formula hardtop M6 with 28K miles in either pewter or silver...at $12,000 asking price. IIRC they built 4-6 cars in that color. Regardless if lots of buyers "hate" pewter, being that low a production certainly wasn't a handicap. I recall meeting a woman outside BJ's 2 years ago who saw my SS and struck up a conversation. It seems she owned a Pewter 2002 WS6 M6 years ago and had been looking for one ever since....and had yet to find one. There are buyers for everything.
One of the very first cars I considered buying in 2011 was the rarest by far and priced very right. I still don't know why I didn't jump on it. It was a can't miss car imo and only 50 miles away. 2000 Firehawk formula hardtop M6 with 28K miles in either pewter or silver...at $12,000 asking price. IIRC they built 4-6 cars in that color. Regardless if lots of buyers "hate" pewter, being that low a production certainly wasn't a handicap. I recall meeting a woman outside BJ's 2 years ago who saw my SS and struck up a conversation. It seems she owned a Pewter 2002 WS6 M6 years ago and had been looking for one ever since....and had yet to find one. There are buyers for everything.
08-13-2017, 09:03 PM
#17
The car still has great potential to someone for a hp-upgrade or just a driver to thrash around for the next 100K miles in any sort of weather. What a nice daily driver in a non-winter climate that would make! I'd still touch base with the owners on my thoughts and let them know you'd be interested at a much lower level. You have nothing to lose. It's very unlikely that whatever 4th gen you choose is going to be worth keeping for 10 yrs and appreciate significantly in value. Having done the weekend "toy" thing with my SS for the past 5 years, and always parking out of the sun...I'd have much preferred to have a 17K mile "beater" that I could drive anywhere, anytime and not worry about being fastidious with detailing or cleanliness. Just drive the doors off the car. While a $5K repaint might be an idea, it will never measure up to nicely applied factory paint job, especially for longevity. From my experiences in the collector car world, repaints don't tend to last near as long as factory prepped cars. And flaws from improper preparation/application could start showing up in only a couple years.
One of the very first cars I considered buying in 2011 was the rarest by far and priced very right. I still don't know why I didn't jump on it. It was a can't miss car imo and only 50 miles away. 2000 Firehawk formula hardtop M6 with 28K miles in either pewter or silver...at $12,000 asking price. IIRC they built 4-6 cars in that color. Regardless if lots of buyers "hate" pewter, being that low a production certainly wasn't a handicap. I recall meeting a woman outside BJ's 2 years ago who saw my SS and struck up a conversation. It seems she owned a Pewter 2002 WS6 M6 years ago and had been looking for one ever since....and had yet to find one. There are buyers for everything.
One of the very first cars I considered buying in 2011 was the rarest by far and priced very right. I still don't know why I didn't jump on it. It was a can't miss car imo and only 50 miles away. 2000 Firehawk formula hardtop M6 with 28K miles in either pewter or silver...at $12,000 asking price. IIRC they built 4-6 cars in that color. Regardless if lots of buyers "hate" pewter, being that low a production certainly wasn't a handicap. I recall meeting a woman outside BJ's 2 years ago who saw my SS and struck up a conversation. It seems she owned a Pewter 2002 WS6 M6 years ago and had been looking for one ever since....and had yet to find one. There are buyers for everything.
It is a car I've always wanted although I'd prefer an automatic. I'm starting to think that I'm going to offer in the 7500 neighborhood. Which will probably be rejected, but at least I will have tried to buy the car.
08-14-2017, 04:01 AM
#18
LS1Tech Administrator
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You and me both. 
We are a rare breed; most folks shopping for these cars prefer the manual, some even demand it. Because desirability is lower for the autos, we enjoy a lower purchase price for equally nice examples with the transmission we actually want. The downside is that fewer auto cars tend to have been garage queens, so finding one with low mileage is usually harder than a comparable manual car (at least this has generally been the case in my region.)
We are a rare breed; most folks shopping for these cars prefer the manual, some even demand it. Because desirability is lower for the autos, we enjoy a lower purchase price for equally nice examples with the transmission we actually want. The downside is that fewer auto cars tend to have been garage queens, so finding one with low mileage is usually harder than a comparable manual car (at least this has generally been the case in my region.)
08-14-2017, 08:06 AM
#19
TECH Enthusiast
Count me in on the A4. There are many times with my T56 that I wish I could push a button to set me into "automatic" mode. So much easier with the A4 only having to think about the road ahead and your throttle pedal. I was looking for a decent A4 in 2011 and ended up running into several low mileage M6's. Contrary to what my original intentions were....I bought one of the under 15K mile M6's because the price was right.
The only decent A4 I ran into under $15K was a 2002 silver Trans Am with 42K miles. The car was ultra mint looking and formerly owned by an older couple. I just couldn't get the dealer to come down from $11.5K-12.0K to $10.5K-$11.0K. I bought a 12K mile SS M6 for the same price they wanted for the A4 Trans Am with 30K more miles. What's funny is they continued to call me for months (car still unsold) even after I told them I bought a better car for the same money. I think they assumed they had "landed" me after I spent 2 hours crawling all over that car at the dealership. But, you always have to have "walkability." They carried that car in inventory from at least early November when I first saw it, through early April when they stopped calling me. I'm sure they didn't have too many lookers during that winter, which by the way was pretty brutal from mid-Jan to March. I was snow bound with my SS for nearly 2 months.
The only decent A4 I ran into under $15K was a 2002 silver Trans Am with 42K miles. The car was ultra mint looking and formerly owned by an older couple. I just couldn't get the dealer to come down from $11.5K-12.0K to $10.5K-$11.0K. I bought a 12K mile SS M6 for the same price they wanted for the A4 Trans Am with 30K more miles. What's funny is they continued to call me for months (car still unsold) even after I told them I bought a better car for the same money. I think they assumed they had "landed" me after I spent 2 hours crawling all over that car at the dealership. But, you always have to have "walkability." They carried that car in inventory from at least early November when I first saw it, through early April when they stopped calling me. I'm sure they didn't have too many lookers during that winter, which by the way was pretty brutal from mid-Jan to March. I was snow bound with my SS for nearly 2 months.
Last edited by Firebrian; 08-14-2017 at 08:23 AM.
08-15-2017, 04:08 PM
#20
TECH Junkie
Frankly, the only thing making it at all special is the relatively low mileage and being a last year (2002) example. Beyond that, it's a garden variety WS6 car in a common color with MUCH more wear and tear than it should have for the mileage. Member NC01TA has a bright red Trans Am with more than twice the mileage of this '02 WS6, I think over 50k, and you should see the pictures of it...the car could pass for 10k miles. He's an owner who really knows how to take care of a car that still gets driven. Examples like his, even with significantly more miles, will be more desirable in the future than ones in rough shape which just happen to have low miles but nothing else particularly special to offer.
The advice in this thread is spot on as usual.Even with that crazy low mileage, it is a car to avoid, although it breaks my heart to hear about it.
From a recent show. Still winning the trophies with 56k miles on the car. 80% -90% highway miles but still....
