skat4160

I recently came across a 2000 Z28 listed for sale with 30,000 miles on it. Automatic, leather seats all else appears original. Carfax does not show any evidence of a new engine. Would it? The ask is 12K but seller will take 10K. I suggested around 8K without seeing it in person. Owner rejected. Is the price too high for an 18 year old car even if it has the original engine at 30,000 miles?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

What makes you think it would have a new engine? Do you suspect the mileage of being false? Carfax wouldn't know anything about engine replacement unless it was reported to them (and many shops don't report repairs).

Without more details and especially detailed pictures, it's hard to say what a car like this might be worth. Location also matters. $8-10k-ish is probably about right, depending on location and various details about the car and its condition, but some 30k mile cars aren't even as nice as some 60k mile cars - so I wouldn't pass judgement sight unseen.

Age has little to do with value here, as most 18 year old cars would only be worth a fraction of what a "special interest" vehicle can bring. It's all about supply and demand when it comes to the enthusiast market. Having said that, demand, relative to other LS1 F-bodies at least, is not very high for an A4 Z28, so the seller might have to drop his bottom dollar if he wants to get it sold ASAP. Or, maybe he doesn't mind waiting a bit, and he might find a buyer for something closer to $10k during the spring or summer. I certainly wouldn't feel at all bad about paying $10k if the car was as nice as a 30k mile example can possibly be, and if it was everything for which I was personally looking. But if it was a bit rough for the mileage and not exactly what I wanted, then I'd just move on at that price.

As an example, I'd realistically value my own '98 Z28 A4 at around the $10k point (+/-$500) to the right buyer. It's two years older than the one you're looking at, but has 40% less mileage (18k) and is highly detailed/prepped for local show duty, has full original documentation and just two owners (my term being since 2004). Not the most desirable example in terms of trim level or transmission, but it's also very hard to find one in this sort of condition that doesn't come with an SS or 35th LE type premium. In other words, if you want a very low mileage example of a "special interest" vehicle, you'll have to be prepared to pay a premium beyond what other "normal" type cars of similar age would be worth (even if it's not the most desirable trim level, simply because the alternative examples will mostly be in lesser condition with higher miles).

skat4160

I always question low mileage on a car that old. Pics look like EC but have not seen it in person. Registered in NY since 2000 but claims it has always been garage kept and only driven in the summer months so has never seen snow or salt. Is now in Maryland for sale by a family member. The Carfax report shows all emissions testing and oil changes up until the last 9 years then No oil changes. That makes me wonder. It is not a show car or been modified which I like. I own a 99 Z28 original and don't want all that extra stuff but mine has 104+ miles and I am looking for a 99-02 that has not been modified to last me the rest of my life. I do not like the body style of the new Camaros.(although my husband would love it if I bought a new one). Just not my style.

topless2002SS

lol I have a 1983 Monte Carlo SS with under 40K one owner miles.

skat4160

Nice but I am a Chevy Camaro Z28 Girl.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

No reason to question the mileage just because of the age. Again, my '98 only has 18k miles and it's even older. Not to mention, I've seen several of these cars in recent years with only 4-digit mileage - some have even less than that. You'll find quite a few folks on this site with 4th gens that have mileage under 40k, several have even been up for sale recently in our classified section.

Unless there is some red flag regarding the stated mileage on various records or the overall condition of the vehicle, I see no reason to disbelieve the mileage, especially on a special interest car (which is often owned as a weekend toy or second vehicle) that's also been owned in a region where winter storage is common for such vehicles.

Again, Carfax only knows what gets reported to them. If the previous owner used to go to a shop that reported every service (such as oil changes), and then started going to a different shop that didn't report service work (or doing the work himself) then it wouldn't show up any longer. So this gap in Carfax records doesn't necessarily mean that the oil hasn't been changed in the last 9 years. There is no requirement for shops to report such maintenance work to Carfax. FWIW, there are no oil change service records on the Carfax for my '98 during the entire 14 year period I've owned it because I've done every service myself. I keep a log of this, including dates and mileage, but there aren't any Carfax records of such. Have you asked the current owner if he has records of maintenance work during that gap, perhaps some sort of personal log similar to mine or maybe shop receipts?

Carfax is a nice tool, but it only gives you part of the picture and doesn't always contain every record (or, in the case of cars older than 1981, any records at all). There is always some risk involved with a used car, and sometimes you have to rely on the apparent character of the seller, your instincts and, above all else, an in-person inspection of the car with a careful and knowledgeable eye.

I'm not a huge fan of the new Camaros either, for the same reasons of styling and gadget/tech overload. I liked 4th gens enough to buy two of them brand new, but 5th/6th gens just haven't struck me with the same motivation.

AnotherWs6

iTrader: (17)

Right. Oil changes done by the owner aren't going to show up on a car fax. Oil changes done by a local shop aren't going to show up either. Carfax is a very poor tool to track maintenance. It's a reasonable tool to track accidents but is far from fool proof.

You and/or someone in the know has to go look at it. Only way to do it. Inspect it, drive it, talk to the owner a lot. 10 grand is a reasonable price for that car. I paid close to double for mine with the same miles. Not apples to apples but still.

There are a lot more low mile cars out there than you might think so dont get jumpy.

Firebrian

$10K is a fair price, though maybe not for slow winter time pricing. I reference a recent 1999 Camaro SS with 9K miles that was for sale for $13,500 and didn't sell. At $13K it might have. Figure a 30K miles Z28 at $3K less imo (2K for miles and 1K for SS). And even then $10K is strongish money for a private sale, even if the same car is probably $13K-$16K "retail" at many "sports car dealerships."

$8K would be way too cheap imo unless something was wrong with the car...like peeling paint on the roof and hood, or torn up dash/interior. I doubt these are an issue on this car which seems like it was properly taken care of. Leather is a nice option on these. No reason at all to fear a replacement engine at 30K miles. My current '99 SS is at 19K miles. And I sold my 1998 Z28 A4 with 115K miles on the original drive train and still running quite and strong.

At 30K miles your car would be about due for a trans fluid change...differential too? Coolant should have already been changed at least once. Watch out for AC issues, brakes, suspension, tires. They could pop up at this time if only due to age. I suspect the tires were changed out already at 15K-25K miles....though on a T rated Z28 tire (120 mph), you can get 60K miles.... I know I did on my last set of Z28 VR's iirc.

I'd try to snag the car for $9000-$9500 assuming no issues. Counter-offering $8K when you didn't even see the car wasn't the coolest thing to do. What if the car is superbly mint for the miles? It's worth well more. What if it has whines, clunks and bangs in the drive train? It's not even worth the $8k. Some 1998-2000 Z28's with 5K miles or less are likely worth $13K or more. With low enough miles up to $17K I'd suppose. Age isn't the issue....miles and condition are.

You have to figure you'll be spending $1K-$1500 on it in the next couple of yrs to take care of stuff that they didn't or that was coming due soon.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Very few Z28s originally came with non-Z rated tires, it would be unlikely (though not impossible) to encounter one. Technically the non-Z rated tires were standard (under RPO "QCB"), but most examples were ordered with RPO "QFZ" (Goodyear Eagle RS-A, all-season performance) or "QLC" (Goodyear Eagle GS-C, summer performance). Both were Z-rated and sized at 245/50/16 (vs. 235/55/16 for the standard "QCB" tires).

If it has the performance axle option for the automatic (RPO "GU5", 3.23 gears), then the Z rated tire option was originally mandatory.

01FormulaTA

iTrader: (20)

check the classifieds on this site, there are several 98-02 FBodies on this forum with low mileage and for sports car in general it is fairly common to find low mileage examples as most buy them as a second vehicle and not a daily driver....10k is a fair price for those miles considering its a 2000 and A4. M6 and 2001 and 2002 with those miles would prob bring 50% more money ($15k+), not only bc they are newer but also because they came with an LS6 intake, and no EGR is a plus as well...see link below for all the differences bw 98-02

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...s-98-02-a.html

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Not sure that anyone would pay $15k+ for a stock, garden variety M6 '02 Z28 with 30k miles; dreamers might list them at prices like this, but those cars stay for sale forever.

Here are some more comprehensive links regarding model year differences for those who might be interested:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/chevrolet...s-pleases.html (starting around post #8)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/new-ls1-o...need-know.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/new-ls1-o...-f-bodies.html

01FormulaTA

iTrader: (20)

Depends on the market, i would tend to agree but 30k miles is somewhat of the threshold for what is considered an exceptionally low mileage car....down here in Houston low mileage (30k miles and under) T-Top M6 cars bring a premium with a Z28 being at low end of that spectrum, IMO the market here commands higher prices bc you can drive these cars year round and not have to store them for the winter or worry about them getting torn up during the colder months of the year ...up north I see they tend to bring significantly less money but in part I think thats bc (in my experience) cars from the Rust Belt and further North are typically not in as good of condition as cars from the South regardless of the miles or being garage kept, so yah theoretically I could see the same car down here with 30k miles, 1 owner extra clean garage kept and M6 it could bring $15k IMO

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

To me, it seems to be the opposite. Using Chicago as an example, cost of living here is generally a bit higher than in most of the south, and finding nice condition 15+ year old cars is also tougher here precisely because of the weather (only those which have been summer toys/garage queens are still very nice). So you'll have to pay a premium here for a nice one, otherwise incur the cost of shipping or traveling to the south/southwest to get a nice one. I'd also disagree about the garage queens from the north being in worse shape overall. We don't have the humidity here (some of my friends from FL and LA complain about things like rotors and such getting surface rust even in a garage just from the extreme humidity - that simply doesn't happen here), and we don't have the super intense sun baking the paint/trim/interior during the summer either. Garage queens generally age very well here, as long as it's been kept in a dry building with a cement floor.

I'm sure there are pockets of regions throughout the nation where these cars are in higher demand and have higher than average value, but the vast majority won't get $15k for a stock 30k mile M6 Z28, even if it's an '02. Maybe an SOM 'vert might bring that, to the right buyer (but even that would likely take time), otherwise you really don't see any stock or lightly modded LS1 Camaro in the 5-digit mileage range moving at the ~$15K-and-up price point unless it's an SS.

skat4160

The seller put me on the spot in conversation as to what my offer Might be . I kept declining to answer because I had not seen it or drove it but she was insistent so I told her my offer at this point would probably start with an 8. She wants 10 but is listed at 12 and has been trying to sell since last July. If it were a local sale it would be easier but since it is out of state it is more difficult. No reason to travel if we are not even close in price.

NC01TA

IMO $10k is not overpriced if the car is a non-abused stock example with just 1 or 2 owners. It is worth a weekend to check it out. Once there, if you see 'issues' then negotiate a bit on price. Make sure they know you have cash in hand. They won't let you walk away if you ask for a few hundred dollars off. Look for things to negotiate on, especially the tires. Worn out? Mongrel brand? Originals? Check the date code while there. I don't quite understand your worries about a new engine. Why would it be?

skat4160

Been advertised and not bought since July of 2017 so I wonder why? Is it the price? Has people that saw it in person and saw something that has not been disclosed? I don't know what I don't know. Just because we all need to keep in mind that anyone we do not know selling something for money has a reason to not be totally honest. Although I would love to find an older Z28 with less miles on it than mine I also do not want to overpay for one that could turn out to have "issues" that would cost me more money. I have looked at a couple over the last few years locally and walked away for various reasons but I think one with that low of mileage owned by someone that is not an enthusiast like a lot of people on here would drive it. Why else own it?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Could be. If the seller was previously firm on that $12k price then the car would be a tough sell based on the specs. Perhaps they have just now come to the reality that being negotiable is necessary? Some folks get it in their mind that a car is worth a certain amount of money even if nobody is willing to pay it - so they end up turning away a lot of legitimate buyers, sometimes for months or even years, until they are willing to accept the reality of what the car is actually worth.

I do understand your concerns here. This is why I hate to travel to look at a car; there are so many disappointments in this market, especially if you're the picky type (like me), and you can bet that just about any used car is going to have some things that haven't been disclosed by the seller (sometimes due to dishonesty, or sometimes simple ignorance - though some of these things might be pretty minor or subjective). But, keep in mind, there may be other reasons why the car hasn't sold (such as the seller being previously unwilling to negotiate, or the car being poorly advertised) that aren't necessarily a ding against the car itself.

Well, to be fair, this might be exactly why they are selling it. You said it's now in a different state being sold by a family member. Perhaps the original owner was an enthusiast who used the car only for hobby purposes, hence the low mileage and winter storage. Perhaps he/she is now deceased or too ill to be bothered with it, etc., so now a relative has been tasked with getting it sold (or has inherited it and has no use for it.) Lots of possibly benign scenarios here.

skat4160

Well I was told that it was moved from NY to Maryland because of the question of the weather and the owner was willing to come down on the price 2k for me because the daughter felt that since I owned one I would take care of it. They claim they want it to go to a good home. Is it a car or a family pet? I don't believe that for a minute. I sold my last Camaro to a guy that wanted it for his 17 year old son. I asked him if he was sure he wanted to buy him a sports car and he assured me his son was very responsible. I sold it to him and 6 months later my husband saw it driving down the road on the opposite side of town with the front end wrecked. Felt bad about that but I still sold it to him. I would not lower my price 2k on a phone call just because the interested party owned one. Would you?.

NC01TA

^^ People do negotiate on the phone. Everything for sale is usually an asking price. You sounded sincere on the phone so the seller hoped it might motivate you. Yes, I have lowered prices on the phone for many people just to hope to get them to come out and see the car. Once I knew they were here, and knowing how nice the car actually was, it would be a sale. I just did it at Christmas on a C4 Corvette. I actually came down over $3k from my asking price. RPM WS6 helped me out actually with his personal experience. It worked. My car sold, even at Christmas.
As far as low mileage cars, you appear to have very little understanding of some people's reasons for owning cars. There are many owners who are called 'weekend warriors'. Why? They drive their cars on sunny summer weekend days only, sometimes putting on less than 20 miles each trip. 500 miles a year would be a lot of miles! Sometimes they go to a cruise-in or to a car show. The miles add up very slowly. Then there are collectors who treat cars like a coin collection. They look at them and don't drive them. I have a collector car neighbor who has 12 cars that just sit, including an original 1968 Mustang with 11,000 miles, perhaps the lowest in the USA. I just bought my 2009 C6 with 5,000 miles on it. It was owned by one of these 'collectors' and the car was never even titled. I'm the first registered owner after 9 model years have passed by.
Yes, you are smart to be leery of any car that hasn't sold for a long period of time, but RPM WS6 covered many of the reasons why. There may be problems but a firm $12k may have been a tad too high for many. People love to dicker and when told 'no' they move on. You actually could be the first person to negotiate a price down to a reasonable level. Pat yourself on the back and check it out. If no good, so what? You lost some money on gas & fast food. Been there, done that. On the other hand, what if it is a beautiful car that needs very little? An excellent purchase. Good luck!

skat4160

I do understand why some people do not drive their cars. They are a few and special group of people and I am grateful for them as I now have the opportunity to find and purchase one. I am just not one of them. I grew up in the 60"s where the mind set was save it for a special occasion. My mom was that person. Then a natural disaster ruined it all without her ever having the pleasure of enjoying it. I bought my 99 Z28 off the showroom floor and have driven it and enjoyed it daily. No regrets. I do not have another car so it has more mileage than I wish at this point in my life and that is why I am looking for another one. I am going to think about this one and may reach out to the seller again. Thanks for your advise all of you.