LukeSMaroonMachine

I currently have a 94 lt1 camaro and am thinking of moving up to an ls this spring/summer. Just want to know more about the platform before I jump in bed with it. Are there any problems I should watch out for? Common things to watch out for? What to expect when I get one? I plan to eventually do some serious performance modifications and would likely be getting a fbody ls1. Thanks in advance.
Luke

eseibel67

iTrader: (10)

No need to think, there is no downside. From 1998 to 2002 however, they do get progressively better.

Mappinsj

98-99 and 1/2 ls1 in camaros are the older style block that handles less power than 99 and a half and UP. they also don't circulate oil as well at high RPM

01-02 have ls6 intake, but truck cams, which equate to almost a negligible difference.

late 2000 to 02 have 241 heads, also not much difference.

01-02 have no EGR

LukeSMaroonMachine

So is the lower oil flow etc. With the older ones a big deal for a big build? I would like to go for a big supercharged build eventually. Can the oil pump be upgraded to equal it out or not?

That_One_Person

iTrader: (4)

Oh yeah most definitely. Try to find a low mileage/low owner count if you can. I picked my 01 up for $10k with 27k on it. A Ford dealer didn't know wtf they had lol.

sillysspeed

iTrader: (21)

Never heard of the 98-99 blocks not handling as much power or having oiling issues at high rpms... Maybe so but never heard of it. I spin mine to 7000 I do have an ls6 oil pump. Heads are all virtually the same besides the perimeter bolts and a little more casting flash on the 98 heads. I know the eariler blocks have 2 different length head bolts.

Either way an ls1 stock internals or small/medium size cam with a good intake and exhaust is still very relevant 15+ years later


With all that being said if you can find an ls2 on a good deal I'd go with that. 4.0 bore for more head choices, has upgraded internal parts and block is stronger.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

That's a new one to me.

Some '01+ cars received LS6 blocks, perhaps that's what you're thinking about, but that engine didn't even exist until model year 2001. Those are technically a better block, but the real world difference in potential and strength when modified is marginal at best. Tons of people have done just fine making big power on the LS1 block.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

The engines do tend to make a bit more power in the later years, and items such as oil pump and rod bolts did get better, but it's not necessarily true that the rest of the car got progressively better. In fact, outside of the engine, the later models are of somewhat lesser quality in my experience. Some examples:

- Roof panel bubbles. The only year of LS1 car that wasn't affected by this was 1998 (actually even the very late '98s, built May '98 or later, are also affected.) All '99+ F-bodies already have or will suffer from this problem (details can be found in the applicable Paint & Body Work section sticky.)

- Window trim. About 1-2 months into production of the 2001 model year cars, GM changed the windshield and rear hatch glass trim to a matte black version (the older ones were glossy.) This new matte black version isn't as UV resistant as the older trim, and the finish deteriorates and cracks more easily.

- Rear view mirror. This is more of an opinion thing, but starting in 2001 the rear view mirror design was completely changed, including a different housing shape and relocation of the map light buttons from the front to the bottom. It's my opinion that the older mirror looked and felt like a better quality piece, but not everyone might agree.

- Lower door trim. GM used to apply a rubber seal to the bottom of each door, this was in addition to the normal weather stripping that was attached to the body. This additional noise/weather seal disappeared as a factory item in either 2000 or 2001.

- Hood insulator. 1999 models were the last ones to receive these under-hood insulators. The WS6/SS/Firehawk cars never received them as they had a different hood, but base model V8s with metal hoods were issued this item prior to model year 2000 (Camaro versions came with a bowtie engraved in the center, and Firebird versions came with a Pontiac arrowhead.)

- Front fender guards. 1998 seems to be the last year for these from the factory (and some late '98s seem to have not come with them.) It's a small, but strong, plastic foot/pad that's installed just inboard of the mounting tabs for the front fenders. It makes jacking related damage to the fenders less likely.

- Rear end. 1998 models were the last 4th gen year to come with an Auburn posi rear as the base G80/limited slip offering. Starting in 1999, the base limited slip rear was a Torsen unit (upgraded differentials were available on SLP cars, but not for base V8 models). IMO, the Auburn rear is superior due to less noise and, for lack of a better description, better predictability/smoother engagement IMO. In terms of durability, the Torsen was supposed to be better in this regard as it has no clutches, but they seem to be no less failure prone in practice (if anything they are more prone to failure IMO).

....Just some things off the top of my head, as a person who has owned just about every model year of LS1 F-body including a couple of them brand new, point being that later models are not necessarily better in all ways. There are several other small differences, most of which are subjective and/or of little consequence. I always recommend finding the best example you can for your budget, and pay for/seek out better condition and lower mileage vs. holding out for a later model year. In terms of performance, they are all with 5-10hp of each other stock, so this isn't really much of a factor. It's nice to get the LS6 intake and better oil pump stock with the '01+ cars, and the '99+ PCM is easier to tune for extreme applications, but otherwise I haven't seen any appreciable mechanical advantage to the later model years during my ownership experiences.

Firebrian

The Firebirds generally have more market demand than the Camaro's. Hence they will cost more. Pontiac and the name Firebird is in retirement and contributes to that stronger demand.

Generally, I'd value a Trans Am at 10% more than a base Z28. An SLP SS with minimal to no extra SLP options is similarly priced to a Trans Am. Figure the WS6 at 10-15% more than SS/Trans Am. The base Firebird is priced in between base Z28 and Trans Am.

Spend some time looking through some of the "what's it worth" threads over the past 12 months to give you an idea as to what makes each car worth more or less than another one. If you're shooting for a higher mileage car, then a lot of the differences fade into the sunset.

The Pontiacs have plastic upper inner door panels that tend to crack. This is normal, even if unsightly. There are work-arounds to treat the cracks before they get too long. The head light doors on the Pontiacs are another weak link. Power window motors are weak on both brands of F bodies. I'd almost prefer no head lamp doors (ie Camaro), no door panel cracks, manual crank windows, screw on rear antennae (Camaro in earlier years), no roof panel bubbling, etc. The SS and WS6 come with power steering coolers that will eventually leak and contaminate the engine coolant. It's not a big deal to jump them out or plug the lines. DexCool was the original coolant and can be a problem if mixed with non-compatible fluids (ie mixing EG with PG).

RPM WS6 has some old threads on all the differences between each year. There are some great threads on listing most every pitfall you could run into on these cars. Considering you've already experienced the LT-1, the LS-1 should only be easier. Good luck.

1 FMF

iTrader: (1)

i think the oil issue was the later years had an ls6 style block which breathed better in the crankcase at high rpm, and allowed for more power because of reduced windage at higher rpm. this did not affect circulating liquid oil under pressure for lubrication. i don't think it's a significant deal breaker on choosing a car/engine.

i had a 1999 ss, and then upgraded to a 2002 ss. Both were manual transmission.
i remember my '99 having a little bit more low end torque than my 2002, which is due to the '99 having a smaller cam [which required egr]. but if you are going to do rebuild or mod for power then that wouldn't matter.
i thought later model years had a better engine computer, which maybe allows for better repogramming which is where the hard part really is. that's sort of what i remember reading over the years, those who do it in the pcm section would be more accurate & specific regarding it.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Agreed on all counts. Just to clarify though, Camaro always came with a fixed mast antenna from the factory. Power antenna was only available on Pontiacs and has definitely been another problem area as they age. One thing that will prolong the life of these motors is to unplug them during the winter, for a daily driver. The stress of pushing the antenna through snow and ice tends to kill them. Also, power steering coolers became standard on all V8 models in either '00 or '01, so that problem extends beyond the SS/WS6/Firehawk cars once you get into the later model years.

Here is one with a lot of info:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/chevrolet...s-pleases.html

The '98-'00 cam was actually a bit bigger, at least in terms of lift/duration numbers. The published specs have been:

Stock 98-00 Cam:
Duration@.050: 198.86 intake 209.25 exhaust
Lift: .498 intake .497 exhaust
LSA: 119.45

Stock 01-02 Cam:
Duration@.050: 196.37 intake 208.72 exhaust
Lift: .464 intake .479 exhaust
LSA: 115.92

Not a huge difference, but you're right about the EGR being specific to only the earlier cars. '01+ received the LQ4/9 truck cam, which should have actually resulted in a bit more low end torque for those later years. It's hard to perceive this difference between two stock examples though, as the earlier cars had a smaller throttle body cam so less pedal travel was needed for similar tip-in response. This sort of has the effect of making those cars feel a bit more torquey/responsive under light throttle. The difference in pedal travel was pretty noticeable to me when I used to drive my '98 and '02 back-to-back.

1998 had a one-year-only PCM, so there are less tuning options and the PCM has some tuning limitations for extreme [especially forced induction] applications. For a typical bolt-on or heads/cam build, the '98 PCM will do just fine in the hands of an experienced tuner. Tuning options and capabilities are generally equally for all '99+ cars, though I've heard that '01+ did get a better processor.

JustinZ

iTrader: (1)

These cars are getting a little harder to find these days. Well the ones that haven't been beat to death and/or are way overpriced. I would say be patient and try to find a clean example with the least amount of mods/issues possible. I just picked up a 1999 M6 Z28 black on black with 74k miles bone stock for $7500. It took me a few months of looking every day to find what I wanted but in the end I think it was worth it. A stockish, lower mileage, M6 that isn't way overpriced seems to be especially hard to find. I came from an LT1 corvette and dont regret it for a second.