SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

think there are some pictures in the gallery. There’s nothing special about the 7” width so don’t feel you’re limited to that size. I can make them from 4.5" wide all the way up to 17" if you wanted in half inch increments. What you want to do is first consider which tires you want THEN pick the corresponding wheel sizes that are suggested from the tire manufacture...not the other way around.

I have some final weights for the folks who were interested in them.

A set of street version Bolted RT's fronts came out to 11.5lbs. The rears came out to 14.5lbs. I believe those numbers are about in line with other setups...maybe slightly less.

BadBoo79

This is cool and should give more options to the street/strip crowd.

What will the options be on front wheel backspacing?

Will new styles be available or will it be the same designs as the bolted drag wheels?

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

1.75 will be atypical. We can go slightly bigger depending on the brake setup.

Regarding styles, essentially it will be open. If you see a style in ANY wheel, road-race, drag race etc...If you like a welded design that you'd want but do not see them in the bolted styles...we can make it happen for you. For example, the D6 wheel, they are only available in a welded style...but we can change it to bolted without problems. No additional charges are incurred.

I'm going to make a comparison between wheel choices shortly to sum up differences between manufacture choices. It should be a quick guidline to help each customer make choices.

BadBoo79

Regarding the bolt-in centers, does that hold true for the race wheels as well (i.e. could I get a welded center style as a bolted wheel?)

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Sure, we can do it for drag racing wheel or road racing wheels. To clarify, this is turning a welded style into a bolted wheel. Not the other way around.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Here's a few pictures of options we can create:

Billet Caps:


Anodized center:

SuperSport4life

iTrader: (7)

Hey SJM,
I like wheels that are not bolted like the Floyd RT or the Bogart GT's. Are they going to be produced with the new street technology?? I know you listed what these new wheels are going to roughly weigh, how much do your track only Bogarts weigh to get a comparison. Thanks in advance!

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

We've made wheels as you've suggested, but by doing so, we are limited to using an outside source shell manufactures such as what Billet specialty uses. We do not have the same control over production. The wheel they build right now is essentially like our 2 piece street/strip designs we've custom-made for years. We have a few F-bodies and Mustangs using them still, they are in the gallery too. The primary difference between Billet Specialties and ours was the center design (they mill their own centers as we do)...so the design looks different. The one-piece shells do not have the available options in regards to backspace and fitment needs. Just as our Bogart’s were...the centers are welded on the 1 piece shell. The front shells used, I have seen them break as obviously Billets new setup break...I have difficulty calling them a street/strip design anymore nor have we pushed them for this and other reasons. For the people who disagree regarding my discussions, my comments are not to downgrade another manufactures product...there are many choices, it’s up to you what you feel works best in your situation. I discuss differences.

We will only offer the street version in a bolted wheel. Our drag components, we have such a small number of damages over 15 years (literally about 7 on 4th gen F-bodies…not like the 100’s some may allude to)…I suggest that the folks who want our drag wheels and considered using them off the track against design intent, I strongly suggest staying with our Bolted Drag designs.

Our drag designed wheels retain far more advantages over our (or others) street style (comparing same sizes). Keeping to a LS1 discussion here (which by nature built differently using different material than one of our standard drag wheels meant for lighter vehicles), the 4th gen version drag fronts weight ~9lbs, the rears weigh ~10-11lbs. I can build our drag i.e. 15x3.5” down to ~6.75lbs! I would consider this design being anything but a drag wheel. Use those on the street, you WILL break them. Maybe these designs if bought used not knowing what they have are folks who are complaining…what do you expect though when you use a wheel that is 6.75lbs which is definitely a track only wheel and its used as a street wheel…it will not last.

Though the difference in weight sounds small, it’s actually quite large. For every pound difference you see, a general rule of thumb would be like adding a minimum of 4 lbs to your car. For example, one rear drag wheel compared to one street wheel i.e. ~10 compared to ~14 would be like 16 pounds. That would equate to 32 lbs of converted weight left on your car. The added weight correlates to longer braking distances, slower suspension reaction, more driveline stress etc. Personally, I never cared for the street 15" trends I've been seeing. Based on comments others have made towards some responses I may have made in posts, I feel it’s getting old that I keep discussing the measureable differences. We are trying to adjust to what racers want even though it defies some performance differences. Ultimately, you are the customers, we need to adapt to what you ask for.

Zmg00camaross

iTrader: (11)

well if you can help me i just want a prostar or a discontiuned greg wheel five spoke. that i can drive around on the street and look badass and not bend a wheel when i hit a pot hole. and take to the track and tear it up. let me know if you can help

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

We are not offering Greg Weld or Weld Racing wheels.

Zmg00camaross

iTrader: (11)

This I know I just like the style and want
To be able drive on the street. Thought you had a simlar style

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Ok. The way you wrote it, it sounded like you were looking for those two styles, not asking if we can build a similar style.

To answer your question then, we can build you a wheel you can drive on the street and take to the street. We've got a variety of styles. You can choose any wheel from the P1 section of our website. They will all be bolted styles. If you do not see a wheel that is bolted in the P1 section but like the design, we can build it. Something similar in style to what you like would probably be our Floyds or GT style. They are both a standard smooth spoked wheel design.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

…As promised, attached a quick comparison between us and another major brand. Listed is a sample of two wheels. Red indicates an advantage.

We can build just about any style you see in our P1 wheel section for this combo. They all will have bolted centers. If you see a non-bolted style wheel not listed as a bolted style, we can build it.

In synopsis, comparably speaking cost is very close (using summit racing as a pricing source), ours at a slight advantage.

From a weight comparison, ours are lighter giving the user the advantage regarding performance benefits.

Our front wheel tucks in more giving in my opinion a better stance.

We offer customization with the option of many upgrades including bolt-on stems (which are needed for the track), billet caps, a variety of anodized colors including the caps.

We also offer many widths for their setups ranging as small as 3.5" all the way up to 16" (in half inch increments).

wheelczar

Your comparison chart could use a few more crucial items, such as warranty information and load ratings. There is weight differences depending upon back spacing as well. Which back spacing on the 15x10's are you using for comparison? The Weld R/T series comes standard with a billet aluminum cap, in black or polished. The Weld R/T's will also accept a bolt in valve stem. Are the bogarts made with a hot forged center or just a billet machined center? I could not find this information on your web site.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

I welcome continued discussion. Thank you for the response. You're asking for discussion of topics which are far advanced from the general public. It is of little interest to learn about materials or processes to the masses. We can boast about passing an SFI cert etc….throwing out fluff or smoke to an end user that knows little about doesn’t sell a product. We offer benefits and solutions, not features.

End users want to know if they will work for the intended purpose (the design intent). …Which both will. Our wheels are designed for each application. Different shells AND material grades are used in various thickness. We do not blanket build one particular setup. I did not indicate that the competitor’s wheels will not accept bolt in valve stems, I indicated that they do not offer them with the wheel as an option.

Weight differences not only vary with backspace, but it varies with center designs (as you may know). For generalization, and simplification, indicated values were listed for listed backspace and design.

Regarding warranty, I believe I've discussed this previously; we are listing 3 years for these particular builds for their intended purpose. Welds is 1 year from what I read.

Do not mistake my intentions. No where am I stating that the competitor’s product is bad solution. I feel our solution based on a few areas important to the end user is beneficial. For example front backspace or weight differences. Our wheels tuck better, our wheels are lighter. Our products are also customizable too. We are offering a truly custom product at mass produced pricing. I am making comparisons between two products. It’s the end user who needs to make their final decisions as to what to consider.

wheelczar

I disagree with you that the consumer does not want learn more about materials and processes. They want to learn everything they can about any given product. That is a part of what these forums are for. Asking questions, learning more about the vehicles you drive, getting the best for something you have poured hours and hours of blood, sweat and tears into. This information does not have to contain fluff and smoke, but facts that help everyone make an informative and educated buying decision. It only makes sense to help inform the consumer from all angles. The more knowledge you gain the more powerful you become. You never know what information is valuable to one and not to another. So let's provide all we can, then the consumer can make an informed decision about how to spend their money towards their investment and passion.

AjSmoker

sweet

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

I agree to an extent. An educated consumer is the good consumer. Manufactures use various means to an end. Base materials, work-hardening, material process, there could be endless discussions which would not be pertinent to the general end user. The consumer we feel is interested in a solution that meets their goals.

What you're asking for is based on a strong background knowledge of material structure as well as engineering concepts. These processes do not tell one is better or worse than another. Components placed harmoniously together affects individual processes as well. Empirical data testing between two end products, destruction, cyclical testing etc would realistically be needed for the end user to compare based on your discussion …More information that the typical end user looking for a street or strip wheel. I do not see reason why someone would need to know the process of how any product is designed. …Especially to base those processes which they may know little about towards their purchase decision.

I’ve seen some attempt to discuss “benefits” being totally off the mark and clouding end users purchase based on false misconceptions. Take SFI certs for example. Due to advertising techniques and discussion from non-qualified personnel, some consumers now feel SFI certs pertain to street legal drivability or insurance the product is a street-duty component. I’ve seen and read this first hand.

The manufactures design intent is what is most important when a consumer is making a purchase. Once again, specifically towards this discussion thread, both meet street or strip use of which we warranty two years longer than welds. This alone speaks for the products design.

tillery

iTrader: (4)

So you feel we dont need to kno any of these wheels manufacturing prosses? Or material used,forgings or if the rim is heat treated after any welding is done to it? If the roundness is true? I do like Bogarts,, and dont want you to think Im bashing your product. But for what I do my customers ask these questions and more about my coil and pumps/Iron. I wouls like to kno about my rims to. Not that they are just light weight.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Tillery,

Instead of possibly misrepresenting products, discussing areas where one may not specialize in, it’s best to discuss what the customer is looking for and match their goals with their price-range and how the product is going to be used. Leave the design up to the Engineer. Such as the case of confusing customers i.e. SFI example I gave earlier...seemingly a simplistic area of discusses yet so misunderstood.

Neither we nor other manufactures are interested in hiding processes. Though some may be proprietary... it’s important to note what the component design intent is. Telling a customer we heat treat/solution treat, cold forge, hot forge, deep draw, stress relieve, spin form or multiple thickness material used or even as small as using materials with specific certs should have very little to do or will help a customer make a choice between one product and another. Maybe it will make them feel all warm and fuzzy.

When one of your customers purchase a typical street wheel, do they require you discuss with them the wheels design process? I'll assume probably not. About the only process that would be important is what material is used i.e. aluminum or steel. It's important to the end user they have a wheel that fits and looks nice and purchase a product that will perform in the way they intend to use them. For example drag racing, road racing or street racing.

The important basic feature to highlight may be (order varies to customer) cost, what the product is designed for and how it will fit the application. Other areas to discuss would be of course finishing i.e. aluminum, steel, whether it has a protective finish, how to care or maintain a wheel and warranty information. In summary, the four most important areas to most would be fit, finish/style, cost and weight (weight many times is overlooked).

Features, they can be used as a distraction tool as possibly the intent of the initial comment which is why we are even on this topic. They may make them feel all warm and fuzzy because the potential consumer read a name that sounds important.

There are many factors affecting the final results as small as to the profile of material and even the grain flow of the material. What is important is if 10 manufactures design a product, and it’s designed for a specific application...THIS is what would be most important. As my previous discussion regarding wheel designs, you would not tell a customer to use a drag wheel for road racing etc. Maybe a basic discussion would be whether a wheel is cast or other process. Even casting...there’s many cast processes with each their own benefits, it would make most customers head spin (our shells are spun formed among other processes).

If a customer decides they need something to meet X level, leave it up to an engineering team or manufacture to develop what is necessary to meet criteria. For example, we recently build a set of 15x17 drag wheels for a ~1700hp pro-mod car...was it built like we build a set for the LS1 car? NO...they were built to meet its specialized requirements.

The topic has gone quite a bit off course mostly due to me and detailed response. Most probably won't even read my entire comments.

I've highlighted important comparisons that end users look at. Not how they got there. It's a futile discussion to compare a process of one manufacture to another. It may be important to another manufacture to push these features, in the end, it’s not the features that sell its how they will benefit the end user. I feel confident to state that both products I've discussed here meet its design intent rather well.

I've also indicated separately that we feel strong about our product design; we've given it a 3 year warranty for its designed purpose, 2 years longer than a similar competitor’s warranty. Ours is slightly lighter, we have more options and offer customized and personalized service. Price is a wash; it’s a matter of what the consumer wants in their product. We feel our designs due to weight differences will provide better racing results and offer a better solution regarding fitment in the end (the front wheels tuck deeper for example) and give the end user to have a customized piece for their car.

This is not to be construed as a bashing discussion as it certainly is not. It’s a comparison between two products. The consumer will make their decision based on their own wants/needs.