Widest possible square setup for 4th Gen
#1
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Widest possible square setup for 4th Gen
Hey everyone. I've gone from wanting to sell my 93 to wanting to turn it into an autocross car. Therefore, I am going to be ditching the heavy 18" Foose wheels and I am in search of finding the right wheels and tires. I've done a lot of searching, but no clear answers to my need so if anyone can help, I'd really appreciate it.
I am looking to get 18" wheels same width front and rear running same size tire, widest possible. I'm thinking 285 or 295...if someone can get me the specs to fit wider, that would be awesome.
I'd like to stay away from custom rims since my first set will probably get screwed up anyway as I learn so I'd like to go with a cost saving setup at first and as I become a better racer, order better hardware.
Thanks for the help.
-Rich
I am looking to get 18" wheels same width front and rear running same size tire, widest possible. I'm thinking 285 or 295...if someone can get me the specs to fit wider, that would be awesome.
I'd like to stay away from custom rims since my first set will probably get screwed up anyway as I learn so I'd like to go with a cost saving setup at first and as I become a better racer, order better hardware.
Thanks for the help.
-Rich
#2
TECH Senior Member
You can fit 18x11 with 315s on all four corners:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/wheels-ti...8x11-pics.html
If you want to go cheaper then 17x11s will fit as well, with 315/35/17 tires on, this is more common.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/wheels-ti...8x11-pics.html
If you want to go cheaper then 17x11s will fit as well, with 315/35/17 tires on, this is more common.
#4
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
You can fit 18x11 with 315s on all four corners:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/wheels-ti...8x11-pics.html
If you want to go cheaper then 17x11s will fit as well, with 315/35/17 tires on, this is more common.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/wheels-ti...8x11-pics.html
If you want to go cheaper then 17x11s will fit as well, with 315/35/17 tires on, this is more common.
I was originally going to go with 17's but there are very limited tire options in that size.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/road-raci...-practice.html
Also for more info head over to FRRAX, here's a snippit of info regarding bigger tires:
In the quest to go faster many of us have already fit bigger rubber under our cars.
Yet I see many times that some of the new folks still need the info necessary to make them fit........So here it is.
****************************
General offset info.
The offset that most are using is a 50mm offset. This of course being the Corvette Grand Sport offset rear wheel, and the replicas of. This is close to ideal for the Camaro and Firebird.
36mm Is the Corvette ZR1 offset rear wheel, and replicas of. It has a little less offset and spaces the wheel out further. The 36mm offset is probably the best choice for the Firebird body, which is wider in the rear, and also apparently in the front. This offset eliminates the need for any spacers.
See the car specific section for more info.
*********************************
First off the front hubs, and rear axles (possibly) need to be pulled off/out to change the wheel studs.
Longer studs will enable you to use spacers where necessary, and are a nice strength upgrade.
ARP sells the necessary studs specifically for the Camaro/Firebird/Corvette They are both longer, and threaded all the way to the end. 12mmx1.5".59 knurl. They are a heat treated 8740 chromemoly, tensile strength 190,000 psi.
The front hub's studs are easiest to change in a small press. It doesn't take a lot of pressure, and once the hubs are out, the whole process takes 5 minutes.
The rear axles on non traction controlled cars are best to just be pulled. Just be carefull with the bolt holding in the crosspin on your T2R, it's easy to bugger up the head. Beyond that, same deal, 5 minutes.
I'll add TCS info later....
************************
Body mods...Rear
It's required that the rear fender lip be rolled. This will prevent any damage to expensive race tires. There are many ways of accomplishing this, including carefull work with a BIG hammer.
There will also be a place in the rear fender area that needs to be beat in with a BIG hammer. I've heard it's possible to damage the rear seat post area inside the car so be sure the seat is UP before using the big hammer.
Once the wheel/tire combo is in place you will see the spot. You'll also probably need to "re-adjust" the fender after the first few runs, so be sure to bring a hammer with you to the first event.
Body mods front.......
The front will require very little work. Directly above the tire, in the 12o'clock position is the only place needing attention. A strip of plastic liner needs to be removed, sized 2"x8". This will right next to the outer fender lip. Directly above this area (it will be visable once the plastic liner is removed) is a thin metal lip. Once the plastic wears through, this lip can cut your front tires. A small hammer is used to beat the lip outwards and flatten it out. Easy. Done.
************************
Suspension mods......
#1 Suspension mod will be a rod end panhard rod. The rods with poly at one end or both, allow to much flexing. This will do TWO things. One is prevent ANY deflection in the PHR, and two, is allow perfect placement of the rear axle.
The rear axle needs to centered in the car perfectly. Sort of. GM build quality leaves a bit to be desired so I think it's best to adjust the axle to prevent rubbing. Whatever that means on YOUR car. For instance my car needed to be adjusted to prevent rubbing on the outer fender lip. So I adjusted accordingly. Other cars have more room here, and less on the inside.
Also keep in mind that a stock car will encounter more rubbing than a "setup" car. Larger front and rear swaybars, stiffer springs, and stiffer bushings will contribute to less tire rub.
********************************
Car specific, and other important tidbits......
Camaro. A 50mm offset wheel is probably the best compromise. This wheel offset requires a spacer up front, to move the wheel lip away from the bump on the spindle. In back the 50mm offset can be used without a spacer. Or a VERY thin one (3rd Gen IROC 1/8" spacer)
There isn't a way to get the ideal offset for the Camaro. Custom wheels are an option and can eliminate the use of spacers. However, to have the ideal offset front and back, requires the use of different front and rear offsets and prevents rotating.
Firebird. The ideal offset here is the 36mm. It fits on front and back and requires NO spacers. This could reduce costs in parts and labor as you could continue to use the stock wheel studs. This wheel offset also prevents rubbing on the inside, while there is room on the outside. AND allows rotating.
Different wheels can, and will, have more room. Even in the same size/offset. For instance the cast wheels available have a thick squared off flange at the wheel lip area. It's a necessary design feature for integrity purposes. However, a custom built forged wheel will have more room in this area, and won't require as large a spacer.
Another important note is ACTUAL tire width. If you fit your car to a set of Kumho Ecsta V700's you will have less room if you switch to Kumho V710's, for example.....Break out the hammer again....
Another subject I had't touched on is the "bumpstop issue" in the rear of the car. It isn't one IMO, and I use stock bumpstops in the stock location. The rear wheels won't go into "full droop" because the bumpstop catches the inner wheel lip. Some have trimmed their stops or removed them. All of which alters the function. I beleive this isn't a big deal simply because the only reason for letting the wheels hang is to remove the springs. In which case the wheels would probably come off anyhow. The choice is yours. The bumpstop will hit the wheel.
I think that covers most everything. I will lock the thread and sticky it
for future reference. If you have other info to add please PM me, and I'll add it.
Yet I see many times that some of the new folks still need the info necessary to make them fit........So here it is.
****************************
General offset info.
The offset that most are using is a 50mm offset. This of course being the Corvette Grand Sport offset rear wheel, and the replicas of. This is close to ideal for the Camaro and Firebird.
36mm Is the Corvette ZR1 offset rear wheel, and replicas of. It has a little less offset and spaces the wheel out further. The 36mm offset is probably the best choice for the Firebird body, which is wider in the rear, and also apparently in the front. This offset eliminates the need for any spacers.
See the car specific section for more info.
*********************************
First off the front hubs, and rear axles (possibly) need to be pulled off/out to change the wheel studs.
Longer studs will enable you to use spacers where necessary, and are a nice strength upgrade.
ARP sells the necessary studs specifically for the Camaro/Firebird/Corvette They are both longer, and threaded all the way to the end. 12mmx1.5".59 knurl. They are a heat treated 8740 chromemoly, tensile strength 190,000 psi.
The front hub's studs are easiest to change in a small press. It doesn't take a lot of pressure, and once the hubs are out, the whole process takes 5 minutes.
The rear axles on non traction controlled cars are best to just be pulled. Just be carefull with the bolt holding in the crosspin on your T2R, it's easy to bugger up the head. Beyond that, same deal, 5 minutes.
I'll add TCS info later....
************************
Body mods...Rear
It's required that the rear fender lip be rolled. This will prevent any damage to expensive race tires. There are many ways of accomplishing this, including carefull work with a BIG hammer.
There will also be a place in the rear fender area that needs to be beat in with a BIG hammer. I've heard it's possible to damage the rear seat post area inside the car so be sure the seat is UP before using the big hammer.
Once the wheel/tire combo is in place you will see the spot. You'll also probably need to "re-adjust" the fender after the first few runs, so be sure to bring a hammer with you to the first event.
Body mods front.......
The front will require very little work. Directly above the tire, in the 12o'clock position is the only place needing attention. A strip of plastic liner needs to be removed, sized 2"x8". This will right next to the outer fender lip. Directly above this area (it will be visable once the plastic liner is removed) is a thin metal lip. Once the plastic wears through, this lip can cut your front tires. A small hammer is used to beat the lip outwards and flatten it out. Easy. Done.
************************
Suspension mods......
#1 Suspension mod will be a rod end panhard rod. The rods with poly at one end or both, allow to much flexing. This will do TWO things. One is prevent ANY deflection in the PHR, and two, is allow perfect placement of the rear axle.
The rear axle needs to centered in the car perfectly. Sort of. GM build quality leaves a bit to be desired so I think it's best to adjust the axle to prevent rubbing. Whatever that means on YOUR car. For instance my car needed to be adjusted to prevent rubbing on the outer fender lip. So I adjusted accordingly. Other cars have more room here, and less on the inside.
Also keep in mind that a stock car will encounter more rubbing than a "setup" car. Larger front and rear swaybars, stiffer springs, and stiffer bushings will contribute to less tire rub.
********************************
Car specific, and other important tidbits......
Camaro. A 50mm offset wheel is probably the best compromise. This wheel offset requires a spacer up front, to move the wheel lip away from the bump on the spindle. In back the 50mm offset can be used without a spacer. Or a VERY thin one (3rd Gen IROC 1/8" spacer)
There isn't a way to get the ideal offset for the Camaro. Custom wheels are an option and can eliminate the use of spacers. However, to have the ideal offset front and back, requires the use of different front and rear offsets and prevents rotating.
Firebird. The ideal offset here is the 36mm. It fits on front and back and requires NO spacers. This could reduce costs in parts and labor as you could continue to use the stock wheel studs. This wheel offset also prevents rubbing on the inside, while there is room on the outside. AND allows rotating.
Different wheels can, and will, have more room. Even in the same size/offset. For instance the cast wheels available have a thick squared off flange at the wheel lip area. It's a necessary design feature for integrity purposes. However, a custom built forged wheel will have more room in this area, and won't require as large a spacer.
Another important note is ACTUAL tire width. If you fit your car to a set of Kumho Ecsta V700's you will have less room if you switch to Kumho V710's, for example.....Break out the hammer again....
Another subject I had't touched on is the "bumpstop issue" in the rear of the car. It isn't one IMO, and I use stock bumpstops in the stock location. The rear wheels won't go into "full droop" because the bumpstop catches the inner wheel lip. Some have trimmed their stops or removed them. All of which alters the function. I beleive this isn't a big deal simply because the only reason for letting the wheels hang is to remove the springs. In which case the wheels would probably come off anyhow. The choice is yours. The bumpstop will hit the wheel.
I think that covers most everything. I will lock the thread and sticky it
for future reference. If you have other info to add please PM me, and I'll add it.
The following users liked this post:
omahnc (07-16-2020)
#5
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is all so helpful. Eventually I will go with the R888 tires, but for now I'm going budget wheels and tires because I know I will mess this first set up somehow, I don't want to cry when I understeer into something or oversteer into something else. Once I get a better handle on racing the car, I'll go with nice forgeline wheels and toyo rubber.
Nice ride
I was originally going to go with 17's but there are very limited tire options in that size.
Bigger tires is definitely one of the best handling mods you can do. I just got back from my first autocross after installing 315 R888's on all four corners and my big, heavy, solid rear axle muscle car was mixing it up with turbo miatas and S2000's
https://ls1tech.com/forums/road-raci...-practice.html
Also for more info head over to FRRAX, here's a snippit of info regarding bigger tires:
I was originally going to go with 17's but there are very limited tire options in that size.
Bigger tires is definitely one of the best handling mods you can do. I just got back from my first autocross after installing 315 R888's on all four corners and my big, heavy, solid rear axle muscle car was mixing it up with turbo miatas and S2000's
https://ls1tech.com/forums/road-raci...-practice.html
Also for more info head over to FRRAX, here's a snippit of info regarding bigger tires:
#7
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trending Topics
#8
They seem OK. Never heard of a failure on a car that is 90% street and 10% autocross. I wouldn't run them on a dedicated track car with very sticky tires that sees high G's in corners.
#9
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I plan on running Nitto NT05 tires, not the stickiest tires, but should be decent for me as a beginner. Like I said, as I get better, I fully plan on getting a set of forgeline wheels and some R888 tires. Just don't want to break the bank on my first set that I'll probably ruin at some point. Then I'd really kick myself.
Thanks for the reply btw. I appreciate it.
Thanks for the reply btw. I appreciate it.
#10
No problem. If you want to go even cheaper, find some Camaro SS wheels 17x9.5 You can put 275/47/17's on them and get your feet wet.
If you keep them in decent shape, you could sell them fro what you bought them for then get into some more expensive 18's. Also, look into the NT01's as well.
If you keep them in decent shape, you could sell them fro what you bought them for then get into some more expensive 18's. Also, look into the NT01's as well.
Last edited by smitty2919; 08-09-2016 at 08:16 AM.
#11
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
I would suggest finding a set of 18x10.5 c5z wheels and put a 295/35 tire on them. you can find those fairly cheap and I know there are a couple guys running that setup on here. I have 18x10.5 Weld RTS's with 295/35 NT05's and love the setup. tons of front end grip although my only experience is on the street so far, haven't made it out to any track days yet. but I do push it pretty hard on the street and have yet to find the limit of the car. either way, the square setup is the way to go on the cars for handling purposes so you are on the right track there
#12
TECH Enthusiast
I would suggest finding a set of 18x10.5 c5z wheels and put a 295/35 tire on them. you can find those fairly cheap and I know there are a couple guys running that setup on here. I have 18x10.5 Weld RTS's with 295/35 NT05's and love the setup. tons of front end grip although my only experience is on the street so far, haven't made it out to any track days yet. but I do push it pretty hard on the street and have yet to find the limit of the car. either way, the square setup is the way to go on the cars for handling purposes so you are on the right track there
I run 285's on my setup
#14
Teching In
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: bay area, CA
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey everyone. I've gone from wanting to sell my 93 to wanting to turn it into an autocross car. Therefore, I am going to be ditching the heavy 18" Foose wheels and I am in search of finding the right wheels and tires. I've done a lot of searching, but no clear answers to my need so if anyone can help, I'd really appreciate it.
I am looking to get 18" wheels same width front and rear running same size tire, widest possible. I'm thinking 285 or 295...if someone can get me the specs to fit wider, that would be awesome.
I'd like to stay away from custom rims since my first set will probably get screwed up anyway as I learn so I'd like to go with a cost saving setup at first and as I become a better racer, order better hardware.
Thanks for the help.
-Rich
I am looking to get 18" wheels same width front and rear running same size tire, widest possible. I'm thinking 285 or 295...if someone can get me the specs to fit wider, that would be awesome.
I'd like to stay away from custom rims since my first set will probably get screwed up anyway as I learn so I'd like to go with a cost saving setup at first and as I become a better racer, order better hardware.
Thanks for the help.
-Rich
I'm running speedline z06 c5s 10.5s all around. I'm fitting 285s on all 4s. Seems to have just the right enough space and grip for what I need.
#15
TECH Enthusiast
#16
TECH Enthusiast
-buy OEM style, replacement hubs... which fail constantly
-buy corvette hub adapters for $475/pair , then run SKF corvette racing hubs $380/ea. http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.p...0&#entry187890
-buy Hoosier's hub $700/ea. http://hoosierpe.com/tech-info/4th-g...-hub-assembly/
#17
Do yourself a favor, get a PS cooler (BlainFabrication kit using B&M stacked plate cooler is a great solution) installed and put in some Redline PS fluid to get a jump on saving the PS pump.
If you run in hot weather, make sure your cooling system is up to snuff. I quickly found my radiator was slowly getting clogged and causing 230+* coolant temps (thank dog for reverse cooling systems).