JDP

iTrader: (21)

when i do get wheels for my car i want bogarts, seen an 03 cobra with some D10s on it at the track and looks sick.

when i say i want a wheel to drive on the street, i am not talking about handling purposes and what not. my car is just a weekend warrior, i drive my car to the track and out to the local hangouts, and some racing on the weekend (not at the track). ive heard people say they wouldnt drive these wheels on the street at all, because some people have damaged them, i want the best drag wheel i can get, but i dont want to have to worry about some street driving, like ive said, its not a DD and im not driving like Juan Montoya or anything.

just wondering how many people drive there bogarts on the street and havnt had any problems or worries.

i am all for saving weight, especially rotating mass, and bogarts are the best of the best for f-bodies, mainly cause they are fit to each persons car.

ABA383

iTrader: (1)

I've been running my welded R/Ts for 2 years now and they look/fit great (see sig pix). If you want a race wheel that you can just bolt on and go, Bogarts are the way to go...

--Alan

Leedogg

iTrader: (2)

Alan- how many miles a year would you say you drive on the street? very curious in the bogarts. What size ar yours? and they were a straight bolt on? no grinding at all? I prolly drive my car 4-5,000 miles a year now-a-days, wondering if I could get away with running these full time.

ss2000

iTrader: (45)

I have the bogart ss' rims and I couldn't be happier. Steve was more than helpful setting me up. I need to get better pics up here, as I rarely see another with the same rims I have.

ABA383

iTrader: (1)

I drive about 4-5000 miles a year on them...I am very careful about pot holes, taking off ramps too fast, nice weather, etc...They are 15x4s and 15x10s ( I think they are actually 9 3/4). They are a true bolt on with zero mods...which was a major selling point for me...

--Alan

Leedogg

iTrader: (2)

Thanks man!

Lythropus

iTrader: (13)

I wanted to bump this thread to ask sjm a specific question. Since these wheels are clearly not made to take a corner and failures have happened on the street, It makes me wonder what's going to happen the first time my car gets sideways at 100 plus on the dragstrip and while trying to correct your wheel seperates and sends me into the wall. This maybe just be me being paranoid, but at that moment I'm really going to be thinking hard about saving those couple of pounds...

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

I think if you're going sideways at 100mph, the least of your worries will be drag wheels. I think you'll have a hard time having any wheel street or drag wheel lasting at those speeds. Why would you be concerned with a wheel seperating??

The Bogart design setups are not new and have been around for 25 plus years.

ABA383

iTrader: (1)

I do have to add that one of my welded r/t fronts separated at 20 mph on a straight spot on a smoothly paved area I frequent to test my launches...Not real happy that a $350 wheel separated at the seam all the way around on the inside...Just looking at the design it would appear that if they were welded all the way around that seam like a similar Billet Specialties wheel that the problem would be solved...Both fronts have been sent back to Bogart to see what upgrades for strength can be done...Until that happens I will not run them on my car...I hope they will figure something out...I'll add a few pounds to make sure this never happens again...

--Alan

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

There's always more to a story. You'd be about the 20th person then I know of who has damaged a wheel in over 12 years of history. Digging further into your situation, you were using 165 radials which you should not be using. They overstress the shells; those tires are neither load rated nor speed rated for your car. They are also wide of a tire to be using on a skinny wheel. From what I've researched you've been using them this way for over two years. I'm surprised they lasted this long.

Not that I like to see any failures by any means, but things to break, especially when you use something as it wasn't intended or use tires that are not rated correctly.

I see wheels for sale like from F-bodies as well as others with VW radial tires. For the others...IF you see a setup using these types of tires on the wheel, I'd advised to stay clear of considering purchasing those wheels. Bias ply tires should be used on these front runners. There is no radial that is speed rated, load-rated nor sized correctly for the skinnies anyways...There are other manufactures who highly suggest not using radials on their front drag wheels as well. We are not alone.

Did you purchase them new? What tire pressures were you using? Typically most of the VW guys even overinflate the tires to 50+psi's even though I believe those tires are rated far less...let alone using them on a setup that it is not designed for. Though you may not feel comfortable with your wheels, you should realize that the damaged incurred was more than likely from the tires you used and possibly your driving habits.

Even though you used the wheels for over two years and used them with inappropriate tires/configuration...We do want you to realize that your wheels are being taken care of and you will be able to sell your car as you appear to be considering.

Alan, please don’t read the above comments as a slap in the face to you or putting you in a bad light at all...I recognize your screen name for some reason, I'm sure you're a very nice person. I want others to realize that there is always more to a story then just hearing someone state they broke something without knowing why it probably happened. Just like the above happens, take a vendor who builds an engine N/A then the customer sprays a 200shot. The outcome is obvious. The engine will fail. This is when a possibly unknowing customer didn't realize what they did was not a good idea when the engine wasn't built for what stress level was placed on it.

If I am incorrect in any of my data, please correct me and let me know.

For the record, the wheels you're comparing was a two piece wheel, our Bogart design is a three piece wheel whereas is IS welded fully around the wheel on a positioner and timed.

ABA383

iTrader: (1)

Hey I appreciate the response and was not trying to bad mouth the wheels...FWIW I am not selling the car at all I just want to not have to worry about broken wheels...I believe that if I spend $350/wheel that they should not break no matter what tire is run on them...I have been racing for over 20 years and have never broken any wheel ever and would expect the Bogarts to hold up better than the cheaper Welds/Centerlines I am used to running. I understand that there is extra stress on the wheels when you run radial fronts, but I am not a big fan of mixing bias and radials under any circumstances as the handling is very unpredictable even with the skinnies being the bias and the radials in the rear...I also have never run more than 42 psi in the fronts...I have looked into the new M/T SR radials because I understand that the sidewalls are stiffer than the regular 165 radials but the load rating on the M/Ts is only 990 lb/tire which is less than the 165s I was using...So I was a bit apprehensive about them...

I think I speak for a lot of us when I say that I wouldnt mind adding a few pounds to the fronts if it meant that I wouldnt have to worry about breakage...Like I said above I am no engineer, but it looked like if the inner/outer wheel had a continous weld all the way around that the wheel would not have broken...

Again, I am not knocking the wheels, company, etc...I just feel that for $1400/set they should be plenty strong, durable, and worry free...

Thanks for your attention...

--Alan

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Alan,

I'm happy to respond and help you. I know you weren’t bad mouthing anything. My comments were to explain what/why/how this was occurring. Especially for others as they read something, this is how rumors start. As you can see, we have VERY few people out of the thousands built that have had problems for one reason or another. No one likes a component failure, but with the nature of usage, things do happen especially if the part is used not as it was intended. For the most part, those problems were from improper usage or wrecking the car. I want others as well to understand what to use/not use regarding the front runners. Recently, we have another person in the same boat as you who was using the same tire which he shouldn’t have.

More expensive doesn't mean stronger or weaker. It is the process and materials that go into the production that effects price. Regardless of the drag wheels you use, that radial tire should not be used. As mentioned, other manufactures will warn you just the same about those tires and ultimately stress/damage the wheel. I could build you a 15000.00 engine which is may be more expensive than another engine built…but that doesn’t make it stronger; it needs to be used in the manor it was built. Even something as simple as if the engine was built 93 octane and you preferred to use 87 octane, the engine won’t last or perform well.

Your wheels are welded completely around the area that you pulled apart. The tires you're using are designed for a 5-6" wheel. Stuffing it on a small 3.5-4" wheel places additional stress on the shells. Compounded by the very stiff sidewall transferring energy into the shells creates problems. I can say with certainty, if you continue to use those tires, you will break the wheels again. From the history we have, just about every one of those customers I mentioned were from either a) wrecking the car or b) using those radials. This is direct history from F-bodies alone.

The wheels have a very long history of over 20 years...You just need to use the correct tires for the application and use the wheels as they were intended and they will last for years and years and be worry free.

Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with. I am here to assist you and others with questions or concerns with any of our products.

LS1SpeedAddict

iTrader: (9)

I used to run the same tires as Alan for a while then I switched to M/T Sportsman S/R 26/6.00 R 15s last year. Are those good tires to be using?

lt1noob

iTrader: (4)

if my car ever becomes a track car, bogarts it is for sure. always loved these wheels.

1FasstWS6

iTrader: (3)

are there anymore pics of these? I really like them, and im trying to decide on some new tracks rims.

Jeremiah

iTrader: (5)

My personal experience with SJM has been great, the tech advise and customer service is top notch. If only all business transactions were this smooth.

ABA383

iTrader: (1)

So what radial can I use on the fronts to keep this from happening as its not an issue with Centerlines or the Welds I have used in the past...Im not being a jerk, but I can sell the Bogarts and buy Welds again, have no worries about breakage and have money in my pocket...I love the Bogarts but I seem to be between a rock and a hard place...Im not going to run a bias ply front tire and radial rears...The Welds and Centerlines seem to handle the 165 radials with no problems...

...and can you please email me or PM me about what its going to cost me to get a new wheel and if there is a way to make them stronger and how much will that cost if that is an option...Thanks...

--Alan

alabrams@comcast.net

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Alan,

I understand your concerns. I know you're not trying to be difficult in any way shape or form. I believe centerline states not to use a radial tire on their front runner. I recall they have a disclaimer or something to that extent. I have no part in manufacturing of those components. Maybe speaking to one of the engineers may help you more. Regarding specifications. I'd suggest that if you do speak to them; make it clear if they are not familiar with the tires that you're using, they are not designed for the narrow wheels that you're using them on.

There should be little concern running the radial rear and bias ply front skinny tire. Weld and centerline wheels both have/do crack and break. I don't feel you would be any safer using another brands drag wheel. There are members who have had damages occur who can attest. Tony the board administrator had both of his prostars crack. He luckily noticed it I believe when he was losing tire pressure in one of them. Our Bogart P1 wheels are actually very strong the years of history proves it.

If you insist on using those radials due to the fact for tighter steering on the street, recall, NO drag wheel manufactures wheel is safe for street use period. This is why they have in large stampings "For drag use only" on the wheels. Using them on the street while they are not designed for such stress and using the stiff radial is an accident waiting to happen.

I'd suggest that one of the concerns you may be overlooking (take the wheel completely out of the picture) is the fact that radial tire you're using is completely unsafe for your car and does not meet any of the criteria to be using it on the street OR the track. They really are a very poor tire to consider. Looking at the specs/ratings, they are based on the tire at normal pressures and normal temperature ranges. Put additional pressure into the tire, run it at various temperature ranges on a vehicle that is run at MUCH higher speeds then it is rated, just about all of those tire ratings that you may have seen or read can be thrown out the door. That in itself is something to really look hard into. So even if you purchased a wheel that was guaranteed to never break no matter what tire you put on it...the tire you're using should be of great concern.

If you want to use radials on the front for stiffness on the street, I'd suggest just moving to a regular good old fashion street approved regular wheel. Forget about running a skinny wheel at all. A skinny wheel/tire combo inherently will handle terrible on the street with braking impaired substantially.

I don't believe MT has any type of skinny radial tire that is designed to run on your car (assuming your weight is in the typical F-body range). You'd need to speak to one of their engineers to verify this. Once again, I do not have any part in their manufacturing processes either.

In regards to PM's we do not use them on the boards. I think we really should talk on the phone as it would be easier to communicate and discuss any options you may have. I wanted to at least address some of your concerns and comments in the public forum so that others can read it and help them make wheel/tire choices more effectively. No drag wheel setup is going to last forever or not fail. No manufacture likes to see their components break. It is no different for us. It is important to realize though when a component is used against a manufactures suggested usage, damages can occur quicker or easier.

If you'd like, you can shoot me an e-mail with your phone number and I'll be happy to call you on my dime.

NOSJNKY

iTrader: (1)

Been running Bogarts for years with no issues,minimal street driving though. My most recent setup is the GT wheels with recessed lug holes, fit absolutely perfect. Brakes clear by a mile!